What is the best technic on getting the bubles out of epoxy
- Thread starter mortuarymike-nv
- Start date
I have tried another brand of Eat A Bubble. The problem with EAB is if you are spraying it on to pop the bubbles in a cue it pops them fine, but does not thin the epoxy like the torch does and it leaves a crater where it pops the larger bubbles. So I found the torch to be much better on the Cue Cote anyway. Nothing made System Three work right for me as a finish coat. The easiest way to get a finish for me is to seal the cue with a thin coat of five minute. Then use a flow out coat the next day of Cue Cote and pop the bubbles with a torch. If the cue was sealed good you get no more bubbles after popping them with the torch. If the cue is not sealed good the wood often gives gas bubbles.
Interesting. I had no idea my industrial heat gun produces CO2 gases, but then I didn't bother to Google the concept - just used it in my work for a few decades.
TW
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bubbles
I was posting info that I had found through my research, you said the hot air or a flame caused a vacuum and that's what popped the bubbles, what I had looked up said it was the CO2.
You never came straight out and said heat gun until now.
I was posting info that I had found through my research, you said the hot air or a flame caused a vacuum and that's what popped the bubbles, what I had looked up said it was the CO2.
You never came straight out and said heat gun until now.
Hi,
A lot of good info here for sure.
I don't think we would be having this discussion if it were summer.
When I started making cues in the back rooms of my billiards cafe I was only doing about 10 cues per year. The building was 11000 sq feet and had 3 zone heating.
In the winter my back rooms were only about 65 degrees.
I had problems with the bubbles and the creators after sanding but on some cues they were fine. Then I put two and two together and realized it was happening only when it was cold. Since it was too expensive to heat the back rooms just to coat a cue, I build a box with light bulbs that fit over my wood lathe and put a thermostat to 85 degrees. Bubbles gone, Poof!!!
Today my 800 sq ft shop has a Huge heater that is way too big for the area. I keep it at 70 all the time but before I apply epoxy I crank the room up to 80 plus and make sure the cue is warm also.
The bubble problem that gave me so many sleepless nights is just a faded memory.
80 degrees is the ticket.
JMO,
Rick
A lot of good info here for sure.
I don't think we would be having this discussion if it were summer.
When I started making cues in the back rooms of my billiards cafe I was only doing about 10 cues per year. The building was 11000 sq feet and had 3 zone heating.
In the winter my back rooms were only about 65 degrees.
I had problems with the bubbles and the creators after sanding but on some cues they were fine. Then I put two and two together and realized it was happening only when it was cold. Since it was too expensive to heat the back rooms just to coat a cue, I build a box with light bulbs that fit over my wood lathe and put a thermostat to 85 degrees. Bubbles gone, Poof!!!
Today my 800 sq ft shop has a Huge heater that is way too big for the area. I keep it at 70 all the time but before I apply epoxy I crank the room up to 80 plus and make sure the cue is warm also.
The bubble problem that gave me so many sleepless nights is just a faded memory.
80 degrees is the ticket.
JMO,
Rick
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Warm the cue up first before applying a seal coat. Warm up the seal coat a little also. As the cue is cooling down apply the seal coat . Do the same with you finish also. I use 207 for this. It works good. No bubbles not even in purple heart. Let it set overnight Wet sand and begin finish work the same way. The biggest cause that I have found in the temperature of the cue being to low .
Nor did I specify the brand of heat gun, if that makes any difference to your research.
What I did say was:
TW said:
The operative word being "or" [emphasis added]. In any event, I still find it interesting that it's the production of CO2 which pops bubbles in epoxy, and not the
1) lowered viscosity caused by heat (alone), and
2) lower air pressure above the surface, caused by both heat and the increased air velocity across the surface (the "Bernoulli principle").
Well you learn something new every day... or I guess I should say I learn something new everyday.
On a related note, I've noticed that air coming out of my shop-air hose, directed across the surface of a mixing cup of epoxy, will also pull bubbles up to the surface - where they then "pop". I always thought that was solely due to the Bernoulli principle; you don't suppose my air compressor is pumping out CO2 too... do you?
TW
I don't know what the compressors put out, but I was told that the air could be deadly if you breathe enough of it.
Especially under increased pressure, such as when diving. The cause is "chemical pneumonia" - apparently our lungs don't like a concentration of the oils typically found in most air compressor output.
Diving compressors and other mechanical breathable-air suppliers use "oilless" processes that include rotating solid graphite vanes and sophisticated filters to ensure nothing but "pure air" (so to speak) gets through.
TW
Thanks for the information. I have never dived but love to snorkel.
Bubbles
I am trying to learn how to do the best possible job I can on do a clear hard finish on pool cues and some of the other products I make.
I thank you for all the good info you have tried to teach me but honestly I hope you could ease up a little on some of the sarcastic remarks.
There shouldn't be a problem discussing different technics or different thoughts on how to achieve the same results, or what does really cause the bubbles to pop when using a torch or a heat gun. or acetone or bubbles be gone in a spray bottle.
I see no need into be little anyone or make any kind of sarcastic remark for trying to understand exactly what does make the bubbles pop and what are the different technics that are used to accomplish that.
It seems room temp , cue temp and epoxy temp is extremely important.
I have some butane torches but no heat gun.
The heat gun sound safer but I wonder about dust that is in the air being blown around the wet epoxy drying on the cue..
I have major dust problems here in Northern Nevada along with major temp changes.
I also have a vacuum pump for ac units, why could I not put the mixed epoxy in a vessel that I could pull a vacuum on and actually suck the bubble out of the epoxy before its applied to the pool cue ?
But I will make room or shop temp my main concern and will have a torch to remove the bubbles .
Thank you for sharing your knowledge , just wished you could of said it in more of a harmonious manner because your smart ass remarks were un called for...
I am trying to learn how to do the best possible job I can on do a clear hard finish on pool cues and some of the other products I make.
I thank you for all the good info you have tried to teach me but honestly I hope you could ease up a little on some of the sarcastic remarks.
There shouldn't be a problem discussing different technics or different thoughts on how to achieve the same results, or what does really cause the bubbles to pop when using a torch or a heat gun. or acetone or bubbles be gone in a spray bottle.
I see no need into be little anyone or make any kind of sarcastic remark for trying to understand exactly what does make the bubbles pop and what are the different technics that are used to accomplish that.
It seems room temp , cue temp and epoxy temp is extremely important.
I have some butane torches but no heat gun.
The heat gun sound safer but I wonder about dust that is in the air being blown around the wet epoxy drying on the cue..
I have major dust problems here in Northern Nevada along with major temp changes.
I also have a vacuum pump for ac units, why could I not put the mixed epoxy in a vessel that I could pull a vacuum on and actually suck the bubble out of the epoxy before its applied to the pool cue ?
But I will make room or shop temp my main concern and will have a torch to remove the bubbles .
Thank you for sharing your knowledge , just wished you could of said it in more of a harmonious manner because your smart ass remarks were un called for...
Compressor Comment:
Actually diving compressors typically are reciprocating units that are splash lubed with special wiping rings on the pistons. They are also typically 2 stage units which processes the air better and the general 30 weight "non detergent oil" used in most shop compressors is replaced with a synthetic oil called Monolic.
If a discharge valve on a compressor sticks for example, the unit overheats and at about 450 degrees carbon based compressor oils will flash and you with be breathing Carbon Monoxide. No good!
Special Multiple Filters are used to pick up any small amount of residual oil and contaminants that passes the piston rings. Without the filter systems, any oil that you may breath is very harmful to your lungs and causes a pulmonary pneumonia and lung damage from oil is irreversible.
Quincy Compressors are the nuts!
Actually diving compressors typically are reciprocating units that are splash lubed with special wiping rings on the pistons. They are also typically 2 stage units which processes the air better and the general 30 weight "non detergent oil" used in most shop compressors is replaced with a synthetic oil called Monolic.
If a discharge valve on a compressor sticks for example, the unit overheats and at about 450 degrees carbon based compressor oils will flash and you with be breathing Carbon Monoxide. No good!
Special Multiple Filters are used to pick up any small amount of residual oil and contaminants that passes the piston rings. Without the filter systems, any oil that you may breath is very harmful to your lungs and causes a pulmonary pneumonia and lung damage from oil is irreversible.
Quincy Compressors are the nuts!
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Mike,
You'll find the 207 a bit more cooperative but you still need a warm, clean environment for most finishes. As far as i can tell the bubbles are secondary to the rest of your problems since they'll just be replaced by dust particles.
Air filtration system, maybe a fan blowing air across the turning cue. Is not a complicated process requiring all kinds of special techniques and tools.
Mario
I wrote:
You quoted me, and responded with:
Now, the same free thinking that allows you to interpret my responses as "sarcastic" entitles ME to interpret your precvious response as a challenge. And clearly you care an awful lot about is being "right". Well, maybe you're right... and maybe you're not. But if you ARE right then your challenge ought to be able to stand up to a few counterpoints, such as "does that mean my heat-gun produces CO2?" or "does that also mean my air compressor produces CO2?"
What you see as "sarcastic" I see as kind of humorous and, frankly, pretty gentle. I wonder if you would have preferred an in-your-face challenge back such as "Oh yeah, well how do your explain...?" or "Are you able to understand the difference between physics, which is what I am talking about, and chemistry, which is what you are talking about?"
Would you have found responses such as those less offensive? Or are you kind of looking to be offended by any response that doesn't agree with you - especially if it's coming from me?
Simply put, you may be right about the chemistry of CO2 helping to draw bubbles out, and I may be right about creating a low pressure zone through heat and/or directed air flow - because there is plenty of room for both arguments since they address two different scientific fields (chemistry and physics). So we can both be right, and if you can bring yourself to be not so thin skinned about what you perceive to be "sarcastic", then maybe I can bring myself to not be so quick to jump up to meet what I perceive to be a direct "challenge".
Whataya think? Maybe dwell more on the subject at hand and less on criticizing (and even insulting) the way some one else chooses to present their viewpoint?
TW
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JC
Coos Cues
Murray Gell-Mann who discovered the quark observed that the difference between those who understand quantum physics and those who do not is like the difference between humans and lower primates. Wood working is not quantum physics so stop acting like monkeys. What works and what doesn't is sufficient.
JC
JC
Bubbles
Thank you for your all your input, I actually learned something from me challenging your technic of hot air from a heat gun and why does it burst bubbles.
If its low pressure over the wet epoxy then I would think a shop vac would do the same thing ?
It might be a worthy of testing your theory....................of low pressure bubble busting
Sorry that me posting info about co2 also pops the bubbles to would be so upsetting to you.
I posted that info because I thought it was a technic that I would consider using and it would be good information to know even if it didn't co inside with you theory of the low pressure pops the bubbles and not co2.
in your post you made it sound like it was only the low pressure that popped the bubbles when using hot air and or a torch.
When I said I had found other info that they thought co2 contributed to popping the bubbles to you took it personal when it was just more information.
Personally speaking I don't take popping bubble personal.
I just want to put the best finish I possibly can on my work..............
I don't wish to argue over bubbles, if we have too then I will not post my questions in here any more
Thank you for your all your input, I actually learned something from me challenging your technic of hot air from a heat gun and why does it burst bubbles.
If its low pressure over the wet epoxy then I would think a shop vac would do the same thing ?
It might be a worthy of testing your theory....................of low pressure bubble busting
Sorry that me posting info about co2 also pops the bubbles to would be so upsetting to you.
I posted that info because I thought it was a technic that I would consider using and it would be good information to know even if it didn't co inside with you theory of the low pressure pops the bubbles and not co2.
in your post you made it sound like it was only the low pressure that popped the bubbles when using hot air and or a torch.
When I said I had found other info that they thought co2 contributed to popping the bubbles to you took it personal when it was just more information.
Personally speaking I don't take popping bubble personal.
I just want to put the best finish I possibly can on my work..............
I don't wish to argue over bubbles, if we have too then I will not post my questions in here any more
cue finish
I have a friend who works at a heating and air condition repair service.
he makes the main air ducking pipes that would be routed through homes and businesses .
I was thinking of have him make me a paint booth that i could keep the cue dust free while the finish dried. I was thing of something like a big sand blasting cabinet.
I have no other way to control the dust.
We get allot of dust storms.... and there is no warning .
They blacken out the sun.
I have a friend who works at a heating and air condition repair service.
he makes the main air ducking pipes that would be routed through homes and businesses .
I was thinking of have him make me a paint booth that i could keep the cue dust free while the finish dried. I was thing of something like a big sand blasting cabinet.
I have no other way to control the dust.
We get allot of dust storms.... and there is no warning .
They blacken out the sun.
You know, Mike, that statement actually made me laugh out loud, so thanks for that. It's good to laugh now and again.
I don't see any need to beat this thing to death, but there are two points I'd like to make:
1) Nothing you wrote "upset" me; I doubt there's anything you can write - about cuemaking OR physics - that is capable of "upsetting" me. In fact, YOU were the one who went on and on about being bothered by my "sarcasm".
Here's how I see it. Suppose your and I were hanging out with a bunch of regular guys and I said, "Hey, you know what makes epoxy bubbles pop when you flow heat over them? Low pressure. Yeah, no kidding... low pressure. Who'da thunk it?"
And suppose you responded with: "What research I have done, the torch removes bubble because of the CO2 gases it creates."
To which I replied:"Interesting. I had no idea my industrial heat gun produces CO2 gases".
And at that point suppose you seemed to become focused on how my "sarcasm" was so unnecessary, and how my "smart ass remarks" were "un called for".
Now, suppose that conversation went down just like that among a bunch of regular guys - you know, men's men - and they overheard the entire conversation. Well, I don't know about your friends, but the guys I hang out with would probably start saying things like "Uh oh... looks like someone's got their period!" or "Oooh, poor baby got his feewwings hurt", and jive like that. Yeah , I can pretty much guarantee the guys I run with would be handing out sh*t like that wholesale.
My question for you is, who do you think they'd be giving that sh*t to, you, or me?
2) You wrote:
"ONLY"? I don't think I implied that, and I certainly didn't SAY that. "Only"? I invite you to quote me and explain how you you got the word "only" out of what I wrote. I was explaining the physics as I understand them, but I certainly didn't suggest, imply, or write that was the only cause of the bubbles popping.
TW
(PS: Everybody's different, and no two people think exactly alike. So how about this - suppose you make an effort to not take my acerbic writing style so damned personal, and I'll make an effort to be more sensitive in my responses. Does that seem fair? Maybe we can actually discuss this kind of stuff AND get along at the same time...)
(PPS: I guess that was actually 3 points.)
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Hot air is less dense and therefore creating a zone of less pressure above the epoxy reduces the surface tension, allowing bubbles to free themselves from solution.
A golf or baseball travels farther on a hot day. Imagine how far it would travel if the air temp was that of a heat gun! Heat and air density at those extremes is a huge factor.
JMO,
Rick
A golf or baseball travels farther on a hot day. Imagine how far it would travel if the air temp was that of a heat gun! Heat and air density at those extremes is a huge factor.
JMO,
Rick
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