What Would You Do Here? Straight Pool

sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
In my continuing effort to help this board rebound from the distractions of late, and to focus our attention back on the game we love, here's another position submitted for your analysis and comment.

This time we're playing straight pool. Here's a position that Ray Martin faced in the 1977 World Open Straight Pool Championships in Asbury Park, NJ.

You are on tight equipment and you are snookered from the fourteen ball.

The position seems extraordinarily simple, and there are numerous approaches to making the last two balls and leaving a break shot, but Ray did something that surpirsed me here. How would you play this and would you like to guess what Ray actually did (if you were there, please don't spoil it)?
 

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I'd bank the 5 cross corner...j/k Shoot the 11 in the corner, come one rail for the 5 in the opposite corner and use the 14 as a back of the rack break shot.

If that's not possible (it's hard to tell how far over the 14 is) shoot the 11 in the corner, go one rail shoot the 14 in the opposite corner, draw back on the short side of the five for a break shot.

hmm...maybe this is why I love straight pool, so many options :D .

Jim

Edit - I was waiting for a straight pool problem :)
 
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My guess is the ray played the 11 by kissing the 5 closer to the rack. The 5 was then his break ball. He used the 14 to get shape on the 5. I never would have thought of it unless you suggested a thoughtful approach to this.
 
I'd use the 5 as a combo into the 11 - leave the 5 in front of the pocket - then use the 14 as a break ball after I pocket the 5. I think that's what Ray did, right?
 
Sems obvious to make the hanger and go one rail on the 14 for position on the break ball.

Im guessing Martin nudged the break ball toward the rack while caroming in the hanger taking the side pocket scratch out on the position for the break shot shot.
 
Well, since its tight equipment, and you say he did something extraordinary, I would suggest: Carom of the 5, nudging it a bit closer to the rack, making the 11 with the carom shot. Then play 14, and have a normal break shot from mid table on the 5.

I like these kind of threads, very hard to start a flame war:D

I see now that TennesseJoe just launched the same solution..
 
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I took lessons from Ray Martin, however this table position never came up.

I would shoot the 11 into the corner, (position the cue ball for a natural run towards the lower area of the side pocket) then shoot the 5 (key ball) in the opposite corner. I know he did not do this but can't recall.

Regards,
Hal
 
My guess is that Ray banked the 5 gently with follow (making the 11) for a break shot on the other side of the rack, which is better for a right handed player. Then, shoot the 14 with one rail position for the 5.
 
pooladdict said:
Well, since its tight equipment, and you say he did something extraordinary, I would suggest: Carom of the 5, nudging it a bit closer to the rack, making the 11 with the carom shot. Then play 14, and have a normal break shot from mid table on the 5.

I see now that TennesseJoe just launched the same solution..
Click to expand...
That's a great idea.
 
I would think he'd pocket the 11 and leave the cueball on the short rail leaving an angle on the 14 ball to the left side rail and going up table towards the head of the table . Then pocket the 14 ball and go 2 or maybe a 3rd rail up table using the 5 as a break shot on the right side rail leaving the cueball close to that rail between the side pocket and the 5 break ball.

Curly
 
If it's a championship game, is it possible he simply quit a la Ronnie Sulivan?
 
?????????????

I'd say he played a billiard off of the 5 ball moving it closer to the rackthen shot the 14 playing position on the 5 to break out the rack. Right!
Pinocchio
 
I like playing the 5-11 combination leaving the 11 by the hole, and use the 14 as the behind the rack break shot. Based on the diagram, playing a billiard off the five, even if executed perfectly, would move it further down the table, making it a less than ideal break ball. On top of that, getting into that less than optimal position would still require perfect executionthe odds of perfect execution are not extremely high. On the other hand, the 14 is an absolutely lovely break ball and its so easily accessible from a key ball that is in the lower right hand corner. Why mess with that?

P.S.--Did Ray, by any chance, just cut the five cross table and then play the 11 and 14? It's the first thing I thought of but I said to myself, "No, those big-time straights players didn't take chances like that, did they?"
 
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Assuming you can see the 11 I would go 11 corner go one possibly two rails to 5 in the same corner leaving white just below the 14. I would play the 14 in corner and attack the lower left corner of the stack and have white travel one rail back for a secondary break shot. The 14 would be a tuff break shot cause white would only move a few balls in that fashion.
 
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Tennesseejoe said:
My guess is the ray played the 11 by kissing the 5 closer to the rack. The 5 was then his break ball. He used the 14 to get shape on the 5. I never would have thought of it unless you suggested a thoughtful approach to this.
Click to expand...

TJ,
I'm with you. Sounds like the correct play.
 
A video response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzFSvY8Mpnk

I interpreted the pattern as the 11 being available. The other possible misinterpretation is the 14's position. Now that I look at it again I may have had the 14 too high on the table. If so I would have played it the same way just with the cue ball being further down below the 14. I see it as bing a possible break ball for the lower left side of the stack. My table dimensions are a bit different I have an 8 x 4.
 
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TennesseJoe nailed it. Many others concurred in the brilliance of this choice. Ray caromed in the eleven softly off the five, improving the position of the five and making it an ideal break shot.

About two years later, I showed the position to Irving Crane. Irving said he'd have probably used the fourteen as the break shot. After I told him how Ray played it, he agreed that Ray's approach was better, but admitted he'd never have thought of it.

Just another example of how creative you can be in straight pool. Thanks to all who participated.
 
If I am playing straight pool (like never) and I come upon this situation, I may take a break and call Tony Robles, John Schmidt, Thorsten or Bobby Hunter for advice.

I am sure they would all tell me to concede and get my opponent to play some 8 or 9 ball :D
 
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