Where do you draw the line

I

ILD

Raffle addict
Silver Member
I was watching a match of an $5, double elimination, 8 ball tournament on bar boxes.

Player A (A friend of mine) was down to 3 stripes left on the table and his opponent (player B) was on the 8, but hooked behind a stripe. Player B shoots a 3 rail shot the ends up scratching. Player A then takes ball in hand and tries to run out the table. Not noticing that he has already won due to the scratch. He ends up missing and player B pots the 8 and goes to the TD to report the win. Afterwords Player B comes up to player A and tells him how he should have won because of the scratch on the 8, but because this was tournament play he wasn't going to give him any advice during the game.

I know it isn't right to say anything from the rail about an ongoing game but my question is, Should someone have let player A know the game was over before he took ball in hand and continued shooting?

Second question, Could player A have gone to the TD with this information and corrected the score board? or was it too late since he had taken ball in hand and continued play.

*Edit: Under the rules of the tournament a scratch on the 8 would be considered a loss.


Any input is appreciated.
 
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I would imagine the game was over when Player B scratched. So whatever Player A's shoots after that doesn't mean anything.

As a side note, Player B would be classified as a pinhead for acting like he got one over on Player A.
 
My feeling is, once the game is won or lost, it's irrelevant how a different player "sees it". The game is flat out won or lost. Anything player A does after that is just practicing on an unused table. He won. The fact that he doesn't know he won... doesn't change anything. You can choose to point stuff out or not in the middle of a game, but once a game is over it's over.

Player B needs to get his head on straight and should have reported a loss to the TD the instant he lost the game.

Player A should have made sure the TD was aware of the situation, so the TD could mark down his win. Once someone admits to losing and then reports it as a win to the TD, it's like openly admitting you cheated to win. The win can't stand.
 
Without knowing the tournament rules they were playing under, it is only a guess about what the correct action would be.

a. player A doesn't know the rules? deserves to lose anyway, with ball in hand and only his 3 balls and the 8 ball on the table and couldn't get out???

b. player B is a jerk if he thought he lost and then continued to play, and didn't know the rules anyway.

c. for $5 in a bar, why not drink a beer and be happy?
 
Old VNEA rule. As soon as the player puts the cue ball back on the table, he is acknowledging that the game is still in play.
Now, you can scratch on the 8 and its not game.
Without knowing what rules were in play in that tourney.
At least these were the rules that we played under.
 
I thought this was about using a felt tip pen to mark the kitchen on a table.

My bad.



How many times can a player lose in one game? Game was over on the eight scratch, no matter what the guy did after that.
 
Player A lost the game because of his ignorance of the rules. Player B knew he lost according to the rules, but continued on. If Player B didn't know the rules, it would be different. However, he knew that he lost the game. So, I consider that an act of cheating.

I don't know your league rules for coaching, but that was a perfect time to call a Time-Out and give advice as a coach to Player A of the rule.

Report it to the tournament director, its unlikely he'll change the result since Player A and Player B agreed to the result. However, maybe the tournament director can sanction Player B for the cheating.

Another proper perspective, its a sad person who needs to count on cheating in order to stay in a $5 bar tournament.
 
One question....

He's an a player, with ball in hand, three balls, on a BB and he didn't get out or play a safe and win????

In my book, that makes him a C player!!!
 
But to answer your question, once the scratch occurs, loss of game.

OVER and DONE!!

A player wins......
 
ILD said:
I was watching a match of an $5, double elimination, 8 ball tournament on bar boxes.

Player A (A friend of mine) was down to 3 stripes left on the table and his opponent (player B) was on the 8, but hooked behind a stripe. Player B shoots a 3 rail shot the ends up scratching. Player A then takes ball in hand and tries to run out the table. Not noticing that he has already won due to the scratch. He ends up missing and player B pots the 8 and goes to the TD to report the win. Afterwords Player B comes up to player A and tells him how he should have won because of the scratch on the 8, but because this was tournament play he wasn't going to give him any advice during the game.

I know it isn't right to say anything from the rail about an ongoing game but my question is, Should someone have let player A know the game was over before he took ball in hand and continued shooting?

Second question, Could player A have gone to the TD with this information and corrected the score board? or was it too late since he had taken ball in hand and continued play.

*Edit: Under the rules of the tournament a scratch on the 8 would be considered a loss.


Any input is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Was player B's name Low Down Dirty Red?
 
Thanks everyone for their input.



poolhustler said:
One question....

He's an a player, with ball in hand, three balls, on a BB and he didn't get out or play a safe and win????

In my book, that makes him a C player!!!
Click to expand...

Sorry for any confusion I was simply using (player A) and (player B) as names no reference to skill level,

The overall skill level at this tournament is C+ to B- id say. Myself being a B- player and ive won several times.

Tom In Cincy said:
c. for $5 in a bar, why not drink a beer and be happy?
Click to expand...

Sounds like a fine plan to me!
 
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ILD said:
I know it isn't right to say anything from the rail about an ongoing game but my question is, Should someone have let player A know the game was over before he took ball in hand and continued shooting?

.
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Sure you could have - as soon as he scratched on the 8:

"Good game guys, that was tough.....Todd, you got lucky he scratched on the 8 and gave you the game"

Giving congratulations is not advice :D

Although I didn't figure it out right away, I had some similar fortune about a year ago......guy my speed and I were playing 9-ball - for some reason, he was getting the wild 8 against me. Anyway, he got down on the 8, made it, and continued to shoot the 9, leaving it in the jaws. I made the 9, shook his hand, and then it hit me that he sort of won. Granted, he would have needed to win another game, so I just kept my trap shut - I figure he played my speed, he was getting weight, and he didn't track it, so I went against my normal values and let it go....I am a bad man :D
 
Yep!!!

Big Perm said:
Sure you could have - as soon as he scratched on the 8:

"Good game guys, that was tough.....Todd, you got lucky he scratched on the 8 and gave you the game"

Giving congratulations is not advice :D
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can tell your friend that if you were watching the game, and saw what happened. Who would have been angry? Only Player B the Cheater, and I could handle that hatred any day of the week. Hell, I like that kind of hatred.

If you need to cheat to win, then you need to give your cues away, and go take a long walk off a short pier.

And people wonder why new people do not get interested in pool!!:eek:

Player B lost, and the fact that he knew it, and then came back to player A later to tell him he was a cheater(rubbing his nose in it) really shows his personality. Maybe Player A needed to show him how far a pool cue can be shoved up one's A$$!

Going to a tourney tonight, and hopefully all the people will be well-behaved, BUT there is always that PLAYER B that seems to be around. I would rather lose than cheat to win, but that is me, and I am not any good at pool anyway.

Michael
 
I certainly would have said something, especially if he was a friend, and in a $5 tournament. When the game is over, it's over.

A few weeks ago I was watching an eight ball game between a couple of level 3 players in a regional playoff. One player was on the eight and jumped off the table. She then picked up the cue ball and handed it to the other player that had a couple of balls still on the table. The other player didn't get out so the player that had jumped the cue ball off the table then pocketed the eight ball for an apparent win of the match.

Someone after that told the loser that she had really won the match because of the scratch on the eight. She then went to the TD for clarification. The TD understood that the scratch occurred while shooting on the eight but then decided to have them replay that game.

I fell that the TD was wrong when it was confirmed by the player that scratched that she was on the eight.

Anytime if it's a money match between a couple of players then it's better to stay out of any disputes that might happen. There the game is only between two people. Plus you have a better chance of staying healthy.
 
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