Who is considered the greatest living cueist right now?
- Thread starter Positively Ralf
- Start date
Why does it have be a game involving pockets? Have you watched any world-class level 3c lately? How could they not be considered world-class 'cueists'?
How often do the snooker players play other cue sports to judge their skill at them? I don't think just being a straight shooter like Ronnie or Joshua or Jayson is enough to be considered the "best cueist".
I would think someone that was good at snooker, good at 3C and good at pool would be a better "cueist" than just someone that was great at just one of those but weak with the others.
This is why I think if/when the Olympics get cue sports, they need to run three different events, snooker, 3C and probably 8 ball for the pool game. 50 years ago straight pool would be a no-brainer but I think 8 ball would be a better game to represent pool, even though I think 3C and straight pool are the more "pure" cue sports.
I would think someone that was good at snooker, good at 3C and good at pool would be a better "cueist" than just someone that was great at just one of those but weak with the others.
This is why I think if/when the Olympics get cue sports, they need to run three different events, snooker, 3C and probably 8 ball for the pool game. 50 years ago straight pool would be a no-brainer but I think 8 ball would be a better game to represent pool, even though I think 3C and straight pool are the more "pure" cue sports.
The current plan for the Olympic Games and what we will see in the Birmingham World Games next July is 3-cushion, snooker and men's and women's nine ball. That's the way it has been since the Akita World Games in 2001:
Billiards Sports | IWGA
Results:
The current plan for the Olympic Games and what we will see in the Birmingham World Games next July is 3-cushion, snooker and men's and women's nine ball. That's the way it has been since the Akita World Games in 2001:
Billiards Sports | IWGA
www.theworldgames.org
Results:
View attachment 616168
Does anyone play in more than one event? That is the key to finding the best "cuist" past just gut feelings.
No. I don't think any competition with single players each playing multiple disciplines has ever been done. I don't count events like DCC and Johnston City. There have been a few like snooker/pool with two disciplines.
For those that haven't seen it, this was arguably the 3 cushion and pool GOATs of that time (Torbjorn Blomdahl and Efren Reyes) playing each other in their own respectively disciplines (9 ball and 3 cushion) in 1997 in or near their primes. Being such small sample sizes I don't think these and the other videos below prove much, but I think we can see to not underestimate those 3 cushion guys. Their game (3 cushion) may look deceptively simple but it is one of those cases where looks are deceiving and they clearly have as much talent as anybody.
Here they are matching up again in 9 ball in 2002.
3 cushion rematch in 2012
They also match up in 10 ball in 2012 the day after the video above, the first few minutes of the match is available here but not sure if the whole match is available online anywhere.
I don't see how one compares across the cue sport disciplines, and I'll restrict my comments to pool.
What constitutes a great cueist is a very interesting question. Is it somebody who has great power, great speed control, or is it the player having the most accurate delivery of the cue ball in the intended direction?
I recall discussing this with a couple of the old masters, specifically with respect to the stroke of Steve Mizerak, considered to have the greatest stroke ever in the eyes of some of his peers. Steve's stroke was less powerful than a couple of his peers (e.g., Earl Strickland), and his speed control was below a couple of his peers (e.g., Irving Crane), and there were a couple who shot straighter (e.g., Mike Sigel). That said, however, Jack Colavita suggested that Steve had the greatest blend of these three elements of any player he'd ever watched, making him the greatest cueist Jack had ever seen.
Using these criteria, I'd have to select Efren as the greatest living cueist, although Jose Parica is nearly Efren's equal, as are Mike Sigel and Buddy Hall. Among those who are still active, guys like Orcullo, Filler, SVB, and Pagulayan are all in the conversation.
The real answer, however, is that what constitutes a great cueist means different things to different people.
What constitutes a great cueist is a very interesting question. Is it somebody who has great power, great speed control, or is it the player having the most accurate delivery of the cue ball in the intended direction?
I recall discussing this with a couple of the old masters, specifically with respect to the stroke of Steve Mizerak, considered to have the greatest stroke ever in the eyes of some of his peers. Steve's stroke was less powerful than a couple of his peers (e.g., Earl Strickland), and his speed control was below a couple of his peers (e.g., Irving Crane), and there were a couple who shot straighter (e.g., Mike Sigel). That said, however, Jack Colavita suggested that Steve had the greatest blend of these three elements of any player he'd ever watched, making him the greatest cueist Jack had ever seen.
Using these criteria, I'd have to select Efren as the greatest living cueist, although Jose Parica is nearly Efren's equal, as are Mike Sigel and Buddy Hall. Among those who are still active, guys like Orcullo, Filler, SVB, and Pagulayan are all in the conversation.
The real answer, however, is that what constitutes a great cueist means different things to different people.
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tomatoshooter
Well-known member
The Miz was awesome. One of those guys whose stroke just looked smoother and straighter than anyone. Unfortunately, it seems like every time I watch one of his matches on youtube, he's having a bad day with tough rolls and facing Efren around '90 or Earl around '82 for Earl's first major win. To say Earl was on FIRE that day is an gross understatement. He had that crazy look in his eye, just unstoppable.
I don't think his career puts him among the very tip top but Rafael Martinez has a great stroke and makes some mind blowing shots. Probably more circus shots per game than anyone else I've seen. Amazing banks and kicks. Shots most people wouldn't ever think of. This shot at 12:20 is pretty spectacular
I don't think his career puts him among the very tip top but Rafael Martinez has a great stroke and makes some mind blowing shots. Probably more circus shots per game than anyone else I've seen. Amazing banks and kicks. Shots most people wouldn't ever think of. This shot at 12:20 is pretty spectacular
Guess it really boils down to what you think the title of 'best cueist' actually means.
For me, it's it's a blend of potting and subsequent CB control over a large array of situational circumstances. Dreaming up inventive ways to swing at the fences doesn't play into that.
We can hide behind "all games are different', but I don't think it takes much effort to rank them against each other. For example, the hardest potting game I've witnessed to date is Russian Pyramid, but there isn't much in terms of CB control. The most impressive CB control (imo) is 3 cushion, but keep in mind the intented target is how large...?..., >6"..? Chinese 8 ball, is toddler snooker in terms of potting.
Ya ya I know. The intense fans of the various games will say I have no clue what I'm talking about, and that's fine. However for me, without question. The greatest living cueist is Ronnie.
For me, it's it's a blend of potting and subsequent CB control over a large array of situational circumstances. Dreaming up inventive ways to swing at the fences doesn't play into that.
We can hide behind "all games are different', but I don't think it takes much effort to rank them against each other. For example, the hardest potting game I've witnessed to date is Russian Pyramid, but there isn't much in terms of CB control. The most impressive CB control (imo) is 3 cushion, but keep in mind the intented target is how large...?..., >6"..? Chinese 8 ball, is toddler snooker in terms of potting.
Ya ya I know. The intense fans of the various games will say I have no clue what I'm talking about, and that's fine. However for me, without question. The greatest living cueist is Ronnie.
rafael was always entertaining to watch......
Back in 2010 Magoo's had a big 1p tournament, the 'T-town Classic' put on by G. Owen. RM was there and came in second to S. Ochoa. Rafael played some other-worldly shots including an insane 5-rail safety against Gabe.. Also saw him DESTROY Corey Duel in a late-nite big $$$ 10b game at DCC in '07. He plays all games, including 3c, very well. He's been in Mexico last few yrs due to some visa/passport issues.rafael was always entertaining to watch......
I agree about the Miz...and I love Buddy’s stroke also.
...but for me, the term ‘cueist’ is how one strikes the ball, not necessarily how well one plays.
I could spin the ball pretty good in my prime...and draw whitey from table length full table....on a 6x12.
But I used to play a guy in handicap 9-ball tournament who could out spin me and out draw me significantly.
....but I used to give him the 7/8 and two games on the wire in a race to nine....don’t recall losing one.
I don’t think Efren or Nick are in the top fifty, stroke wise, but as players, they’re a way up there.
Geosnookery
Well-known member
Ha! I’m a lefty that shoots both ways but shooting right handed it’s just to make the pot or ‘try’ to position the white. Ronnie put that white perfect on the black…couldn’t have been better if he picked it up and placed it.
IMO - the guy who has always been the most impressive at what he does with a cue stick and billiard balls is a 3 way tie across disciplines.
Ronnie
Torbjorn
Efren
With respect to Torbjorn specifically, this has got to be the most impressive shot of any discipline I have ever seen. And he shot it opposite handed. With position. I never would have even thought of this. It's a display of stroke, imagination, speed control, confidence, etc. etc.
Ronnie
Torbjorn
Efren
With respect to Torbjorn specifically, this has got to be the most impressive shot of any discipline I have ever seen. And he shot it opposite handed. With position. I never would have even thought of this. It's a display of stroke, imagination, speed control, confidence, etc. etc.
They run 600 of those little red balls yet?
great cueist doesn't have to mean great competitor. case in point, chris melling. has he won any major pool tournament, aside from DCC? not a knock on chris, he is one of my favorite players to watch because he is such a great cueist, but he hasn't won much outside english 8-ball