Who will ruin the IPT?

[Roll-Off]

Now that threre's some semblance of a lucrative pool organization, I have one question. Which players will organize a mutiny and branch off to form their own tour? This would be similar to the way CJ Wiley single-handedly took down the PBT when he formed the PCA. You know someone will bite the hand that feeds it. Also, hopefully the player who bad-mouthed the IPT a while back doesn't eventually profit from it (you know who). Who's it going to be?

 

[vagabond]

Now that threre's some semblance of a lucrative pool organization, I have one question. Which players will organize a mutiny and branch off to form their own tour? This would be similar to the way CJ Wiley single-handedly took down the PBT when he formed the PCA. You know someone will bite the hand that feeds it. Also, hopefully the player who bad-mouthed the IPT a while back doesn't eventually profit from it (you know who). Who's it going to be?

You must be a pro player from yester years to know and remember about that.Not many people know or remember about that very speicific info.

 

[satman]

I believe there were several players who went together to form the PCA and elected CJ as the leader of the group. They had some good idea's and I think it all came down to not enough money to sustain the tour. Of course, there was probably some dissention in their ranks too. And then the problems with Earl getting his Million. Some day, Some how, maybe there will be a tour that will stand up to the trouble makers, give them the boot{permanently} and have the funding to make things right. We should all have a dream, RIGHT???????? Sam

 

[Mr. Wilson]

You must be a pro player from yester years to know and remember about that.Not many people know or remember about that very speicific info.

.........or read Blackjack's info on his worries about the past.


Remember, this guy you're asking is the same one who felt proud he "won" some money from a fall down drunk woman.


........and that we are all just jealous of his "success"

 

[ShootingArts]

Kevin Trudeau

Now that threre's some semblance of a lucrative pool organization, I have one question. Which players will organize a mutiny and branch off to form their own tour? This would be similar to the way CJ Wiley single-handedly took down the PBT when he formed the PCA. You know someone will bite the hand that feeds it. Also, hopefully the player who bad-mouthed the IPT a while back doesn't eventually profit from it (you know who). Who's it going to be?

IF the IPT is ruined it will be by the same person who founded it. Having watched the birth, life, and usually death of many competition organizations I see some red flags indicating a likelihood of trouble ahead. However time will tell the real story regardless of any opinions voiced here.

Hu

 

[Colin Colenso]

If the IPT can keep up the prize money they won't have to worry about competition for a few years I imagine.

And when they do, it won't be the players that form a break away, (after all, most of them couldn't market water during a heat wave), it would be another well connected / experienced entrepreneur or a professional sports management firm that went out to recruit the newly promoted stars, which by then would hopefully be household names.

The WPA is most likely hoping they can achieve the goal mentioned above. They've little chance though.

What's gonna be real interesting is what Matchroom does? They don't appear to have any interest in taking the WPA's side. The Mosconi Cup players are all IPT members I believe. It will be interesting to see what happens in the World Champs next year, which will be held in Taiwan I believe, the home of the APBU which has made their opposition to the IPT very clear.

So, there are plenty of interesting / explosive developments on the horizon.

 

[vagabond]

.........or read Blackjack's info on his worries about the past.

It is possible.I forgot about it.By the way I have a test for anyone including BlackJack.In what city 7 year CJ revolted and expressed his outrage against DonMackey?

 

[Nit]

It is possible.I forgot about it.By the way I have a test for anyone including BlackJack.In what city 7 year CJ revolted and expressed his outrage against DonMackey?

Translation please?

And, by the way.......2 spaces after a period.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I believe there were several players who went together to form the PCA and elected CJ as the leader of the group. They had some good idea's and I think it all came down to not enough money to sustain the tour. ...

I think it could have worked, except for one problem.

I was at one of the first tournaments the PCA held in Santa Rosa, CA. The big news at that tournament, as I recall, was that the PBTA (Mackey's organization) has just landed the deal with Camel, which would provide publicity and a $250,000 year-end bonus to PBT players.

I think within two years the PBTA was defaulting on prize funds, then sued Camel and won $800,000 and then vanished. People still wonder what happened to the money.

 

[onepocketchump]

Now that threre's some semblance of a lucrative pool organization, I have one question. Which players will organize a mutiny and branch off to form their own tour? This would be similar to the way CJ Wiley single-handedly took down the PBT when he formed the PCA. You know someone will bite the hand that feeds it. Also, hopefully the player who bad-mouthed the IPT a while back doesn't eventually profit from it (you know who). Who's it going to be?

None. If any players bolt then there are a couple thousand more waiting to take their place. KT has got this thing locked up.

John

 

[rackmsuckr]

None. If any players bolt then there are a couple thousand more waiting to take their place. KT has got this thing locked up.

John

Actually, I do know of some individuals who are working on getting million dollar payouts for first place. They said it won't interfere with the IPT and the 2 can exist in harmony together. The money doesn't come from within the industry, and the 'sponsors' don't lose money doing it. I am not at liberty to say anymore, so please don't ask. I only say this because of the speculation that IF the IPT goes down in 2 years, there may still be something on the horizon for deserving pool players.

 

[Blackjack]

It is possible.I forgot about it.By the way I have a test for anyone including BlackJack.In what city 7 year CJ revolted and expressed his outrage against DonMackey?

What city & year???

Owensboro, Ky. 1994 maybe??? There were many run ins between The Don and CJ, this is the one I remember, though bad blood existed as far back as the World Team Billiards/Worldwide Collectible deal. The argument in Owensboro was just the tip of the iceberg and the problems had roots far beneath the surface.

The PCA was not started on negative energy at all. Anyone that says that is 100% - WRONG. The PCA recognized that the MPBT had failed us un many ways. By then we had already lost the momentum that came with TCOM and the popularity our game received was wasted and killed due to mismanagement and bad business decisions. The PCA tried to unify the sport and the event in Santa Rosa is a fine example of the PCA and WPBA working hand in hand to put on a great event that showed how fun our game truly is. Hats off to Steve Tipton and Peg Ledman for giving the PCA a chance and standing up against the establishment. I think the WPBA does just fine with having distanced themselves from Men's professional pool. Nobody gave the WPBA a chance back when they broke away.

Anybody remember reading this 5 years ago?

http://www.slate.com/id/85218


In closing, I would like to say that unless the IPT addresses the issues that Roll-off brought up - they will suffer the same fate as those that came before them. As I said in another thread - there is no loyalty at the top, the bottom, or in between. You have a wealthy bunny rabbit walking into a den of hungry lions. The lions are hungry for money... but I dont think the lions are smart enough to not eat the rabbit. That's all I'm saying. If that comes across as negative or naysayer-ish - I'm sorry. Its the way I see it.

 

[Tbeaux]

In closing, I would like to say that unless the IPT addresses the issues that Roll-off brought up - they will suffer the same fate as those that came before them. As I said in another thread - there is no loyalty at the top, the bottom, or in between. You have a wealthy bunny rabbit walking into a den of hungry lions. The lions are hungry for money... but I dont think the lions are smart enough to not eat the rabbit. That's all I'm saying. If that comes across as negative or naysayer-ish - I'm sorry. Its the way I see it.

I think it's really as simple as KT states on the IPT web site. To paraphrase and sum up it's KT's way or the highway, it's his money and his tour people can get on board or not. He (KT) reserves the right to take his marbles and go home at anytime and IF the players start a bunch of shit I have no doubt
he'll do just that. The players will make or break the IPT.

Terry

 

[Snapshot9]

The IPT

If you were making $40,000 a year at a job, and someone came
along and offered you a job at $90,000-$100,000 a year job,
and you toke the job, would you being trying to find fault
with the company? Hell no, you would be giving it your
best shot, and cooperating and trying to see everything
in a positive light. I think that if, eventually, you did start
making complaints about the company, you would be very
careful about how you did it, and that you would have another
job in the back of your mind that payed as much as the
gift horse job. In other words, to cut off your hand to spite
your arm would be stupid.

The problems for the future will arise from other Pool organizations
when they finally admit that the IPT is a real tour, and pays
good. It puts pressure on them to do more for the sport and its
players or they will not be competitive. They will get to a point
of not wanting to be competitive, but will want to cooperate with
the IPT 'for the good of the players'. The very thing that Kevin
Trudeau is, is inherently good for the sport. Why, because he doesn't
HAVE to answer to anyone. He has a better idea, he is backing it,
and the IPT will do more to change Pool than has been done in the
last 30 years. And he will do this within 2 years. Other organizations
will be forced to do what they have been somewhat ineffective in
doing in the past, and people will be more critical of them in the
future if they do not come through. The dedicated person to the
sport of Pool, all the supporters and workers, will voice their displeasure
more vocally in the future of these inadequate organizations and their
leaders. Kevin has offered the game and the bet, the other organizations
have to put up or shut up. It will be like a boiling pot on the stove
in the future, and the decisions these other organizations make
will be telltale signs of whether they really are dedicated to the sport,
or their own selfish goals, or just trying to exercise power that they
have only in their minds.

 

[Jaden]

The goal for Pro pool

I think that the goal for pro pool should be to get where anyone who gets on the tour should be making a decent living. If you're holding a tour match once a week for three quarters of the year, even with a last place payout of 1000 you would still be making 38 G's a year. If we could get pro pool to that point, then we will have accompished something. If you do that in a format similar to KT's and you replace the bottom 50 players each year or atleast make them requalify , then atleast those bottome fifty would still have something to show for the year other than good memories of when they played pro pool.

 

[Blackjack]

He (KT) reserves the right to take his marbles and go home at anytime and IF the players start a bunch of shit I have no doubt
he'll do just that. The players will make or break the IPT.

Terry

Which is why this wild west mentality needs to be stopped. When and if he has to take his marbles and go home, how does that directly impact the entire billiards industry, the tours, and the players that are genuinely appreciative of what he is doing? Putting all of our faith in KT is unfair to KT on a lot of levels - and definitely unfair to the game of pool. This is why the other organizations are opposed to the individualistic approach he has in regards to advancing the game glabally. His hard work and efforts will not have a global effect at all - it will directly benefit the IPT. The attitude eof "nothing exists outside the world of the IPT" is not solving anything. It's not reality. While it is understandable that he wants to come in and change everything (its his way or the highway) there are many good people that would be more than happy to assist him in his efforts to revolutionize the sport and offer our experience and knowledge to him, but his attitude does not reflect somebody that will listen to anybody except the people he has surrounded himself with. I'm not saying they are bad people, I am saying that they have tunnel vision and unless they see the entire spectrum of problems and do something about them (instead of hiding them with big purses) they will end up just like everyone else.

I've come on this forum and spoke very honestly and frankly about the problems that exist within our sport. Instead of acknowledging that these problems exist, I have people that are telling me that KT's money will sweep all of these problems away and we are going to live happily ever after. Instead of addressing solutions for the problems, some have shot back with personal attacks against me. Knock yourself out. I answer my phone. If you have anything to say to me, my number is in my profile. The problems that got us where we are at today will not go away just because we hide them under a rug of KT's money. I hope that Deno and people close to KT that exist within the realm of the IPT world realize this. If they do not - they are wasting everybody's time, and they are wasting KT's money.

 

[Tbeaux]

Which is why this wild west mentality needs to be stopped. When and if he has to take his marbles and go home, how does that directly impact the entire billiards industry, the tours, and the players that are genuinely appreciative of what he is doing? Putting all of our faith in KT is unfair to KT on a lot of levels - and definitely unfair to the game of pool. This is why the other organizations are opposed to the individualistic approach he has in regards to advancing the game glabally. His hard work and efforts will not have a global effect at all - it will directly benefit the IPT. The attitude eof "nothing exists outside the world of the IPT" is not solving anything. It's not reality. While it is understandable that he wants to come in and change everything (its his way or the highway) there are many good people that would be more than happy to assist him in his efforts to revolutionize the sport and offer our experience and knowledge to him, but his attitude does not reflect somebody that will listen to anybody except the people he has surrounded himself with. I'm not saying they are bad people, I am saying that they have tunnel vision and unless they see the entire spectrum of problems and do something about them (instead of hiding them with big purses) they will end up just like everyone else.

I've come on this forum and spoke very honestly and frankly about the problems that exist within our sport. Instead of acknowledging that these problems exist, I have people that are telling me that KT's money will sweep all of these problems away and we are going to live happily ever after. Instead of addressing solutions for the problems, some have shot back with personal attacks against me. Knock yourself out. I answer my phone. If you have anything to say to me, my number is in my profile. The problems that got us where we are at today will not go away just because we hide them under a rug of KT's money. I hope that Deno and people close to KT that exist within the realm of the IPT world realize this. If they do not - they are wasting everybody's time, and they are wasting KT's money.

No attacks, I generally agree with you on some of what you say. The difference is I think in KT the pool community is getting what it's been crying for a long time...corporate involvement from outside the pool industry.Kt said upfront he was going to do this HIS way....what happens? First thing other organizations which have only been MARGINALLY effective try to shake him down not reallizing that they have NO hold on him and the BEST thing they can do is try to be MORE competitive with the IPT.No matter if the IPT is a success or a failure It gives the other organizations a kick in the ass so to speak to be more effective in their promotion of pool and backing/support of players.It could also lead to more outside the billiards industry corporate involvement. As to "wild west mentality", I prefer "free enterprise individualism",what I believe has always made this country great when it come to success. You seem to see the glass half empty,I see the waiter filling the glass.

Terry

 

[Colin Colenso]

Blackjack,
I do believe that the IPT is planning to develop worldwide links for qualifiers, sub-tours etc. In doing so, they will likely cooperate with many people who have experience in the system.

I imagine they will face obstacles and need to make compromises in achieving this. Those managing the implementation will report back to KT and the best decisions will hopefully be made. They will face it one obstacle at a time and the course of progress will become clearer with time.

To discuss these potential obstacles and opportunities is a fair and interesting pursuit.

Hopefully future discussions in this regard can be more enlightening and productive, and less hostile when disagreements occur.

 

[OldHasBeen]

I can't see ANY reason for ANY negitivity.

What do we have to lose?

I think there are a lot of people & players trying to figure out just what this Kevin Trudeau (IPT) is doing and why he is doing it. In doing so, I think they are looking at a gift horse in the mouth.

SO, (IMO) -
He is doing it because HE CAN. He's got the money. I also believe that he LIKES (not loves) pool.

I do know one thing for sure. He's one smart, sharp businessman. AND
He is looking for a great deal on a under funded sport that he can propel and parlay into a great marketing tool for his corporation, NaturalCures.com

He knows that history repeats itself. He is convinced that POOL will be to NaturalCures.com - the same as BOXING was to GILLETTE.

I think he can see that Pro-Pool is in such disarray and yet has so much talent and entertainment value to offer, that with his skills and funding -
WE CAN BOTH COME OUT BIG WINNERS.

If a major corporation could have predicted the Hugh explosion of POKER, they could have became the (almost) exclusive sponsor of all future major events.

I think it is in everyone’s interest (including Kevin Trudeau's) to be as "Positive As Possible"!

Not all pool players claim to be gamblers - but I think the majority do - SO - Where's Our Gamble? THIS GUY'S PUTTIN UP THE CA$H (for a damn smart reason) and all he is asking is for is a chance to help US & HIM make a bunch of $$$.
What’s the worse that can happen?
Professional Pool Players would have to play for peanuts and not be rewarded for their talents?
Professional Pool Players wouldn't be able to justify an income based on Pool alone.
Professional Pool Players wouldn't have sponsors to put them On Tour and offer them a fair share of their winnings?
Professional Pool Players would have to supplement their meager incomes by wagering against each other and constantly worrying about their future, knowing that the way things are, it would be almost impossible to have a normal life and family.

“OH WAIT – THAT’S WHERE WE ARE NOW”!

I think we should start promoting & stop projecting.

(JMHO) - TY & GL

 

[Jaden]

always the moderator

Blackjack,

I do believe that the IPT is planning to develop worldwide links for qualifiers, sub-tours etc. In doing so, they will likely cooperate with many people who have experience in the system.

I imagine they will face obstacles and need to make compromises in achieving this. Those managing the implementation will report back to KT and the best decisions will hopefully be made. They will face it one obstacle at a time and the course of progress will become clearer with time.

To discuss these potential obstacles and opportunities is a fair and interesting pursuit.

Hopefully future discussions in this regard can be more enlightening and productive, and less hostile when disagreements occur.

Even in the short time I've been on this forum, you seem to be a fair knowledgable moderator in a lot of the threads. Thanks for the effort.