Whom, is credited with inventing low deflection shafts?

[FranCrimi]

If I can remember correctly, didn't Meucci cues originally have maximum cue stick deflection which resulted in minimum cue ball deflection or squirt? So the shaft was not an LD shaft but the result was low cue ball squirt.

I used to play with a Meucci. Loved the cue. But it did vibrate a whole lot, which, I believe, was what it was meant to do. This was in the early days... late 70's - early 80's.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

As far as I know, a very large and powerful Chinese family.

The Low Clan. The primary person involved in this project was Low Phat.

Previously, he also went into the lucrative diet food market.

If I remember, the family also owns the rights to Low Mein Noodows.

 

[Wedge]

Wow

Bob Meucci was the first to experiment with and sell LD shafts.

In the early 80's when I had my shop on Garden of the Gods Rd. in CS, Terry Bell, Larry Hubbard and Jim Rempe would call me from Meuccis' office and explain what they were doing with LD ferrules and shafts.

They were good customers of mine and Bob had convinced them that LD was better.

I couldn't accept it at the time of course but in hindsight I now realize I was wrong.

This was way before anyone else even thought about LD shafts.

Bill S.

You have a lot of nerve posting on AZ! No one gives a shit what you think after you ripped off your winner of your cue contest!

Wedge

 

[Maxx]

You have a lot of nerve posting on AZ! No one gives a shit what you think after you ripped off your winner of your cue contest!

Wedge

I care, it was good, on topic post.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Sorry Pan Head, oops, I mean Maxx, I didn't mean to FK it up.

It still is a good thread, Wedge just set the record straight a bit.

I have a few Preds, a Meucci Black Dot and a few Players HXT shafts.

Out of the three, I would take my Black Dot over anything.

It figures that Bob Meucci would be the first with his experimentations.

The Dot is actually the one that I can see and feel the difference.

I don't believe there is or ever will be a Hybrid shaft that can take the place of a decent piece of maple, nice taper and a medium to stiff hit.

 

[larrynj1]

iirc, dennis dieckman has said in the past that he was part of the team developing the predator shafts.

 

[JB Cases]

You have a lot of nerve posting on AZ! No one gives a shit what you think after you ripped off your winner of your cue contest!

Wedge

I disagree. Why Bill doesn't address the issue is something only he knows. But beyond that he is still a pioneering cue maker who can contribute to our collective body of knowledge. Witch-hunting him won't resolve the contest issue.

I care, it was good, on topic post.

Agreed +1

 

[The Saw]

The Meucci Black/Red dot shafts were about consistency. They had a way that they tested shafts for "radial consistency" or whatever, I forget what term Bob used for it. He got the idea from Buddy Hall, Buddy would always pick shaft wood that had really long feathers in the grain and then would always play with the grain up, for a consistent hit. I spent a day at the Meucci factory in 98 before the Orlando trade show, most of it spent testing cues. Bob may have his quirks but he is a pretty sharp cat.....

 

[macguy]

You have a lot of nerve posting on AZ! No one gives a shit what you think after you ripped off your winner of your cue contest!

Wedge

I do. He is one of the worlds top cue makers, and cue innovators. As a player he played just a shade under the worlds best players. Who the F$%K are you?

 

[The Renfro]

I was just talking to a guy last week who mentioned that Clawson Cues was the original name that became Predator.

Wasn't Steve Titus involved in the LD shafts origination?

ONB

Very good memory....

 

[trob]

I would add "...that actually worked."

lol yea I had the feeling at the meucci booth that it was bs to sell cues. I bought a sneaky pete to bang around with and honestly it hit the same whether the dot was up down or side ways.

 

[bstroud]

Meucci addressed the LD issue at the time by offering a very thin walled ferrule with lower mass. He did not drill out the front of the shaft.

The ferrules didn't hold up very well but the lower mass worked to reduce squirt and the shafts became very popular with many good players at the time.

We all know now that low mass at the tip is the answer to LD.

Bill S.

 

[rjb1168]

Bob Meucci was the first to experiment with and sell LD shafts.

In the early 80's when I had my shop on Garden of the Gods Rd. in CS, Terry Bell, Larry Hubbard and Jim Rempe would call me from Meuccis' office and explain what they were doing with LD ferrules and shafts.

They were good customers of mine and Bob had convinced them that LD was better.

I couldn't accept it at the time of course but in hindsight I now realize I was wrong.

This was way before anyone else even thought about LD shafts.

Bill S.

" The Myth Destroyer " Bob had it at SBE for a few years and not even Predator would put a cue on it. Bob had to buy one to prove his deflected less. I was right there watching and he was right across from the Predator booth. They were glareing at him .

 

[lorider]

it seems like the disdain people have for the apparent decline in quality that meucci produces today clouds their judgement of the innovator and pioneer bob was in his early days.

 

[JoeyInCali]

" The Myth Destroyer " Bob had it at SBE for a few years and not even Predator would put a cue on it. Bob had to buy one to prove his deflected less. I was right there watching and he was right across from the Predator booth. They were glareing at him .

Did it show less squirt or more English ?

 

[JoeyInCali]

it seems like the disdain people have for the apparent decline in quality that meucci produces today clouds their judgement of the innovator and pioneer bob was in his early days.

Do you believe his zero deflection claim ?
That the red dot really works ?
Bob also snubbed the laminated shafts and their claim for years.
Then he came out with the black dot flat lam shafts.

 

[bstroud]

Laminated shafts really have no effect on the Squirt? Defection of the cue ball?

But aligning the grain pattern so that it all points to the center of the shaft does provide a more consistent hitting shaft as you rotate it to a different position.

LD is all about mass at the ferrule and the density of the ferrule and the wood inside the ferrule. Lighter is better.

Bill S.

 

[macguy]

Laminated shafts really have no effect on the Squirt? Defection of the cue ball?

But aligning the grain pattern so that it all points to the center of the shaft does provide a more consistent hitting shaft as you rotate it to a different position.

LD is all about mass at the ferrule and the density of the ferrule and the wood inside the ferrule. Lighter is better.

Bill S.

Just curious, with that knowledge, did you ever do any changes to your own shafts to take advantage of the theory? The last shaft I made for myself has a 1/2 inch ferrule and is like very thin, almost no ferrule at all.

This information have been common knowledge for years but still most cues I work on have the standard 1" capped ferrule like has been used forever.
What is it with cue makers in that they don't adopt what they know will probably make a better shaft? The like to do the same old-same old.

 

[Wedge]

Will it come with a low deflection shaft?

Laminated shafts really have no effect on the Squirt? Defection of the cue ball?

But aligning the grain pattern so that it all points to the center of the shaft does provide a more consistent hitting shaft as you rotate it to a different position.

LD is all about mass at the ferrule and the density of the ferrule and the wood inside the ferrule. Lighter is better.

Bill S.

Design Your Dream - 09-30-2010, 03:35 PM
I am starting a new thread call Design Your Dream. I am offering the opportunity for anyone, player, cuemaker, collector, interested party to design the cue of their dreams. I will make it free of charge no matter what the price.

The rules are simple:

Present your design online on the AZ Billiards Main forum or the Cue and Case Gallery forum.

No gold, diamonds or other precious stones.

The design must consist of the usual cue materials. wood, ivory, silver, etc.

It can be as plain or as fancy as you like.

After a certain period, I will pick the 5 top designs.

Anyone that submitted a design can then vote for the design they like best.

I will make that design and present it to the winner at no charge.

Bill Stroud

 

[bstroud]

Just curious, with that knowledge, did you ever do any changes to your own shafts to take advantage of the theory? The last shaft I made for myself has a 1/2 inch ferrule and is like very thin, almost no ferrule at all.

This information have been common knowledge for years but still most cues I work on have the standard 1" capped ferrule like has been used forever.
What is it with cue makers in that they don't adopt what they know will probably make a better shaft? The like to do the same old-same old.

I designed the Universal SmartShaft some years ago.

I play with an LS version that has been tested on the Robot as LD.
It also will fit on any cue with the correct adapter.

The ferrule is a thin low density material mounted over a strong soft lightweight wood. This combination is what produces the LD characteristics.
It is also a radial laminated shaft.

If I still had the equipment and was still making cues I would look to 3D printing to produce a new kind of ferrule with all the LD advantages.

Most cuemakers seem to resist change or really don't play enough pool to realize that technology has improved most sports equipment and can improve pool as well.

Bill S.