Who's Chris Bartrum's Traveling Buddy?

[Bastian]

Good thread.. reminds me of those ethics problems that business seminars are made of.

On the one side, you have to wonder why the 'hustlers' don't just go get real jobs. On the other side, you have to consider whether you're really doing the weaker player a favor by knocking the action.

If you equate it to a little old lady putting her savings into a 'get rich quick' scheme and losing, I start to form an opinion.

If you tell the little old lady she will lose her money, so she decides against the investment, have you really saved her anything? If she thought she could gamble and win, she will likely make the same mistake again when you aren't around the help her.

Likewise, if someone is confident enough in their game to lay down $100 on it, and they get schooled, will they be more likely to think twice down the road before making such a wager? Probably so.. But if you stop them, telling them they will probably lose, are they going to think twice next time? Probably not.

We're not talking about a life's savings here.. we're talking about a small portion of a paycheck. They will probably get more for their money's worth from losing the set, and learning a lesson.

I think given the same opportunity, I'd tell an acquaintance something they need to know, regardless of the speed of their opponent:

Never, ever gamble more than you can afford to lose.

 

[JoeyA]

Good thread.. reminds me of those ethics problems that business seminars are made of.

On the one side, you have to wonder why the 'hustlers' don't just go get real jobs. On the other side, you have to consider whether you're really doing the weaker player a favor by knocking the action.

If you equate it to a little old lady putting her savings into a 'get rich quick' scheme and losing, I start to form an opinion.

If you tell the little old lady she will lose her money, so she decides against the investment, have you really saved her anything? If she thought she could gamble and win, she will likely make the same mistake again when you aren't around the help her.

Likewise, if someone is confident enough in their game to lay down $100 on it, and they get schooled, will they be more likely to think twice down the road before making such a wager? Probably so.. But if you stop them, telling them they will probably lose, are they going to think twice next time? Probably not.

We're not talking about a life's savings here.. we're talking about a small portion of a paycheck. They will probably get more for their money's worth from losing the set, and learning a lesson.

I think given the same opportunity, I'd tell an acquaintance something they need to know, regardless of the speed of their opponent:

Never, ever gamble more than you can afford to lose.

Your last line is the best advice.

When I would ask Earl Heisler, an old seasoned pool veteran of yesterday, whether I had a good game or not with a new competitor, he would look at my young face and say, "Maybe you might want to start off playing him some cheap, then if the game is right you can bet a litte higher. If the game is out of line, you can ask for an adjustment and still be able to play some more."

It was pretty good advice and I try to pass that on to others who have an interest in learning but like many others, I don't like to see a genuine heist. If one person has no chance of winning, why would I even want to see the game take place. I'm not going to learn anything. I'm not going to win anything. If I try to make a bet on the bandito, he will say I am knocking his game. So while I like road warriors, I don't like to see them theiving especially for semi-high stakes with decent locals who are going to be looking me in the face everyday after their loss wondering why I lied to them.

The road warriors can come to town and make money with holding a gun to the locals heads and I'm all for that.

I normally will tell any local player whatever I know if asked. When I am not asked I don't make it my business to get on the loudspeaker and say, "HEY THAT'S TONY CROSBY, THE BRITISH CHAMPION YOU'RE TRYING TO MATCH UP WITH OVER THERE."

JoeyA

 

[hippiepool]

It has happened to everyone who ever played good enough to lay down. I won't say I never played below my speed to keep someone playing, I have. Back in the early 80's, I played music and pool. If I wasn't doing one, I was out doing the other, and making good money for a young single guy. I played on my own money almost every time I gambled. I went to other towns and just walked in asking to play cheap sets. If I thought I couldn't win, I quit and found someone else to play. If it was a mismatch, and the guys buddy came in and told him, I didn't get mad.
Most of the older guys I know who played really good pool and was making a decent living at it, now have real jobs. Most end up owning some kind of business. One of my friends now sells insurance. He said it's just like hustling pool, but no-one walks up and knocks your action. There comes a time when you have to face reality. Pool is a nice profession, as long as you have some other kind of income to pay all your expenses.

Hey Sammy .... I believe his brother in law also sells insurance ...lol ...

 

[poolsucker]

It,s not like Chris and Jason were trying to sneak up on chumps and expect to to bet a nickle or dime!!!! Chris offered anyone from the northwest the 8ball and no takers. Northwest locals should support road players since it is off the beaten path. They don't get the chance of seing champions on a regular basis. Ther some pretty sporty players up there too. He even offered Glen Atwell the 8 ball. The funny thing is most locals up there thought Jason was the better player...LOL The just proves the southest is best for gambling!!! As for you knockers out there, try making an educated bet rather than knocking the game. Or better yet, play some cheap $200 sets and get some experience playing a stud for cheap!! You don't have to queer a players action to get some respect. Just say no thanks if you do not want to play. Peace to Knockers all alike!!

 

[Rubyron]

Northwest locals should support road players since it is off the beaten path. They don't get the chance of seing champions on a regular basis.

I'm not trying to be rude and I've never seen these two play but when I think "champion", neither of them come to mind. I've seen almost all the top pro's play and when I think "champion", I think of somebody who has actually won something big. I am sure they are awesome players but I am just not sure where "champions" applies.

Oh, did I mention that my team won my neighborhood bar league this year. I guess that makes us all "champions" too.

 

[huckster]

I'm not trying to be rude and I've never seen these two play but when I think "champion", neither of them come to mind. I've seen almost all the top pro's play and when I think "champion", I think of somebody who has actually won something big. I am sure they are awesome players but I am just not sure where "champions" applies.

Oh, did I mention that my team won my neighborhood bar league this year. I guess that makes us all "champions" too.

Chris Bartrum is a champion no doubt. If he had a 9ball break like Busta he would be a threat to win any tournament he entered (he still is). He is a bona-fide road man who goes to almost every town beats the best players and leaves with the money. Even if a player is 10 top in tournament winnings in the States he is struggling. Guys have to try to stay somewhat undercover to eek out a living. Most champions are not given their just due because the old adage of what does a large pizza and a professional pool player have in commom? (neither can feed a family of four rings true) I would classify Chris and guys like Chris as champions, anyone who is in the top thousandth percentile at something is a champion.

Huck

 

[Poolshootindon]

Hey Mc Woof Woof

Your what is wrong with pool...What is wrong with knowing the true speed of a player? Been in and out of pool for over 35 years and one thing has always stayed the same.. Someone always trying to take grannys bingo money..I commend anyone who would like to know what there up against before putting up there hard earned cash..Lets get past the carnival atmosphere... Don

 

[The Saw]

Your what is wrong with pool...What is wrong with knowing the true speed of a player? Been in and out of pool for over 35 years and one thing has always stayed the same.. Someone always trying to take grannys bingo money..I commend anyone who would like to know what there up against before putting up there hard earned cash..Lets get past the carnival atmosphere... Don

What you said just proves to me that you have know clue as to the way road men work.... They are not out "trying to take grannys bingo money"... They are out there to play people that have expendable cash and like to gamble. I.E.- Drug dealers, bookies, pimps, etc... and poolroom owners, poker players, business owners.... It erks most peeople that those who make illegal money don't pay taxes and if nothing else road men are collecting the taxes from them to redistribute the wealth. They get info on people that like to gamble and go play them, what is wrong with that? My whole problem (see my comments earlier in this thread) is that the people on here asking for player info are more often than not, not even involved in any of the action. They just want to be the first at the poolroom to crack the big case! As for the "trying to take grannys bingo money", I've seen that a couple of hundred times.... And every single time I've seen an instance like that it has been from a "wannabe" pool player in their home poolroom or bar, not a road player!!! If you have been around pool for 35 years you should know who I am talking about..... The guy that can only run 3-4 balls that watches The Hustler, TCOM, or Poolhall Junkies and decides they are a pool hustler. The only people we ever ran cons on are those that were gamblers that were trying to perpetrate, or likely to perpetrate, a con against us..... You people simply have msot road men pegged dead wrong!

Saw

 

[JoeyA]

What you said just proves to me that you have know clue as to the way road men work.... They are not out "trying to take grannys bingo money"...

They get info on people that like to gamble and go play them, what is wrong with that?

Saw

Nothing is wrong with getting information on potential opponents. It works both ways, though.

There are different ways to get info on a potential opponent. Sometimes you ask for it, sometimes it is given to you. Sometimes you get it from third parties or fourth parties. Sometimes a good Samaritan bestows their wisdom on a person who simply just doesn't know.

But the bottom line is you're not going to stop the flow of information especially on the Internet and the Cell Phone no matter how you try to paint the picture. Personally, I like to see a competitive game.

I've seen road players snapping cell phone pictures of potential players then sending it off to INFO CENTRAL to find out the potential opponent's speed.

Heists aren't worth watching even if it is a champion doing the heisting.
JoeyA

 

[Big Perm]

I don't get this whole arguement, it just doesn't make sense
People get all upset - don't post about so and so because you are gonna kill his ability to rob people.......but then they also admit - if that same guy was playing one of my best friends, I'd let the cat out of the bag....

So basically:

Road players should be able to rob because they are road players and they deserve to hustle people.....unless it's me or one of my friends because that would be wrong.......

LMFAO

 

[poolsucker]

Do you even know Chris!! I have seen play several dozen times, on the road and big tournaments. Not once trying to steal a $100 or $200. He offers fair weight to solid short stop players to make at least a dime or two. I seen him go busted several times. Sometimes he charity games from soft players. Those players know there not going to win, there just doing it for the experience. Sometimes those soft players get a mass amount weight and lose a pretty good score. Those guys are getting almost impossible to find anymore though.

 

[deadstroke7]

JCIN and Jay got it right. What they said.

Maybe PT Barnum was correct. A fool and his(her) money are soon parted.

 

[The Saw]

Nothing is wrong with getting information on potential opponents. It works both ways, though.

There are different ways to get info on a potential opponent. Sometimes you ask for it, sometimes it is given to you. Sometimes you get it from third parties or fourth parties. Sometimes a good Samaritan bestows their wisdom on a person who simply just doesn't know.

But the bottom line is you're not going to stop the flow of information especially on the Internet and the Cell Phone no matter how you try to paint the picture. Personally, I like to see a competitive game.

I've seen road players snapping cell phone pictures of potential players then sending it off to INFO CENTRAL to find out the potential opponent's speed.

Heists aren't worth watching even if it is a champion doing the heisting.
JoeyA

Joey,

I agree with you completely on all counts. It just erks me when the people that are in no way involved in the action come here and make a "shout out" that often begets bad info on the player in question... Case in point, in another thread here someone stated that McWhorter plays even with Shane McMinn and Banks Jr. When he actually plays the 6 ball under them. Now if someone down the line does a search here to see how they need to match up with Jamie and they read that one post he will never get any action. How fair is that??? I know Jamie doesn't have a lot of friends here but I am sure everyone gets the point. I see people give bad lines on players here all the time and being friends with a lot of them, it really gets me hot.... Trust me, I am a big fan of gambling info being on the net. I love hearing action reports of so and so played so and so with this weight and Player A won. With that info I can make an educated guess of how each player plays. But for someone to come here and lay out a line on a player like I mentioned earlier about Jamie is just dead wrong and it can't be exsponged... As for the road player taking picks with his cell, his initials wouldn't be D.G. would they?

Saw

 

[Poolshootindon]

HuH....

Saw...You said "It erks most peeople that those who make illegal money don't pay taxes and if nothing else road men are collecting the taxes from them to redistribute the wealth"...So these upstanding road players are just collecing the taxes..LMFAO...And i bet they just run to the IRS and pay those taxes...Or the taxes on the money they just won.. Nothing wrong with gambling..But there sure in hell shouldn't be anything wrong with knowing the speed of the player(s) your playing with.. But like most road players they all go bust in the end..LOL....

 

[JoeyA]

Joey,

I agree with you completely on all counts. It just erks me when the people that are in no way involved in the action come here and make a "shout out" that often begets bad info on the player in question... Case in point, in another thread here someone stated that McWhorter plays even with Shane McMinn and Banks Jr. When he actually plays the 6 ball under them. Now if someone down the line does a search here to see how they need to match up with Jamie and they read that one post he will never get any action. How fair is that??? I know Jamie doesn't have a lot of friends here but I am sure everyone gets the point. I see people give bad lines on players here all the time and being friends with a lot of them, it really gets me hot.... Trust me, I am a big fan of gambling info being on the net. I love hearing action reports of so and so played so and so with this weight and Player A won. With that info I can make an educated guess of how each player plays. But for someone to come here and lay out a line on a player like I mentioned earlier about Jamie is just dead wrong and it can't be exsponged... As for the road player taking picks with his cell, his initials wouldn't be D.G. would they?

Saw

I neither disklike Jamie nor like him but find him entertaining. It is too bad that his language got him barred. At the end I was trying to lighten him up to keep him around but I was too little too late.

"K" are you saying that it is OK to have information shared on the Internet about players as long as it is accurate information?

BTW, I agree that slamming another player because you don't like him and saying that he plays three balls better than he really plays sucks big time.
JoeyA

 

[The Saw]

I neither disklike Jamie nor like him but find him entertaining. It is too bad that his language got him barred. At the end I was trying to lighten him up to keep him around but I was too little too late.

I'm friends with Jamie and I will be the first to tell anyone that Jamie has been out of line with a lot of things he has said here. He has always worn his heart on his sleeve but he got off to a rough start and no one wised him up from the get go, including me. Then once people really started flaming him, it was over.... And it was over long ago!

"K" are you saying that it is OK to have information shared on the Internet about players as long as it is accurate information?

BTW, I agree that slamming another player because you don't like him and saying that he plays three balls better than he really plays sucks big time.
JoeyA

You can go ahead and say it Joey..... "K"irk. This Joey, he's got a mind like a steel trap..... You need any advice on some new playing shoes? I use "Saw" because most in pool circles know me by that.

Yes, it is perfectly fine IMO for people to give ACCURATE information here or anywhere on the net. Jamie just got his action flamed here earlier today. Saying that he plays even with McMinn and Banks Jr. That is literally the 6 ball off because Jamie hasn't played much in the past two years. When he was playing his best pool Shane could have given him the 7 and got away with it. How fair is it to Jamie that everyone that does a search for a line on Jamie is going to see that? Sure, Jamie got out of line posting here but he doesn't deserve to have his skill over rated like that no matter what the person that posted that thinks or hears. If Jamie beat someone that plays McMinn's speed, even, gambling and someone posted that here, then they have legitimate reason to say that Jamie plays McMinn's speed. But for the person to say "The person I got the info from is very reliable & very close to McNugget." That my friend is the perfect example of what we are talking about... I love to see people matched up close and see them grind it out. To me that is what makes a true player, those that have the heart to dig deep and grind. Bartram is one of my best friends and is my pool playing hero because he is the best grinder in the business. Who is the toughest action I ever played you may ask? Jamie McWhorter.... We both have so much grind in us that we would literally try to kill each other. Believe me, Jamie became the player he is because the kid has tons of heart! I would have clarified all that way earlier in this thread but I got perturbed and just walked away instead of going off.

Little windy there Joey but I had to preach to the choir......

KkkiiiiiiiiiSaw- Just can't bring myself to do it......

 

[ShootingArts]

Much of the information on the net is BS

Much of the information on the internet is worthless including much of the information about a player's speed. I saw JF and FH play a few hours of one-pocket and finish pretty much even. Must mean that they play one pocket the same speed.(BS) I saw AB play FH about even a few years ago so they play the same speed today.(BS!) Therefore AB and JH play about the same speed.(total BS!)

Hot recent information from the net can help a bit but anyone that is matching up using most of this net information is in for a long hard ride. Worse, a lot of match ups aren't happening because of misleading information from the net.

I watched the best player I personally have ever ran across getting scuffed up pretty bad one day. Musta been a world class champeeen whup'n on him huh? Nope, he was into his third day on the pool table nonstop and he was still going when I left. I could have taken him down one handed at that point. Rating people based on one encounter is always questionable.

Hu

Yes, it is perfectly fine IMO for people to give ACCURATE information here or anywhere on the net. Jamie just got his action flamed here earlier today. Saying that he plays even with McMinn and Banks Jr. That is literally the 6 ball off because Jamie hasn't played much in the past two years. When he was playing his best pool Shane could have given him the 7 and got away with it. How fair is it to Jamie that everyone that does a search for a line on Jamie is going to see that? Sure, Jamie got out of line posting here but he doesn't deserve to have his skill over rated like that no matter what the person that posted that thinks or hears. If Jamie beat someone that plays McMinn's speed, even, gambling and someone posted that here, then they have legitimate reason to say that Jamie plays McMinn's speed. But for the person to say "The person I got the info from is very reliable & very close to McNugget." That my friend is the perfect example of what we are talking about... I love to see people matched up close and see them grind it out. To me that is what makes a true player, those that have the heart to dig deep and grind. Bartram is one of my best friends and is my pool playing hero because he is the best grinder in the business. Who is the toughest action I ever played you may ask? Jamie McWhorter.... We both have so much grind in us that we would literally try to kill each other. Believe me, Jamie became the player he is because the kid has tons of heart! I would have clarified all that way earlier in this thread but I got perturbed and just walked away instead of going off.

Little windy there Joey but I had to preach to the choir......

KkkiiiiiiiiiSaw- Just can't bring myself to do it......

 

[watchez]

JAMIE MCWHORTER PLAYS MUCH CLOSER TO SHANE MCMINN & MIKE BANKS JR, THEN HE DOES TO NEEDING THE SIX BALL

Please tell me the last time you actually SAW McMinn or Banks Jr. hit a ball that was not an internet broadcast.

Please tell us the last gambling match that McNugget had & the outcome.

And yes, this is from a reliable source.

 

[The Saw]

JAMIE MCWHORTER PLAYS MUCH CLOSER TO SHANE MCMINN & MIKE BANKS JR, THEN HE DOES TO NEEDING THE SIX BALL

Please tell me the last time you actually SAW McMinn or Banks Jr. hit a ball that was not an internet broadcast.

Please tell us the last gambling match that McNugget had & the outcome.

And yes, this is from a reliable source.

BIG BOLD RED CAPS..... Man, I never seen even Jamie get that mad!

The Last Time I Seen Shane Play Was When He Stayed Here In Columbus 2-3 Years Ago. The last time I really seen him gambling was in Ft. Smith, AR when he played Keith Bennet a set playing even for a couple of dimes.... Keith was playing good and it took Keith a few hours to beat him. So yeah, I have an idea of how the kid plays........ My sources say that Shane plays just as good now, if not better. As for Junior, the webcast is the only time I have seen the kid play. I sweated a lot of it and it's pretty obvious that the kids "got it"! Big stroke, big break, good demeanor.... My sources say that Mike is on the improve and that he is a true talent, not just a flash in the pan. You enlighten us with your reliable source and I will enlighten you with mine..... Put up with your reliable source or shut up with your reliable source!

As for the last gambling match Jamie had.... Can't tell ya..... I quit auditing his books a long time ago......

 

[watchez]

Okay I am ready to reveal my source......it is

our very own Mr. Wilson, the most honorable person on this site.