Why a ferrule???

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Reading some posts in other threads about some new-style of LD shafts with no ferrule has me wondering: Why was the ferrule invented? Why wasn't the leather tip just glued to the end of the shaft? I think I know the answer so tell me if this is right (or close to right).

The ferrule is to protect the wood on the end of the cue from splintering from repeated pounding into the cueball. Easier to install a new ferrule than to shorten one's cue until it's no longer playable. I say/think this because I have seen the damage the pounding has done to ferrules on cues where the tips are too worn down.

Am I right? And.....what's going to happen to these new LD shafts from all the repeated pounding???

Maniac
 
Tradition. It's a good bet due to your reasoning that a ferrule pre-dates the tip. Chalk pre-dates the tip which means shafts were subject to split ends and needed protection or repair. With a tip and pad, no ferrule is needed IMO.

Fred <~~~ needs protection
 
Perhaps that was true in the old days using contact cement, not with today's epoxies. Having played with a ferrule-less shaft I think another reason is to minimize chalk wear/stains on the shaft. Before Magic Eraser came along, it was easier to clean chalk from a ferrule than from a shaft.

you cannot get a good glue joint gluing leather to end grain either
 
Perhaps that was true in the old days using contact cement, not with today's epoxies. Having played with a ferrule-less shaft I think another reason is to minimize chalk wear/stains on the shaft. Before Magic Eraser came along, it was easier to clean chalk from a ferrule than from a shaft.

I suppose this can also be fixed with Mike Gulyassy's Shaft Freeze as well. I'd love to do that on a new Predator.
 
Reading some posts in other threads about some new-style of LD shafts with no ferrule has me wondering: Why was the ferrule invented? Why wasn't the leather tip just glued to the end of the shaft? I think I know the answer so tell me if this is right (or close to right).

The ferrule is to protect the wood on the end of the cue from splintering from repeated pounding into the cueball. Easier to install a new ferrule than to shorten one's cue until it's no longer playable. I say/think this because I have seen the damage the pounding has done to ferrules on cues where the tips are too worn down.

Am I right? And.....what's going to happen to these new LD shafts from all the repeated pounding???

Maniac

You're right. A thin carbon fiber pad would protect the wood just fine and the ferrule would be history.

Short white ferrules do give a tip sighting point I like.

Ferrules were from a time when tips got too low and glues were weak.

Chris
 
You're right. A thin carbon fiber pad would protect the wood just fine and the ferrule would be history.

Short white ferrules do give a tip sighting point I like.

Ferrules were from a time when tips got too low and glues were weak.

Chris

seriously?

first, great question! haha. so why does a LD shaft companie like predator even go through all the trouble of making ferrules like that?

i really cant believe this. it reminds me of the english vs metric system... if its no longer needed, why the hell not get rid of it?!
 
I have several cues without ferrules and have had no problems with them. Gorilla glut expands and fills gaps well. I don't make it a practice to break with these cues but have on occasion.
 
I did, and the results are fantastic. You have to be willing to try it to understand.

i am willing. in fact, i once tried to get a cuemaker to make a cue for me without a weight bolt (just a solid piece of wood for the but), and told him forget what it weighs, he thought i was crazy.... but now i see this, i had NO idea. wow. so now im thinking, no weight bolt, and no ferrule and ill really be onto something, like no joke.

another good thread!!
 
this is a cool thread, and the OP's question is exactly why I went with the OB1 shaft. I felt the OB set up is the most solid by far. Now when I pick up my other cues with white ferrules it is VERY distracting.

on the same topic......whats up with the screw on Snooker tips?....I guess it works, but I dunno?


G.
 
I had a sneaky with a ferruless shaft. Just a fiber pad. I was expecting to feel a very stiff hit with the obvious ping or tink sound. Not at all. The end of the shaft was cored a few inches and epoxy/filler was used.

Balls went into the pocket as well as any shaft with a ferrule so there was little deflection if any.
Less end mass = less deflection.

The first inch of wood was cleared with CA so not any different than using an OB shaft with a wood ferrule as far as sighting goes.
Of course, the CA will also protect the first inch from staining too.

You'd have to try one yourself and see what you think. You might be pleasantly surprised.

I plan on making and testing some out myself this winter.
 
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Billiard balls were quite heavy back in the day and were borrowed from a game played outdoors on the pitch. They're weren't made of synthetic, carefully weighted materials like they are today. So, even with a pad/tip, cues were subjected to extraordinary amounts of energy at their heads, hence a ferrule was used to prevent the shafts from splitting. The necessity of a ferrule is still debated today, at least in realm of english pool and snooker where the cues are much more delicate in comparison to the mass of the balls. Most would agree, though, that a brass ferrule is almost strictly traditional since other composites have been replacing it quite readily.
 
That is not true, I have all the major sets of balls made in the last century, I am a collector and have sets from every decade in the 20th century, and even my clay balls from the early 1920's weigh around 5.8, where todays balls weigh 6.0. I check balls on a high end digital scale, every ball I weigh.

Every long set I play, I hit a jump shot and a Masse with my regular cue, and do that with out a ferrule, and your end of your shaft is going to look like a banana peel when it blows up. Yes I carry a dedicated jump cue and a dedicated masse cue, but on simple shots, I dont have to pull them out. I hit a lot of force follows, force draws playing 9 ball with tremendous force especially when I am on a 9' table with old slow house cloth, I have to pound the ball, to go up and down table on many shots.
I dont play but once a week, so I am out of stroke a lot, and get out of line a lot, which requires me to grip and rip it to get back in line.

I intend to keep my ferrule on. I like the saying, if it aint broke, then dont go trying to fix it. Leave it alone and focus on something else.

The people who started this, Jewett was one of them, are 3-cushion players. Carom Ball – 61.5 mm (2 7⁄16 in)
American-style pool Ball – 57 mm (2 1⁄4 in)

Their ball is a little bigger, we use it as a cue ball on some bar boxes, and yes, it is a little heavier, not much, and its made out of the same material as the pool ball.

Making a 3 cushion bank with it, on a 3-c table, requires about 50% less power than the same shot on a pool table. They have these tables now so hot, they can just peck the ball and go 5 or 6 rails. Force is rarely now used on a shot, it all a soft game of finess shots. I do play the game, now and then. I have played Sang Lee and Culemans.

They are on a $12,000 Verhoven, with 300 cloth and a heated slate, and german artemis rubber, and those balls are highly polished and hotter that the pool cue ball. Their table is 50-75% faster, than the average pool hall pocket table. I tell you this so you can make comparisons.

I could see where this might work in 3-c, or even snooker, but pool, that one really scares me. I'll just sit back, and observe this one if you dont mind. I am not putting any money out on this, I find it to be high risk. I dont want to cut my stroke back to peck and poke. When I see Johnny, Earl, Efren and all the big boys using it, then I'll check it out. Promise I will. Lots of luck, to the rest of you.
 
Ever see the Predator BK without a tip on?
Very thin shaft and ferrule wall. They use a pad also. If a break shaft with those attributes can handle it, so can a ferruless shaft that has been built properly.
One of the cue makers that does make a ferruless shaft plays with his, claims he also breaks with it. No problems so far.

I would have no qualms about hitting a ball as hard as need be with one of those shafts.
 
Interesting question.
Also. Is a ferrule <I>is</I> needed (to protect the shaft and/or make re-tipping easier, then why not use a much smaller (lighter) one?
I did consider this when I was about to get some repairs done to my snooker cue. But I did some rough calculations, and it didn't look as if it would have any appreciable effect on deflection.
 
az member,patrick juhlin,is building cues and his shafts do not have a ferrell.pad on wood, tip on pad.you can do everything with it you can do with a shaft that has a ferrell.if you want more information pm patrick on here.he builds a heck of a shaft.imo
 
Purpose for a ferule:

* "Intended" to protect end grain.
* Better base for adhering tip.
* Allows for better facing of surface during a retipping ,
plus no wood removal to shorten shaft length over time.
* Protects shaft from poor chalking technique.
* Acts as a buffer to help retain shaft diameter during 'maintainance'.
* Style and appearance. Same as any other ring work.
* Tradition.
* Really nothing to be gained by not having one. (end mass can be equalled or even redused with the right ferule material)

Do you really need one ?

Probably not anymore than you need inlays or ring work or points or veneers or a wrap or fancy wood grain or even any real wood or . . . . .
 
seriously?

first, great question! haha. so why does a LD shaft companie like predator even go through all the trouble of making ferrules like that?

i really cant believe this. it reminds me of the english vs metric system... if its no longer needed, why the hell not get rid of it?!

Yes - in fact, ferrules have become a weak point for a cue - just another thing glued on that can come loose. They require a weak tenon or they themselves are so thin they do nothing anyway.

The main reason to use a ferrule is to make cleaning the chalk dust a little easier, and give some protection to the end of the cue in case the player lets the tip go down too far.

Carbon fiber or phenolic are extremly tough materials. A simple thin carbon fiber or phenolic pad would be a very good substitute for a ferrule. In fact, I've often thought that a tip made up of layered leather (like a Sniper or Moori) with an integrated carbon fiber backing pad would be all that's needed to completely replace a ferrule.

Chris
 
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Yes - in fact, ferrules have become a weak point for a cue. They require a weak tenon or they themselves are so thin they do nothing anyway.

The main reason to use a ferrule is to make cleaning the chalk dust a little easier, and give some protection to the end of the cue in case the player lets the tip go down too far.

Carbon fiber or phenolic are extremly tough materials. A simple thin carbon fiber or phenolic pad would be a very good substitute for a ferrule. In fact, I've often thought that a tip made up of layered leather (like a Sniper or Moori) with an integrated carbon fiber backing pad would be all that's needed to completely replace a ferrule.

Chris

I thought the same thing a couple years ago and have experienced tremendous success with my CA$H ferruleless shaft. I hope everyone who is intrigued by the thought of a ferrule-less shaft will try one.


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http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=151655
 
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