Why are some cuemakers ( * )'s

SSach

SSach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have purchased many cues throughout the years. Not the most and I know I have not spent the most. But some of the rants on these threads makes sure that I will never order a cue or buy one second hand from some cue makers. This includes some dealers who have a personal agenda to promote only for the $$$.

To all the cue makers, let your work do the talk. Listen and accept feedback until you think you are at a point where you have built a reputation that creates a buzz and has defined you.

I know that this is a Gallery thread, but I think it is appropriate since so many buyers and cue makers visit this section.

I know of a GREAT cue maker who said if you don't like what I give you I will take it back and build you one until you are satisfied. I am being patient and waiting, but I know he is one of the best and a perfectionist. HIS WORK speaks for itself - no wonder no one can bash him.

Again...just venting at some of the stupidity I am seeing. Hopefully I am not alone in my thoughts.

SS
 
SSach said:
I have purchased many cues throughout the years. Not the most and I know I have not spent the most. But some of the rants on these threads makes sure that I will never order a cue or buy one second hand from some cue makers. This includes some dealers who have a personal agenda to promote only for the $$$.

To all the cue makers, let your work do the talk. Listen and accept feedback until you think you are at a point where you have built a reputation that creates a buzz and has defined you.

I know that this is a Gallery thread, but I think it is appropriate since so many buyers and cue makers visit this section.

I know of a GREAT cue maker who said if you don't like what I give you I will take it back and build you one until you are satisfied. I am being patient and waiting, but I know he is one of the best and a perfectionist. HIS WORK speaks for itself - no wonder no one can bash him.

Again...just venting at some of the stupidity I am seeing. Hopefully I am not alone in my thoughts.



SS
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That is some very good advice. I don't understand why you are so high strung though. You have already found a GREAT cue maker who will keep taking cues back. I have to ask though, has this person made a cue to your specs and then taken it back because you didn't like it?

I can tell you what frustrates cuemakers and can cause them to be grumpy though. That is having someone walk into your shop and having them say 250.00 is "alot for some wood" when you quote them the price for a sneaky from a new Schmelke blank. I don't know if saying "You can probably get something from China for 40.00 bucks" is rude, but that is exactly what I said.

The above happens all the time because very few people realize the amount of work it takes to do the job RIGHT. For instance, by the time I am done picking up and delivering, cleaning, sealing, installing and shaping at tip and shaft, I net about 10 bucks after gas. If that isn't bad enough, some people think I charge too much....

As far as bashing, I really don't see all that much of it at all. Almost everyone here has been supportive. The only people I have ever bashed have screwed me out of money and or product. That grudge won't go away...

BTW dealers ARE in it for the money, so why not promote?
 
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im so baffled & dazzled,
after staring at your avatar for 5 minutes,
to see what it really is,
i forgot what i was going to say ;)

kudos to your cuemaker
 
BOY do I agree with all you said. I just went through many conversations with a very well known builder. He agreed to work with me on the very first cue design of my own. After multiple phone calls discussing costs and different designs he has started work on the cue. He was good enough to even mail me four different forearms to look at and choose from. During the entire process he was patient, willing to make helpful suggestions, and absolutely great to work with. His expertise, professionalism, and demeanor never once wavered nor did he ever make me feel like I was being a pain in the arse!! To be honest I was worried about that last one because I am very detailed in the way I approach things to the point of being somewhat anal! At this point I have sent him close to 50% as my deposit and have absolutely nothing to worry about, I am completely confident that the cue will be done on time and at the cost quoted.. I have done business with this gentleman in the past and expect that everything he has told me will happen exactly as he said it would. When I read the horror stories created by some of the "cuemakers" I just shake my head and wonder why did so & so choose to do business with that person. There are quite a few of great cuemakers that do keep to time schedules and are totally trustworthy!!
 
I have purchased cues from $25 (when I didn't know what a cue was) to well over 5K. When I am working with a cue maker there has to be a mutual understanding and respect. I don't take shots in the dark with cue makers. Either I have met them through someone, played with their cues and have been introduced or communicated with them at a show/pool room and had some good interaction.

Customers can be a pain in the ass but I am not talking about customers. I am talking about the cue maker who puts down other cue makers like he is trying to prove that his ___ is the biggest around.

If I wanted a heavily inlayed cue i know who I would be reaching out to. If I want a traditional cue I have a cue maker in mind. If I see a new cue maker who is making a statement I will call him and talk to him and see if he can make what i am looking for. A great cue maker creates a tradition and has attributes that defines his work. Take Harvey Martin and his PJ cues - Legacy!

I never mentioned a price of a cue. Reasons for prices are between buyer and cue maker - If an agreement can be met both parties should just walk away and not take it personal. Now on the other hand if a deal is struck and all of a sudden someone is being nickled and dimed that is another story.

"BTW dealers ARE in it for the money, so why not promote?"

Really every cue they sell is "amazing" drops in value like a used Yugo and no one will want it afterwards. That is the problem, especially for the guys just starting to understand cues and the values attached to them.
---

As far as why I started this. I order a cue every year or so in hopes to have one cue added to my collection yearly. I research and choose who i will commission to make me a cue because of various reasons. I try my hardest not to contact them to avoid being the pain in the ass harassing customer. I wouldn't hesitate to cancel an order if i saw some of the ignorance displayed at a show or on a website.
 
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SSach said:
I have purchased cues from $25 (when I didn't know what a cue was) to well over 5K. When I am working with a cue maker there has to be a mutual understanding and respect. I don't take shots in the dark with cue makers. Either I have met them through someone, played with their cues and have been introduced or communicated with them at a show/pool room and had some good interaction.

Customers can be a pain in the ass but I am not talking about customers. I am talking about the cue maker who puts down other cue makers like he is trying to prove that his ___ is the biggest around.

If I wanted a heavily inlayed cue i know who I would be reaching out to. If I want a traditional cue I have a cue maker in mind. If I see a new cue maker who is making a statement I will call him and talk to him and see if he can make what i am looking for. A great cue maker creates a tradition and has attributes that defines his work. Take Harvey Martin and his PJ cues - Legacy!

I never mentioned a price of a cue. Reasons for prices are between buyer and cue maker - If an agreement can be met both parties should just walk away and not take it personal. Now on the other hand if a deal is struck and all of a sudden someone is being nickled and dimed that is another story.

As far as why I started this. I order a cue every year or so in hopes to have one cue added to my collection yearly. I research and choose who i will commission to make me a cue because of various reasons. I try my hardest not to contact them to avoid being the pain in the ass harassing customer. I wouldn't hesitate to cancel an order if i saw some of the ignorance displayed at a show or on a website.
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Hi,

The best thing one can do is to buy a cue that is already finished that suits their eye, taste and most of all playability specs.

If the cue maker is smart he builds inventory then has cues to sell where the buyer can test feel and smell it up close. Cash and carry always builds the best long term business relationships and good will that is lasting and brings satisfaction to both parties.

Unless you are looking for a very special "Big Cue" with tons of ivory inlays and fancy geometry there is not too much reason to get on with the waiting list thing and all that goes with that.

JMO,

Rick G
 
EDIT: I apologize for the following. I leave it here only to remind me that I can be such a jackass.

I have no idea what this is about, and I have excellent reading comprehension, in the top 1% as a matter of fact. I have read these forums thoroughly for some time. And still.....I don't know what this is about. There are many rants that I have seen and I simply have no idea which ones this might have anything to do with. Maybe, just maybe, it will be clarified.

I have purchased cues from $25 (when I didn't know what a cue was) to well over 5K.
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I have bought cues for $25.00, I do know what a cue is, and I'll do it again. I suspect at this point that I know far better what one is than the OP, otherwise he wouldn't have had to announce to the rest of us that he knows what a cue is. I don't commission a cue every year and I hope with every fiber of my being that I never lose myself and operate that way because it will mean I forgot what a cue is.

I am supportive of the cue makers. Not the buyers. Not the dealers. Not the collectors. The cue makers. The artists. The art. I am not impressed with anybody's ability to buy or commission any cue. Ever.

I have no idea what the rant is about, maybe it can be clarified. But I am certain that the statement I quoted above is insulting to the majority because the majority simply cannot afford to commission a cue every year.

The OP is right about one thing. This is the gallery and I don't see a picture of a case or a cue.


That statement quoted above got me so steamed I had to literally step out of my office, go outside, and suck in some fresh air.

I came back in, pulled the Fellini out, and I am holding my cue. I know what a cue is. I have been shooting with it since 1985, that's 27 years. That's a cue. I bought it for $35.00. You can't commission that. Ever.

My cues span 100 years, their various values are irrelevant in light of my one cue, the one that put me through college, the one that made me a doctor, the one that makes every cue you have commissioned look like a broomstick, and a cheap one at that.

With that cue I have played people you now watch on ESPN. You now call the Billiards Digest, Pool and Billiards, and The Snap magazines with their pictures on them "collectible". Most of them are broke and uneducated as far as I know. I remained anonymous. Some of the people I played and beat for tuition money are featured in books and articles now as road players of legendary status, yet you would have no idea who I am. There is only one point in all of this. It ain't about me. It's about the cue I am holding right now in my hands. It's a cue. You don't have one. You don't even know what one is.

Yeah. I'm pissed.
 
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SSach said:
- Legacy!



"BTW dealers ARE in it for the money, so why not promote?"

Really every cue they sell is "amazing" drops in value like a used Yugo and no one will want it afterwards. That is the problem, especially for the guys just starting to understand cues and the values attached to them.
---

As far as why I started this. I order a cue every year or so in hopes to have one cue added to my collection yearly. I research and choose who i will commission to make me a cue because of various reasons. I try my hardest not to contact them to avoid being the pain in the ass harassing customer. I wouldn't hesitate to cancel an order if i saw some of the ignorance displayed at a show or on a website.
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I try not to carry yugos LOL. But i have a written policy that if you purchase a cue from us, new or used. and 1 week later or 6 years later and if you played it or not. we give 100% less shipping twards a up graded cue that we OWN !as long as you dont turn shafts down alter the cue in some way wrap or leave it in your trunk and let it warp ect.minor blemishes scratch or shaft bluing allowed! so you get to play with the cue and trade up at any time and only lose shipping!!! try that wit a new caddilac! it is a no questions asked
 
SSach said:
I have purchased many cues throughout the years. Not the most and I know I have not spent the most. But some of the rants on these threads makes sure that I will never order a cue or buy one second hand from some cue makers. This includes some dealers who have a personal agenda to promote only for the $$$.

To all the cue makers, let your work do the talk. Listen and accept feedback until you think you are at a point where you have built a reputation that creates a buzz and has defined you.

I know that this is a Gallery thread, but I think it is appropriate since so many buyers and cue makers visit this section.

I know of a GREAT cue maker who said if you don't like what I give you I will take it back and build you one until you are satisfied. I am being patient and waiting, but I know he is one of the best and a perfectionist. HIS WORK speaks for itself - no wonder no one can bash him.

Again...just venting at some of the stupidity I am seeing. Hopefully I am not alone in my thoughts.

SS
Click to expand...

On these forums it's a double edged sword. Each thing that we put out is a part of us. It's like a child and no one likes to see their children bashed by others no matter if they are right or not. It takes a lot of personal strength to sit back and let criticism wash over you without getting defensive. Many people, me included, don't have that strength.

Recently I am reminded that it's better to just stay out of things and keep my opinion to myself. The stronger the opinion the more it is likely to polarize the readers and cause strife.

I hate being addicted to these forums........I'd much rather be addicted to drugs because at least there is some pleasure in that. Someone send me some shrooms and if the trip is good then I promise to show up with groovy cases and love to spread around......
 
Chopdoc said:
I have no idea what this is about, and I have excellent reading comprehension, in the top 1% as a matter of fact. I have read these forums thoroughly for some time. And still.....I don't know what this is about. There are many rants that I have seen and I simply have no idea which ones this might have anything to do with. Maybe, just maybe, it will be clarified.



I have bought cues for $25.00, I do know what a cue is, and I'll do it again. I suspect at this point that I know far better what one is than the OP, otherwise he wouldn't have had to announce to the rest of us that he knows what a cue is. I don't commission a cue every year and I hope with every fiber of my being that I never lose myself and operate that way because it will mean I forgot what a cue is.

I am supportive of the cue makers. Not the buyers. Not the dealers. Not the collectors. The cue makers. The artists. The art. I am not impressed with anybody's ability to buy or commission any cue. Ever.

I have no idea what the rant is about, maybe it can be clarified. But I am certain that the statement I quoted above is insulting to the majority because the majority simply cannot afford to commission a cue every year.

The OP is right about one thing. This is the gallery and I don't see a picture of a case or a cue.


That statement quoted above got me so steamed I had to literally step out of my office, go outside, and suck in some fresh air.

I came back in, pulled the Fellini out, and I am holding my cue. I know what a cue is. I have been shooting with it since 1985, that's 27 years. That's a cue. I bought it for $35.00. You can't commission that. Ever.

My cues span 100 years, their various values are irrelevant in light of my one cue, the one that put me through college, the one that made me a doctor, the one that makes every cue you have commissioned look like a broomstick, and a cheap one at that.

With that cue I have played people you now watch on ESPN. You now call the Billiards Digest, Pool and Billiards, and The Snap magazines with their pictures on them "collectible". Most of them are broke and uneducated as far as I know. I remained anonymous. Some of the people I played and beat for tuition money are featured in books and articles now as road players of legendary status, yet you would have no idea who I am. There is only one point in all of this. It ain't about me. It's about the cue I am holding right now in my hands. It's a cue. You don't have one. You don't even know what one is.

Yeah. I'm pissed.
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damn, i dont normally get in these situations but i just got to comment on this post.

you come on here saying you dont comprehend what the op is posting and then you go off on him saying he is insulting other buyers that cant afford to buy a cue every year. how do you know he was insulting if you dont comprehend ?

then you go on a rant insulting his knowledge of cues and bragging about your 27 year old 35.00 cue that makes his cues look like cheap broomsticks. then you brag about hustling all these once famous players that are now uneducated and broke to pay your way through college.

let me see if this uneducated poor pool player that has a 5,000.00 custom that looks like a broomstick next to your 27 year old 35.00 cue can explain what is going on so your college educated ass can understand.

the op is talking about what is going on in the soap opera/ cue of the year thread among others.

you got people pissed cuz there favs did not win, callin out other posters threatening to whip their ass or challenge them to a 20,000.00 match.

then you got a well known egotistical cue maker berating the cue maker that won the poll. now he has turned that thread into a pissing match with none other than john barton, the guy who probably gets into an argument with himself when he finds no one on here to argue with.

thomas wayne has made some amazing cues. i love the one that was voted a monster on cuezilla. i would not buy a cue from him if he offered it to me half price because of his condescendig attitude towards.

i could give more examples of what the op is talking about but i hope you catch my drift here.

i think you owe the op an apology.
 
lorider said:
i could give more examples of what the op is talking about but i hope you catch my drift here.

i think you owe the op an apology.
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You're right.

I do apologize, and not just to the OP but to the readers in general.

I popped a cork. It really had less to do with the post than it did things on my end putting me under pressure and me not dealing with it well. I ended up being overly sensitive.

I was going to delete the post, but I would rather leave it so I remember what a jackass I can be.


I understand now what this is about. It's actually something that ticked me off as well and I butted heads in that thread with an apparently arrogant cue maker myself. Funny, I don't even know what cue won!

Anyway, enough of me talking. This is me shutting up and saying I am sorry for talking like a jackass.
 
I love this forum. Lots of interesting people and always some crazy shite going on to read about. I just like to look at all the cool, historic, artistic and sometimes ugly cues and occassionally pull the trigger and buy one. Whether from a maker, dealer or another cuejunky, does not matter. Again, I love this forum.
 
Quesports said:
BOY do I agree with all you said. I just went through many conversations with a very well known builder. He agreed to work with me on the very first cue design of my own. After multiple phone calls discussing costs and different designs he has started work on the cue. He was good enough to even mail me four different forearms to look at and choose from. During the entire process he was patient, willing to make helpful suggestions, and absolutely great to work with. His expertise, professionalism, and demeanor never once wavered nor did he ever make me feel like I was being a pain in the arse!! To be honest I was worried about that last one because I am very detailed in the way I approach things to the point of being somewhat anal! At this point I have sent him close to 50% as my deposit and have absolutely nothing to worry about, I am completely confident that the cue will be done on time and at the cost quoted.. I have done business with this gentleman in the past and expect that everything he has told me will happen exactly as he said it would. When I read the horror stories created by some of the "cuemakers" I just shake my head and wonder why did so & so choose to do business with that person. There are quite a few of great cuemakers that do keep to time schedules and are totally trustworthy!!
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Wow, I'm the exact same way, and I feel the exact same thing about the Cue-
maker that I'm dealing with right now. I'm just gonna come out and say it tho.
My guy is Kenny Murrell. One of the best down to earth guys you'll ever talk to.
Oh, and he makes one helluva cue too!:thumbup:
 
BHQ said:
im so baffled & dazzled,
after staring at your avatar for 5 minutes,
to see what it really is,
i forgot what i was going to say ;)

kudos to your cuemaker
Click to expand...

you mean the lamp wasnt obvious??:grin-square:
 
It's OK to vent, but asking "Why are some cuemakers ( * )'s ". Is about as silly as asking why SOME cops are *****s or asking why SOME teachers are prudes. The truth is they are people. Some have bad days, years or decades. You never know what is going on behind the key board. If you don't like how they act. Then just move on.

But telling all cuemakers, wana-be-cuemakers, and make believe cuemakers how to act. Is as out of line as us telling the customers how to act.

Sorry just venting!

I too like your avatar. One of the more interesting ones I have seen.

Larry
 
63Kcode said:
It's OK to vent, but asking "Why are some cuemakers ( * )'s ". Is about as silly as asking why SOME cops are *****s or asking why SOME teachers are prudes. The truth is they are people. Some have bad days, years or decades. You never know what is going on behind the key board. If you don't like how they act. Then just move on.

But telling all cuemakers, wana-be-cuemakers, and make believe cuemakers how to act. Is as out of line as us telling the customers how to act.

Sorry just venting!

I too like your avatar. One of the more interesting ones I have seen.

Larry
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OK, I want to thank EVERYONE who has officially RUINED that avatar for me now!!!!

A LAMP.....really????
 
Chopdoc said:
You're right.

I do apologize, and not just to the OP but to the readers in general.

I popped a cork. It really had less to do with the post than it did things on my end putting me under pressure and me not dealing with it well. I ended up being overly sensitive.

I was going to delete the post, but I would rather leave it so I remember what a jackass I can be.


I understand now what this is about. It's actually something that ticked me off as well and I butted heads in that thread with an apparently arrogant cue maker myself. Funny, I don't even know what cue won!

Anyway, enough of me talking. This is me shutting up and saying I am sorry for talking like a jackass.
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in my post i was going to ask if you was having a bad day or something. most of your posts are always on the positive side.

i come down on you a little hard in my post because you got a little ugly in your post. i would not really call you a jackass but i would not disagree that you came across as one in your post lol.

every body has a bad day now and then , i commend you for apologizing.

it got ugly in the cue of the year thread last night, i see some of the posts are deleted today.

i agree with the op, i refuse to do bussiness with people that have attitudes like that.
 
I actually stopped reading that Cue Of The Year thread some time ago, I had a feeling it was only going to get worse and I try not to get sucked into things.....but I did anyway in this thread.



Thanks for your kind understanding. :)

Yes, everybody can react poorly under stress....but I don't excuse myself. I am glad you called me on it. You really didn't come down on me hard. You simply called me on it, toe to toe, with no BS. That's a good thing.

:thumbup:
 
To the OP - well stated post. I've spoken to numerous cuemakers over the last couple years. Some I will never deal with again because of their attitude...some I will not deal with because of their demeanor and comments they've posted in this forum...

Others however, have shown me that they not only have a deep passion for making cues, but they're GREAT people in general...and they're the one's I will continue to deal with...some are considered "up & coming" and don't get the full credit they deserve yet and I hope that once they become "better known" that their attitude remains the same...time will tell...

Chopdoc said:
Yes, everybody can react poorly under stress....
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Wow Doc...when you step on your wee-wee, you really step on your wee-wee!!! ;) I thought I was the only one capable of sprouting donkey ears as I was making an a$$ out of myself!!! Now, with that being said, you have impressed me more and more every time I see your posts...kudos to you for leaving your "reminder" post in place...and major kudos for the apology...

From now on, when you're having a day like that, reach for the prescription pad and start spelling out V-A-L-I-U-M...:D:p:D (You know I'm poking fun...). Now go take that $35 cue and break some balls literally rather than figuratively! ;)
 
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