Why do people refer to it as THE Diamond System?

A

AimingVoodoo

Banned
I'll be honest, I have a journal with at least 50 different "diamond systems."

Some for kicking, some for banking, some for the cueball coming off the object ball.

So when you say "the" diamond system, just what are you trying to say?

I am asking in all seriousness, because maybe I am missing something.
 
AimingVoodoo said:
I'll be honest, I have a journal with at least 50 different "diamond systems."

Some for kicking, some for banking, some for the cueball coming off the object ball.

So when you say "the" diamond system, just what are you trying to say?

I am asking in all seriousness, because maybe I am missing something.
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You're asking a rhetorical question. Of course there are a ton of diamond systems. When someone says, "Using the diamond system" they mean using "A" diamond system.

If you want to be technical, there are prob an infinite number of variations. Some are easier to quantify/identify than others.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
You're asking a rhetorical question. Of course there are a ton of diamond systems. When someone says, "Using the diamond system" they mean using "A" diamond system.

If you want to be technical, there are prob an infinite number of variations. Some are easier to quantify/identify than others.
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oh ok. I'll read a post where someone says they want to learn the diamond system. From my experience it is going to take you several years at the very least to learn the majority of the systems well enough to commit them to memory and be able to use them in a game.

And I still come across a new system every now and then.

So I don't think it's a matter of "learning the diamond system." It's an ongoing process of learning that won't end as long as you play.
 
AimingVoodoo said:
oh ok. I'll read a post where someone says they want to learn the diamond system. From my experience it is going to take you several years at the very least to learn the majority of the systems well enough to commit them to memory and be able to use them in a game.

And I still come across a new system every now and then.

So I don't think it's a matter of "learning the diamond system." It's an ongoing process of learning that won't end as long as you play.
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There's prob only 7 you need to commit to memory.
 
AimingVoodoo said:
I'll be honest, I have a journal with at least 50 different "diamond systems."

Some for kicking, some for banking, some for the cueball coming off the object ball.

So when you say "the" diamond system, just what are you trying to say?

I am asking in all seriousness, because maybe I am missing something.
Click to expand...


If you want to add to your collection, the late Walt Harris put out a four volume set called The Billiard Atlas. Each volume contains huge steaming piles of diamond systems, many with applicability to pool. Hours of fun.

Lou Figueroa
 
To try to answer your question: In 3-cushion, the corner 5 diamond system is usually what people are referring to (default) when they say "the diamond system". For pool players, it's either the corner 5 or many pool player tend to believe the divide by 2 (one rail kick/bank) is the default "diamond system" on a pool table.

As mentioned by you and others in this thread there are many diamond systems but I would consider these the default.

dave
 
12squared said:
To try to answer your question: In 3-cushion, the corner 5 diamond system is usually what people are referring to (default) when they say "the diamond system". For pool players, it's either the corner 5 or many pool player tend to believe the divide by 2 (one rail kick/bank) is the default "diamond system" on a pool table.

As mentioned by you and others in this thread there are many diamond systems but I would consider these the default.
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Excellent post.

"The Diamond System" = Corner-5 System (to most people, by default)

Most of the other commonly used "diamond systems" can be found here:

Regards,
Dave
 
I believe that the diamond systems are so named because the points along the rails are known as diamonds and the systems use these points to HELP compute a path around the table.

{And there are lots of systmes}
 
MitchAlsup said:
I believe that the diamond systems are so named because the points along the rails are known as diamonds and the systems use these points to HELP compute a path around the table.

{And there are lots of systmes}
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I agree with this guy.
 
I hate to admit it, but I actually don't "know" any Diamond system well enough to use it in a game. I guess I discovered long ago that the use of English greatly affects the path of the cue ball, thus making a diamond system only a guide at best. That said, I think most experienced pool players can "see" where to aim to hit a ball. It's rare that I can't find a way to hit a hidden object ball (just ask Ming who I used to practice with for hours on end. I would tell her to try and hook me. :smile:), usually finding the correct path to take.

Pool remains a game where the autonomic senses are brought into play, where we trust instinct more than logic or calculations. When our brain is in free flow mode is when we play our best pool. And I need to play some soon, as my next trip to the Philippines is only two weeks away. I'm soooo out of stroke! :rolleyes:
 
AimingVoodoo said:
... So when you say "the" diamond system, just what are you trying to say?

I am asking in all seriousness, because maybe I am missing something.
Click to expand...
I agree with Dave and Dave. When someone says "I used the diamond system on that shot," I think it usually means the corner-5 and that they are not aware of other diamond systems. There is a precedent for calling the corner-5 THE diamond system, and that is Hoppe's book, "Billiards As It Should Be Played," in which his section on "The Diamond System" is about the corner-5 with a brief discussion at the end of the plus-2.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I agree with Dave and Dave. When someone says "I used the diamond system on that shot," I think it usually means the corner-5 and that they are not aware of other diamond systems. There is a precedent for calling the corner-5 THE diamond system, and that is Hoppe's book, "Billiards As It Should Be Played," in which his section on "The Diamond System" is about the corner-5 with a brief discussion at the end of the plus-2.
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Bob, I'd like to thank you for sharing the 45 degree rule in one of your articles.

Most people just learn the numbers and think they are done. You could write a book on just the corner 5 system.
 
I always thought it was because of the Diamond shaped inserts in the rails that you used as reference points?
 
jay helfert said:
I hate to admit it, but I actually don't "know" any Diamond system well enough to use it in a game. I guess I discovered long ago that the use of English greatly affects the path of the cue ball, thus making a diamond system only a guide at best. That said, I think most experienced pool players can "see" where to aim to hit a ball. It's rare that I can't find a way to hit a hidden object ball (just ask Ming who I used to practice with for hours on end. I would tell her to try and hook me. :smile:), usually finding the correct path to take.

Pool remains a game where the autonomic senses are brought into play, where we trust instinct more than logic or calculations. When our brain is in free flow mode is when we play our best pool. And I need to play some soon, as my next trip to the Philippines is only two weeks away. I'm soooo out of stroke! :rolleyes:
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Very well said JH.I fully agree.Lots of practice Is by far the best system.
I always wondered why they put those Diamonds on my Diamond.LOL
IMO people make this game harder than It Is.It's knocking balls In the holes with a stick.That's all It Is.Perfect practice, makes perfect.John B.trying and hoping not to offend anyone.
 
jay helfert said:
I hate to admit it, but I actually don't "know" any Diamond system well enough to use it in a game. I guess I discovered long ago that the use of English greatly affects the path of the cue ball, thus making a diamond system only a guide at best. That said, I think most experienced pool players can "see" where to aim to hit a ball. It's rare that I can't find a way to hit a hidden object ball (just ask Ming who I used to practice with for hours on end. I would tell her to try and hook me. :smile:), usually finding the correct path to take.

Pool remains a game where the autonomic senses are brought into play, where we trust instinct more than logic or calculations. When our brain is in free flow mode is when we play our best pool. And I need to play some soon, as my next trip to the Philippines is only two weeks away. I'm soooo out of stroke! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Good post. I'm pretty much the same way, but I do have a couple of 5-Corner System shots committed to memory in my "tool box" that have gotten me out of jams on some pretty specific shots, such as going three rails to sink a hung up ball in a corner pocket. It's well worth the time to look at it and practice a specific shot that's easy to line up against a predictable leave. I work backwards from the object ball in the jaws of a corner pocket and figure out which spot on the rail I've got to hit with running English to get it around the World (if it's open) to guarantee a hit on the object ball. It's all valuable, and I agree you can spend (lose?) years working on the system as a whole...I prefer to feel most kicks and banks, but it's nice to have one or two "certain" shots you can pull off without a lot of calculations...
 
book collector said:
I always thought it was because of the Diamond shaped inserts in the rails that you used as reference points?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's true, but the OP's question was about what people mean by "THE diamond system," which implies that there is only a single system. The comedian A. Whitney Brown remarked that some day he hoped to move up to be The Whitney Brown.

Whether diamond systems are actually useful or not, I think that depends on the player. I think their main value is in giving the learning player a framework for practice so that all the various aspects of how the rails work can be studied systematically. I think they can also make it easier to adjust to new equipment.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Whether diamond systems are actually useful or not, I think that depends on the player. I think their main value is in giving the learning player a framework for practice so that all the various aspects of how the rails work can be studied systematically. I think they can also make it easier to adjust to new equipment.
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Excellent post!

I agree 100%!

Regards,
Dave
 
Bob Jewett said:
I agree with Dave and Dave. When someone says "I used the diamond system on that shot," I think it usually means the corner-5 and that they are not aware of other diamond systems. There is a precedent for calling the corner-5 THE diamond system, and that is Hoppe's book, "Billiards As It Should Be Played," in which his section on "The Diamond System" is about the corner-5 with a brief discussion at the end of the plus-2.
Click to expand...

ironically, Shamos has claimed that the system mentioned in "billiards as it should be played" was neither known or used by Hoppe.
 
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