Why do very few pros ever offer advice on AZB?

[sjm]

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.


I was wondering why you thought this was so.

JoeyA

Pros that compete for a living have a different orientation here. They need to make financial ends meet from the sport, and, as giving lessons is one way they supplement their income, rendering free advice and instruction isn't in their best interest.

 

[JoeyA]

Pros that compete for a living have a different orientation here. They need to make financial ends meet from the sport, and, as giving lessons is one way they supplement their income, rendering free advice and instruction isn't in their best interest.

You and others have brought out the point that pros need to make financial ends meet.

I believe that interaction on a pool forum is one way to enhance their financial means.

Many and I do mean MANY people are so far removed from the professional pool player realm that when they see the professional pool player, they are reluctant to approach them, let alone strike up a conversation about how much would they would charge for a couple of hour pool lesson.

What I see is that professional pool players while I know that most are very approachable and would love to hear those words, "how much do you charge for a pool lesson?", they most often don't because some people are a little shy about asking.

We have a new pool hall opening up here in our area and the owner wanted to get in touch with Shane Van Boening to discuss him doing an exhibition. They didn't know how to get in touch with him.......

I think that some professional pool players in spite of their lack of typing skills have managed to make a connection with the POOL Internet Forum members here on AZBilliards and othe forums and have received some positive results. John Schmidt is one of the pros who seem to have stirred up some interest for himself through this medium and I guess I was just hoping that others might realize the benefits of interacting with the Internet Forums like AZ Billiards. John doesn't live and breathe on AZBilliards but he does interact from time to time and I'm sure he reads most posts that are of interest to him. He also puts out "feelers" searching for investors and sponsors alike. While it hasn't made him a rich man, it seems to have been worth the effort.

By interacting with these forums, the pros are more likely to remembered when opportunity knocks. They have to put up with a few jerks and trolls but that is just the way this medium is and that's difficult to change although AZ Billiards has made milestones in that area.

In fact, it is the members of AZ Billiards Main Forum which has had the greatest impact on keeping the s**t stirrers in line when it comes to harassing the pros when they do visit.

Here's hoping that they see this medium as an evolving medium and one that they can link into and use it for their financial gain.
JoeyA

 

[sjm]

You and others have brought out the point that pros need to make financial ends meet.

I believe that interaction on a pool forum is one way to enhance their financial means.

Many and I do mean MANY people are so far removed from the professional pool player realm that when they see the professional pool player, they are reluctant to approach them, let alone strike up a conversation about how much would they would charge for a couple of hour pool lesson.

What I see is that professional pool players while I know that most are very approachable and would love to hear those words, "how much do you charge for a pool lesson?", they most often don't because some people are a little shy about asking.

We have a new pool hall opening up here in our area and the owner wanted to get in touch with Shane Van Boening to discuss him doing an exhibition. They didn't know how to get in touch with him.......

I think that some professional pool players in spite of their lack of typing skills have managed to make a connection with the POOL Internet Forum members here on AZBilliards and othe forums and have received some positive results. John Schmidt is one of the pros who seem to have stirred up some interest for himself through this medium and I guess I was just hoping that others might realize the benefits of interacting with the Internet Forums like AZ Billiards. John doesn't live and breathe on AZBilliards but he does interact from time to time and I'm sure he reads most posts that are of interest to him. He also puts out "feelers" searching for investors and sponsors alike. While it hasn't made him a rich man, it seems to have been worth the effort.

By interacting with these forums, the pros are more likely to remembered when opportunity knocks. They have to put up with a few jerks and trolls but that is just the way this medium is and that's difficult to change although AZ Billiards has made milestones in that area.

In fact, it is the members of AZ Billiards Main Forum which has had the greatest impact on keeping the s**t stirrers in line when it comes to harassing the pros when they do visit.

Here's hoping that they see this medium as an evolving medium and one that they can link into and use it for their financial gain.
JoeyA

I was addressing the question posed by the thread, which is "Why don't more pros offer advice on the forum?" Your analysis here concerns itself with whether pros should participate on the forum and interact with other AZB posters, and I agree that participation can be astute for the very reasons you suggest. To me, however, participation and giving advice are two different matters.

 

[JAW725]

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.


I was wondering why you thought this was so.

Do you think their chiming in from time to time would help expand their fan base or simply open them up to mean-spirited criticism?
IF YOU ARE STILL IN THE DARK I WILL SHOW YOU THE AIMING SYSTEM
AND YOU CAN BE THE JUDGE. I AM IN PA.

THE ONLY THING THE PRO HAS GOING IS HIS AIMING SYSTEM. IF YOU TAKE THAT AWAY FROM HIM HE HAS NOTHING ELSE TO SAY, THAT IS WHY THEY AVOID IT. THERE IS ONLY ONE PRO AIMING SYSTEM OUT THERE, AND EVERY PRO USES IT, EVERY ONE OF THEM. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CLOSED MOUTH ABOUT IT. IT HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1934. YOUR PRO HAS TO CLAM UP BECAUSE EVERY PRO HAS TO DO THE SAME. NOBODY LETS THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG, HAL HOULE

That's about it Well maybe a kicking system here and there. I also smile when I read about a pro talking about the ghost ball or just seeing the contact point. I remember an article, " How the pro's aim " by Mr. Jewitt, I think. The article ( pros ) mentioned nothing but the same aiming techniques that the average to lower players speak of.......I refuse to believe that

 

[JCIN]

The article ( pros ) mentioned nothing but the same aiming techniques that the average to lower players speak of.......I refuse to believe that

Why? You really think there is some magic system?

You can have the perfect voodoo/jedi aiming system but it still comes down to executing the basics under pressure. That is what makes the pros pros, not some super secret aiming system invented by mute Tibetan monks.

 

[inside_english]

Heh, that's *not* how to run an online chat with a guest who is supposed to respond to questions. You don't just leave the channel open and let the masses pound on their keyboards.

I ran a bunch of online chats in that vein back in '96, during the Republican and Democratic conventions that year - I was working for CNN. Did chats with Bill Frist, Rennie Davis (Chicago 7), Candace Gingrich, some chick who was on "Real World" and had gotten into politics, and Bill Press/Bob Novak from Crossfire, and the reporter who had broken the story that week about that one Clinton adviser who was banging some hooker and letting her listen in on phone convos. (Also did a big one with Magic Johnson, later in the year - boy that was a circus.)

I had the guest(s) on their own laptop, and me as moderator on my own - and I had a bunch of canned "how this chat works" text bits prepared, that I could go copy and paste into the chat every few min (to catch folks joining later). I had the channel locked down, and told folks to send ME their questions privately. I would then look over recent questions, pick a good one, and throw it out into the open, where the guest would see it, and give them time to respond. Then I'd toss another question out right after, keeping a good tempo up.

I agree. I think everyone (moderators included) were SO excited with being able to actually speak with Kasparov everyone kinda lost it!

I am not suggesting we have a rabid, online chatfest here with any pros though. I was just citing an example of how us "regular" folk may tend to overwhelm the pros with post after post.

 

[inside_english]

WRONG JOEY, AND I CAN PROVE IT.

HAL HOULE 484 623 4144

Huh? Did you reply to the right post?

 

[Fuji-whopper]

Many and I do mean MANY people are so far removed from the professional pool player realm that when they see the professional pool player, they are reluctant to approach them, let alone strike up a conversation about how much would they would charge for a couple of hour pool lesson.

JoeyA

The one gripe I have with talking to people about pool and helping them with their game is their total lack of consideration for you as a person and your time. Every day it seems I get hit up to "practice so you can teach me something", "let's play so you can show me how to play" or "I like practicing with better players because it helps my game".

These people don't even offer you a soda but you are supposed spend time with them to "help them", if it happened once in a while it would be fine but it happens A LOT and it keeps me from going to the pool room on league nights.

Giving a pointer or two here and there is something I do quite often, but when you want me to commit to helping you with your game can you at least be a little considerate? I try to be easy going and open to talk to anyone but my shields are up when your intention is to help yourself to my time without any consideration.

 

[JoeW]

In the profession of psychology I was a well respected professional. I am now retired. I held workshops for new professionals to help them learn how to build and sustain a practice.

I hear people talk about the lack of financial rewards for pro players and I think to myself what a waste.

New professionals learn to make contacts, to interact with the public. To provide services at reduced rates and for free to become established. I don't know how many times I have been asked by people on the street, at a party or at a friend's house for information. It usually begins with, "I have a friend who has this problem ... How should she deal with it?"

The rules are simple, general advice that would apply to any person are freely given. Following that references to clinics, professionals, books, and now the internet are freely given. Specific questions about you (or your friend) are not addressed without a full consultation. For the pro pool player this means he would have to check your game. My rates are ... and I can be contacted ...

When people find my rates are too high, I refer them to another who is less expensive, usually the mental health center or a new professional. Later, their family member, who can afford it, contacts me because the word has it than I am easily accessible with much valuable information.

In this way one can build a practice that easily yields a six figure income. The internet is but one of the newer ways to build credibility.

Pros that are not here are shooting themselves in the foot. It is a matter of developing a thick skin and learning to deal with this new world.

It is a matter of acting like a professional. There are no stupid questions and I can usually help you find the answer to your questions. An Attorney friend had a sign behind his desk that read, "You pay for my knowledge, not my work effort."

When I was active this little post would have cost you about $500.00 in one of my workshops. There is more much more. Any professional who wants to make his or her profession pay only needs discuss the issues with a seasoned professional who provides individual services to the public.

 

[JoeyA]

MONEY, money, money, EVERYWHERE and not a cent to spare.

In the profession of psychology I was a well respected professional. I am now retired. I held workshops for new professionals to help them learn how to build and sustain a practice.

I hear people talk about the lack of financial rewards for pro players and I think to myself what a waste.

New professionals learn to make contacts, to interact with the public. To provide services at reduced rates and for free to become established. I don't know how many times I have been asked by people on the street, at a party or at a friend's house for information. It usually begins with, "I have a friend who has this problem ... How should she deal with it?"

The rules are simple, general advice that would apply to any person are freely given. Following that references to clinics, professionals, books, and now the internet are freely given. Specific questions about you (or your friend) are not addressed without a full consultation. For the pro pool player this means he would have to check your game. My rates are ... and I can be contacted ...

When people find my rates are too high, I refer them to another who is less expensive, usually the mental health center or a new professional. Later, their family member, who can afford it, contacts me because the word has it than I am easily accessible with much valuable information.

In this way one can build a practice that easily yields a six figure income. The internet is but one of the newer ways to build credibility.

Pros that are not here are shooting themselves in the foot. It is a matter of developing a thick skin and learning to deal with this new world.

It is a matter of acting like a professional. There are no stupid questions and I can usually help you find the answer to your questions. An Attorney friend had a sign behind his desk that read, "You pay for my knowledge, not my work effort."

When I was active this little post would have cost you about $500.00 in one of my workshops. There is more much more. Any professional who wants to make his or her profession pay only needs discuss the issues with a seasoned professional who provides individual services to the public.

You have articulated a lot of what I would like to have said. This is the message I actually hoped to eventually convey to the pros.

Pros: Listen UP! Joe's got something here.
JoeyA

 

[halhoule]

He Has Nothing. He Has No Aiming System, He Has No Anything;
What A Farce. He Is Not A Professional Player. He Is An Academic.
Not A Player.

 

[JoeW]

You ae right Hal. I am not a professional pool player. I am an academic who had an incorporated private practice that earned a six figure income for over 30 years providing a variety of services for individuals, corporations, govenrment agencies. I wrote computer software and authored books. All of these were financially successful.

 

[BRKNRUN]

In the profession of psychology I was a well respected professional. I am now retired. I held workshops for new professionals to help them learn how to build and sustain a practice.

I hear people talk about the lack of financial rewards for pro players and I think to myself what a waste.

New professionals learn to make contacts, to interact with the public. To provide services at reduced rates and for free to become established. I don't know how many times I have been asked by people on the street, at a party or at a friend's house for information. It usually begins with, "I have a friend who has this problem ... How should she deal with it?"

The rules are simple, general advice that would apply to any person are freely given. Following that references to clinics, professionals, books, and now the internet are freely given. Specific questions about you (or your friend) are not addressed without a full consultation. For the pro pool player this means he would have to check your game. My rates are ... and I can be contacted ...

When people find my rates are too high, I refer them to another who is less expensive, usually the mental health center or a new professional. Later, their family member, who can afford it, contacts me because the word has it than I am easily accessible with much valuable information.

In this way one can build a practice that easily yields a six figure income. The internet is but one of the newer ways to build credibility.

Pros that are not here are shooting themselves in the foot. It is a matter of developing a thick skin and learning to deal with this new world.

It is a matter of acting like a professional. There are no stupid questions and I can usually help you find the answer to your questions. An Attorney friend had a sign behind his desk that read, "You pay for my knowledge, not my work effort."

When I was active this little post would have cost you about $500.00 in one of my workshops. There is more much more. Any professional who wants to make his or her profession pay only needs discuss the issues with a seasoned professional who provides individual services to the public.

I am not 100% sure about that.

The problem is that many Pros (in all sports) don't know how to act like a "professional".

Fact is that most just are real good at whatever game they are playing.

The difference is that most other sports "pros" have agents that help them to say the right things.

Look no further than the recent Brett Farve debacle...Had he not had people help him eventually say and do the right things...just think how that could have turned out....(I am sure there are many example of "pros" that had to read "prepared" speeches to fix a "mess")

Most of the pool playing "pros" don't have that help... and could easily shoot themselves in the foot by actually coming on here and saying the wrong things.

What is the saying...(Keep you mouth shut and let them "think" your stupid rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt)

Just like in Golf...There is a difference between a Professional Golfer and a Golf Professional.....I suspect the same difference between a Professional Pool Player and a Pool Professional.

Example- Ronnie Weisman is Professional Pool Player.....Mark Wilson is a Pool Professional.

 

[Fatboy]

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.


I was wondering why you thought this was so.

Do you think their chiming in from time to time would help expand their fan base or simply open them up to mean-spirited criticism?



Thoughts?

JoeyA

I have seen it from their side, no i'm not saying i'm a pro or even close but I have been around them enough to know their position,

Its their business and they cant or dont want to work for free,

Its our hobby and people love to talk about their hobby,

Archer and I talk endlessly about golf, were best of friends and he has never given me a lession in pool, he hardly ever play, were not friends because of pool-its why we met, thats it. Other pros have told me the same and when I go to eat with them, I sit and listen, because they are talking business and its not my business to interupt.

so again its biz to them and do we sit around here and talk about our business, no. Ask a pro about his hobby not pool and they will go on for days, Shannon Daulton like to hunt, so do I gues what we talk about, I dont know anything about his tour, we never play, but we can talk about guns all day.

 

[uwate]

He Has Nothing. He Has No Aiming System, He Has No Anything;
What A Farce. He Is Not A Professional Player. He Is An Academic.
Not A Player.

What a farce indeed. Are you a professional player? Do you even play well? You evidently have some sort of aiming system, but really who cares? Like Donny Mills says, if you miss to one side, next time you aim a tiny bit less to the other side. I dont get how you seem to think your some sort of pool champion and talk down to people on this forum. I am no pro pool player but I'd sure like to try you some. You and your aiming system can play me at the 09 DCC a ten ahead if your aiming system can stand to post it on the light.

 

[bfdlad]

What a farce indeed. Are you a professional player? Do you even play well? You evidently have some sort of aiming system, but really who cares? Like Donny Mills says, if you miss to one side, next time you aim a tiny bit less to the other side. I dont get how you seem to think your some sort of pool champion and talk down to people on this forum. I am no pro pool player but I'd sure like to try you some. You and your aiming system can play me at the 09 DCC a ten ahead if your aiming system can stand to post it on the light.

I think I need to know more about this aiming system. What is it? I mean don't go into detail as you obviously want to sell it and get paid for it an not give it away right? Please give me a little more info as i would be happy to look into it. Are you the guy who is working with Stevie Moore? I have heard good things about that one. Please let me know, thanks,

 

[JAW725]

I think I need to know more about this aiming system. What is it? I mean don't go into detail as you obviously want to sell it and get paid for it an not give it away right? Please give me a little more info as i would be happy to look into it. Are you the guy who is working with Stevie Moore? I have heard good things about that one. Please let me know, thanks,

From what I understand, Hal taught the system to Stan Shuffet. Stan has worked on the system and then taught Stevie Moore. Hal has helped people for free along with Ron V. It's strong, contact one of them. I'm trying to save and find the travel time to visit Stan and Ron V.

 

[BRKNRUN]

What a farce indeed. Are you a professional player? Do you even play well? You evidently have some sort of aiming system, but really who cares? Like Donny Mills says, if you miss to one side, next time you aim a tiny bit less to the other side. I dont get how you seem to think your some sort of pool champion and talk down to people on this forum. I am no pro pool player but I'd sure like to try you some. You and your aiming system can play me at the 09 DCC a ten ahead if your aiming system can stand to post it on the light.

Do you realize you just called out a physically handicapped man that is more than 80 years old?

 

[uwate]

Do you realize you just called out a physically handicapped man that is more than 80 years old?

actually no i didnt. i dont know this guy I just find the way he posts to be insulting. With this info, then I am an idiot and I apologize. I still think he posts in a very offensive manner and he doesnt get any kind of free pass on that bc hes 80 and handicapped. But definitely yeah woofing at him is pretty stupid. sorry

 

[JCIN]

Do you realize you just called out a physically handicapped man that is more than 80 years old?

He is in good enough shape to act like an asshole on the internet.