JoeyA said:
Maybe there time is money, and they use their knowledge to make money playing pool, and giving lessons.
Why do very few pros ever offer advice on AZB?
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
Maybe there time is money, and they use their knowledge to make money playing pool, and giving lessons.
Most pros do not know how to post on a message board;
Out of a group of 20 people, lets say, there are always going to be at least one anonymous internet thug who seems to have the sole purpose in life to "bash the pro". Most pros crumble, not knowing how to defuse these types who relish the idea of pissing off a top player for the sole purpose of their own entertainment. Everyone sees it but them.
I've seen this quite a few times here and on other message boards, complete with pros offering verbal bashing, protests, and MB walkouts. Usually with 19 other people saying "No, you don't understand, please don't go!"
Out of a group of 20 people, lets say, there are always going to be at least one anonymous internet thug who seems to have the sole purpose in life to "bash the pro". Most pros crumble, not knowing how to defuse these types who relish the idea of pissing off a top player for the sole purpose of their own entertainment. Everyone sees it but them.
I've seen this quite a few times here and on other message boards, complete with pros offering verbal bashing, protests, and MB walkouts. Usually with 19 other people saying "No, you don't understand, please don't go!"
As I said in 1on1pooltourny's thread:
I'm with Jay....AZB is a great place to get information; and is a valuable networking resource for people who want to learn more about all aspects of the game.
It is however, ONLY for the thick-skinned. Most of us feel that AZB will never have widespread contributions from pro's - very few can put up with the background "troll noise." It really is more for the amateur player; and for those pro's that are computer-savvy and have a very thick skin when it comes to dealing with the poorly informed internet trolls. Disappointing for us who wish otherwise; but a fact nevertheless.
No person wants to see something critical written about them; it is human nature to want to defend yourself. On the internet, though, with the lag between posting and reading; such exchanges can take the good part of a day or even a week - leaving a bad taste for a fair period of time.
This is a forum for discussion (informed, uninformed; open to all comers) - it is really not suited to the pro's (though I wish it was), unless they want to "mix it up" like the rest of us.
I'm with Jay....AZB is a great place to get information; and is a valuable networking resource for people who want to learn more about all aspects of the game.
It is however, ONLY for the thick-skinned. Most of us feel that AZB will never have widespread contributions from pro's - very few can put up with the background "troll noise." It really is more for the amateur player; and for those pro's that are computer-savvy and have a very thick skin when it comes to dealing with the poorly informed internet trolls. Disappointing for us who wish otherwise; but a fact nevertheless.
No person wants to see something critical written about them; it is human nature to want to defend yourself. On the internet, though, with the lag between posting and reading; such exchanges can take the good part of a day or even a week - leaving a bad taste for a fair period of time.
This is a forum for discussion (informed, uninformed; open to all comers) - it is really not suited to the pro's (though I wish it was), unless they want to "mix it up" like the rest of us.
#1 - You will not get rich writing instructional books about pool. To quote the great philosopher of Metallica, James Hetfield, It's sad but true.
#2 - The atmosphere in the forums is much different today than it was 4-5 years ago when we had Earl & Johnny posting here (infrequently). The problem is NOT that the pro's ego gets in the way of passing along knowledge...it is because some people don't have any respect for anybody ... they act like A- holes because they believe they are entertaining (probably only to themselves)- the pros get disgusted and stop posting - and in the end everybody loses out while A-holes celebrate.
#3 - In the straight pool forum we have had Grady Mathews, Darren Appleton, Markus Juva, Nick Van Den Berg, Ray Martin, John Schmidt, Danny Harriman (and on occasion we have Travis Trotter show up to share his whimsical wisdom to us mere mortals) - some of them share their knowledge on a daily basis - because the atmosphere in that forum is directed towards learning about the game of 14.1 continuous. You can go there right now and find a lot of great information that would help you improve your game.
#4 - Thorsten Hohmann was posting in this forum until some people started writing ugly comments about Charlie Williams. I understand that a lot of people don't care for Charlie personally - but the comments in that thread pissed Toastie off. He hasn't been back - I've tried to get him to participate in the Straight Pool forum - but he hasn't come back - thanks to the idiot crowd. At the time that occurred, Toastie was the Straight Pool World Champion. FWIW, he posts a lot of great stuff in his blog - I read it every chance I get - but I wish he would comeback here and participate.
# 5- Think what you want about Charlie... he is one hell of a great player with awesome knowledge to share that could help a lot of people. All he posts is updates to the events that he is promoting and very rarely will he respond to questions, but he is here everyday.
I am grateful for guys like Grady, John Schmidt, Danny Harriman, SJM, Bob Jewett, Steve Lipsky, and most definitely -Hall of Fame World Champion Ray Martin for all of the knowledge that they have shared with us in writing and in videos.
I completely agree with Donnie about watching the great players. I used to go to tournaments just to watch Buddy Hall's cue ball control and Steve Mizerak's beautiful stroke.
Even though there are not many pros sharing their knowledge - I take advantage of learning from Stan Shuffett, Randy Goettlicher, Scott Lee, Bob Jewett - and though they may not be pros, they have information, knowledge, and experience that is worth a hell of a lot more than what they charge for lessons - trust me on that!
#2 - The atmosphere in the forums is much different today than it was 4-5 years ago when we had Earl & Johnny posting here (infrequently). The problem is NOT that the pro's ego gets in the way of passing along knowledge...it is because some people don't have any respect for anybody ... they act like A- holes because they believe they are entertaining (probably only to themselves)- the pros get disgusted and stop posting - and in the end everybody loses out while A-holes celebrate.
#3 - In the straight pool forum we have had Grady Mathews, Darren Appleton, Markus Juva, Nick Van Den Berg, Ray Martin, John Schmidt, Danny Harriman (and on occasion we have Travis Trotter show up to share his whimsical wisdom to us mere mortals) - some of them share their knowledge on a daily basis - because the atmosphere in that forum is directed towards learning about the game of 14.1 continuous. You can go there right now and find a lot of great information that would help you improve your game.
#4 - Thorsten Hohmann was posting in this forum until some people started writing ugly comments about Charlie Williams. I understand that a lot of people don't care for Charlie personally - but the comments in that thread pissed Toastie off. He hasn't been back - I've tried to get him to participate in the Straight Pool forum - but he hasn't come back - thanks to the idiot crowd. At the time that occurred, Toastie was the Straight Pool World Champion. FWIW, he posts a lot of great stuff in his blog - I read it every chance I get - but I wish he would comeback here and participate.
# 5- Think what you want about Charlie... he is one hell of a great player with awesome knowledge to share that could help a lot of people. All he posts is updates to the events that he is promoting and very rarely will he respond to questions, but he is here everyday.
I am grateful for guys like Grady, John Schmidt, Danny Harriman, SJM, Bob Jewett, Steve Lipsky, and most definitely -Hall of Fame World Champion Ray Martin for all of the knowledge that they have shared with us in writing and in videos.
I completely agree with Donnie about watching the great players. I used to go to tournaments just to watch Buddy Hall's cue ball control and Steve Mizerak's beautiful stroke.
Even though there are not many pros sharing their knowledge - I take advantage of learning from Stan Shuffett, Randy Goettlicher, Scott Lee, Bob Jewett - and though they may not be pros, they have information, knowledge, and experience that is worth a hell of a lot more than what they charge for lessons - trust me on that!
For the record, Nick already wrote a book. It didn't sell well at all... Also, Nick gives free information every month, in his column. They are paid only $100 for each column, so he's certainly not "getting rich" off of that!
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
1on1pooltournys said:
JoeyA said:
It's easier to beat someone to death on the pool table than it is to tell them how it is done and convince them that they can do it the way you are doing it.
Scott Lee said:
That's really terrible. I had no idea they were paid so little.
I've learned enough from Nick's instructional articles that I feel like I owe him money...almost.
Most pros I know all know about this place or have some experience with it. Quite simply they won't mess with it. I know a few that read the forums pretty regularly but will not post. I have asked them about this and they all have said basically the same thing...."There are too many idiots".
Forums can have a nasty mob mentality at times. I can think of one occasion in particular about 6 months ago where there were 8 or 9 threads started about Shane with the theme being "What hand does Shane wipe his ass with?" and other attempts at making fun of all the press he was getting. He never posted too much before that but I cant really remember any after it. I asked him about it and he shook his head and just said "What are they talking about?" I am sure everyone here has forgotten about that but I would bet money that Shane hasn't. I know there was no real animosity behind most of those threads but to him it just looked like people were making fun of him.
It is easy to understand how someone who devotes his or her life to something could get turned off pretty quick having their every word and deed disected by people who cant make 3 balls but are much more computer literate and forum savvy.
The flip side is that some of the pro's need to understand that the benefits of being active here outweigh the noise they sometimes have to deal with and that it is not such a bad thing to have to justify and back up your positions.
WIth the current climate here I doubt we will see too much participation by pro's aside from those looking to stir up action.
Forums can have a nasty mob mentality at times. I can think of one occasion in particular about 6 months ago where there were 8 or 9 threads started about Shane with the theme being "What hand does Shane wipe his ass with?" and other attempts at making fun of all the press he was getting. He never posted too much before that but I cant really remember any after it. I asked him about it and he shook his head and just said "What are they talking about?" I am sure everyone here has forgotten about that but I would bet money that Shane hasn't. I know there was no real animosity behind most of those threads but to him it just looked like people were making fun of him.
It is easy to understand how someone who devotes his or her life to something could get turned off pretty quick having their every word and deed disected by people who cant make 3 balls but are much more computer literate and forum savvy.
The flip side is that some of the pro's need to understand that the benefits of being active here outweigh the noise they sometimes have to deal with and that it is not such a bad thing to have to justify and back up your positions.
WIth the current climate here I doubt we will see too much participation by pro's aside from those looking to stir up action.
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Good thread. I'd fully support a swift kick in the pants by the mods to anyone who gets out of line with a pro. Even just a week-long ban or a warning would help to let both the offender and the pro know that the community doesn't tolerate that sort of BS on here.
Yes I remember that thread or threads(there was afew).And I felt sorry for Shane.It was uncalled for,and I sometimes wonder if this site has a moderator because those thread should have been axed instantly.JCIN said:
When I first came on this site I was amazed at the Pro's who posted here,it was great.But now I can see why they don't.
I don't think they're that worried about the fan base. I just think most of them are really computer guys. They hang out in pool halls all day doing what they do best and having fun. I bet they give out lots of advice to people who ask them directly when they see them out playing.
Reporting an improper post/thread.
Any registered member of this forum can report an improper post or thread simply by clicking on the "bad" icon at the bottom of each post. You can then type a message to the moderator sharing your perspective and possibly doing some good. Just be warned: Dont waste the moderators time with nonsensical "bad" reports either. They do listen and read the reports but as many have learned they don't put up with any BS nor should they.
JoeyA
jimmy-leggs said:
Any registered member of this forum can report an improper post or thread simply by clicking on the "bad" icon at the bottom of each post. You can then type a message to the moderator sharing your perspective and possibly doing some good. Just be warned: Dont waste the moderators time with nonsensical "bad" reports either. They do listen and read the reports but as many have learned they don't put up with any BS nor should they.
JoeyA
IMO, the primary reason is a lack of civility of certain posters, including (but not limited to) other pros... take Grady's rant for example... lambasting Shannon... totally uncalled for. jmo :frown:
As my Mom used to tell me... "If you don't have anything good to say, keep your mouth shut."
As my Mom used to tell me... "If you don't have anything good to say, keep your mouth shut."
too many idiots out there, and theres nothing in it for them. If earl and johnny shared all their knowledge online how could they expect you to pay to go to the schools theyre out doin now. Theres not much money in pool so giving away free knowledge just aint practical.
and theres too many idiots out there.
and theres too many idiots out there.
