Why do very few pros ever offer advice on AZB?

[bfdlad]

Let me ask and maybve I should just do a poll, if top pros come on here what is it that you are looking for? As someone already said it is really too hard to give pool lessons and tips to any kind of affectiveness on here. I know that they want to come on here to chat with fans etc and would enjoy it probably. But I guess getting jammed on their last tourney or a match that happened 4 years ago isn't going to work for them, however if it is done right they could give their explanation on what they went though etc. NOW thats fin e but there will be someone who says thats a bad excuse or something ya know this person buy the way who would totally flame a pro on here would be the first in line for his autograph and would never say it to their face. Anyway, I know pros cme on here and advertise or solicit sponsors etc but what if they onlu did that 25% of the time what else would they e doing here?? Asking us what the best tip is to use? How do I get more action on the ball? Other than just saying hi I am not sure what they could do on here other than help promote their book, DVD, School etc. maybe I am being negative.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Jokes on you

Nick Varner told me when he couldn't hold a cue again, he would write a book and be rich. Do you really think they are going to give people FREE advice?

I think Nick is already rich....

LOL

Ken

 

[ScottW]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

I think this link (NSFW) sums up how internet forums function. :/

 

[DGunter]

Forums can have a nasty mob mentality at times. I can think of one occasion in particular about 6 months ago where there were 8 or 9 threads started about Shane with the theme being "What hand does Shane wipe his ass with?" and other attempts at making fun of all the press he was getting. He never posted too much before that but I cant really remember any after it. I asked him about it and he shook his head and just said "What are they talking about?" I am sure everyone here has forgotten about that but I would bet money that Shane hasn't. I know there was no real animosity behind most of those threads but to him it just looked like people were making fun of him.

<snip>..........</snip>

WIth the current climate here I doubt we will see too much participation by pro's aside from those looking to stir up action.

I would love to see a heavily moderated forum for people like Shane to post in. I think its obvious that everybody knows he is a remarkable person and player and its a shame that he and others have been put off by some of the stupid stuff posted.

 

[sarahrousey]

As one of the "pros" that posts here, it is hard to give lessons through words. I think many of the top players would really have a hard time doing so. Even if they tried, there would be a million questions to clarify different things. There are only so many answers you can give to certain questions as well.

I'm not really sure about everyone else, but I think it's cool to get insight from players while they are at tournaments or how they felt about things before, during, after the match. Or what they do to prepare or why they felt they didn't perform to their highest standard. It's also cool to see the pros and top players matching up through the forum. I know I have had a great time over the years posting in the ask the pro forum and making new friends around the world. I can't disagree with the idiots that pop up here and there, but the good outweigh the bad in the long run.

All that being said, I'm pretty sure that more pros than you think lurk here and some even post under names that don't give away their identity. Anyway, it's cool that there is at least a way to interact with pros and top players from around the world. I don't think there are many other sports that allow you to do so.

Thanks everyone for the support over the years.
Sarah

 

[Cornerman]

IMO, if a pro was a regular poster here, it's not because they're a pro. That would just be a coincidence.

Why would anyone post here, pro or amateur? Forum life is addictive and caters to certain personalities. What they do for a job is completely random.

That's why you have some industry people online all the time, and others not online anytime. Some can handle the internet idiocracy (like that word) while others can't. Substitute any random person whether it has anything to do with pool (like poolroom owner) or nothing to do with pool (like college professor).

So, there are a few pros that somehow can fade the nastiness and simply post as a person, not as a pro. When that happens, then that particular pro will do just fine here. When it doesn't, then people start accusing others of "running off pros." And I think that's unfair.

Sorry everyone, as much as I respect the pros and consider some of them friends, that doesn't mean they're offered any special treatment. I think that's the problem. Some posters believe they should get special treatment. This is an internet forum. Everyone is just a poster. Some are constant bashers. Some are constant complainers. Some are forum police. Some are nice guys. Some simply post the truth as they see it. Regardless, nobody gets special treatment. I''m unclear why the most succesful internet forum should think to change its recipe.

Pros should just come on and post. That's it. No expectations.

Fred

 

[ShootingArts]

have to agree

I have to agree with Fred here. I have posted on forums in other areas for years with current and former world champions, world record holders, and hall of famers. While they are given a certain amount of respect for their accomplishments, they aren't coddled. Although I think we have had issues of some people attacking pro's and their position on things on this forum purely to butt heads with a pro, most of the time people who don't see things the same way as the pro simply disagree.

Note that very few on here stoop and bow to the people that teach on here. Their opinions on things are well worth noting, particularly on the technical aspects of pool, but very few accept every word they type as gospel. The "how would you shoot this shot" threads are a fine example. Most nine ball players want to go multiple rails for shape. Straight pool and old school players usually want to roll the cue ball as little as possible. Each group is completely right that the best shot for them is the one they have used hundreds or thousands of times before.

Pro's should be welcomed here and gratuitous attacks on them promptly removed. However they should not be put on a pedestal and worshiped. We and they are all human and when we elevate them on a pedestal it raises their feet of clay which we all have to eye level. Pro's are no more perfect humans than anyone else and we need to understand that while respecting their skills and knowledge.

Excellent Post Fred!

Hu

IMO, if a pro was a regular poster here, it's not because they're a pro. That would just be a coincidence.

Why would anyone post here, pro or amateur? Forum life is addictive and caters to certain personalities. What they do for a job is completely random.

That's why you have some industry people online all the time, and others not online anytime. Some can handle the internet idiocracy (like that word) while others can't. Substitute any random person whether it has anything to do with pool (like poolroom owner) or nothing to do with pool (like college professor).

So, there are a few pros that somehow can fade the nastiness and simply post as a person, not as a pro. When that happens, then that particular pro will do just fine here. When it doesn't, then people start accusing others of "running off pros." And I think that's unfair.

Sorry everyone, as much as I respect the pros and consider some of them friends, that doesn't mean they're offered any special treatment. I think that's the problem. Some posters believe they should get special treatment. This is an internet forum. Everyone is just a poster. Some are constant bashers. Some are constant complainers. Some are forum police. Some are nice guys. Some simply post the truth as they see it. Regardless, nobody gets special treatment. I''m unclear why the most succesful internet forum should think to change its recipe.

Pros should just come on and post. That's it. No expectations.

Fred

 

[JCIN]

IMO, if a pro was a regular poster here, it's not because they're a pro. That would just be a coincidence.

Why would anyone post here, pro or amateur? Forum life is addictive and caters to certain personalities. What they do for a job is completely random.

That's why you have some industry people online all the time, and others not online anytime. Some can handle the internet idiocracy (like that word) while others can't. Substitute any random person whether it has anything to do with pool (like poolroom owner) or nothing to do with pool (like college professor).

So, there are a few pros that somehow can fade the nastiness and simply post as a person, not as a pro. When that happens, then that particular pro will do just fine here. When it doesn't, then people start accusing others of "running off pros." And I think that's unfair.

Sorry everyone, as much as I respect the pros and consider some of them friends, that doesn't mean they're offered any special treatment. I think that's the problem. Some posters believe they should get special treatment. This is an internet forum. Everyone is just a poster. Some are constant bashers. Some are constant complainers. Some are forum police. Some are nice guys. Some simply post the truth as they see it. Regardless, nobody gets special treatment. I''m unclear why the most succesful internet forum should think to change its recipe.

Pros should just come on and post. That's it. No expectations.

Fred

I see your point, but I have to disagree with you here. Can you imagine the crap Jeanette would have to put up with here if she was active (she may have been at some point in the past I don't know) or Allison or god forbid Earl?

I am used to forums and there is no way I would put up with what I KNOW they would have to deal with. People always talk about showing the legends and greats respect here but it always seems to go sideways somewhere along the way. Some people simply do not like having to argue endlessly like some here do and a pro is going to draw much more attention than any "normal" poster so it is not comparing apples to apples.

I think it says a lot for the 5 pros I can think of who do participate here (at least recently) Sarah, Louis, Danny and John with Bartram making a big splash in the last few weeks. Sarah and Louis are just 2 of the nicest people on the planet and it is impossible for anyone to be mean to them so they don't really count for the purposes of my argument , but the rest have been in some knock down drag outs that would have run thinner skinned people (pro or not) right off.

All that said I have no clue how to change things or even if it would be a good idea to try.

 

[Craig Fales]

Good thread. I'd fully support a swift kick in the pants by the mods to anyone who gets out of line with a pro. Even just a week-long ban or a warning would help to let both the offender and the pro know that the community doesn't tolerate that sort of BS on here.

Therein lays the rub...this forum is basically unmoderated...clowns come and go...trolls come and stay but nothing is done about it...most forums are alot stricter than this one...

 

[Tom M]

the internet's greatest triumph and greatest flaw is that it allows ANYONE to express their opinion and have it seen by people around the world...

if you don't want bad press... don't sell a crappy product...bottom line

It's not that simple, because no person or company can please everyone. You can have a stellar product and 9999 happy customers but one nit WHO WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH ANYTHING. We all know someone like this, and the internet gives this idiot the power to whip up a lynch mob and unfairly trash a business or product even if they don't deserve it. We've seen similar things happen here on AZ and I've seen it happen to excellent contractors in the woodworking world.

Yeah it's great and satisfying when the "power of the people" calls out a truly bad product or business practice, but it's ugly when a good company or product gets trashed by one jerk who would gripe because the $100 bill you loan him is wrinkled and then call you a greedy bastard when you ask him to pay it back at the agreed-upon date.

Tom

 

[Tom M]

I see your point, but I have to disagree with you here. Can you imagine the crap Jeanette would have to put up with here if she was active (she may have been at some point in the past I don't know) or Allison or god forbid Earl?

I am used to forums and there is no way I would put up with what I KNOW they would have to deal with. People always talk about showing the legends and greats respect here but it always seems to go sideways somewhere along the way. Some people simply do not like having to argue endlessly like some here do and a pro is going to draw much more attention than any "normal" poster so it is not comparing apples to apples.

That's exactly right, and if the pro in question takes the "high road" by not responding defensively (and thereby perpetuating the argument), they get accused of ducking. It's a no-win, all because of a very small number of forum members who seem to enjoy "keyboard confrontation".

The rest of us miss out as a result.

Tom

 

[inside_english]

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.


I was wondering why you thought this was so.

Do you think their chiming in from time to time would help expand their fan base or simply open them up to mean-spirited criticism?



Thoughts?

JoeyA

I have read all the posts and agree with the point that some members just want to argue or antagonize a pro just because they can. That would keep me away too.

It reminds me of something I witnessed in a different type of forum. I belong to an Internet Chess Club (www.chessclub.com) which allows you to play against other members, and sometimes even Grandmasters from all over the world. Well, as you may or may not know, Garry Kasparov is arguably the greatest chess player who ever lived, and it was announced that one day he would be online to answer questions.

People talk about know-it-alls in the pool forums. I can tell you they have nothing on know-it-alls in the chess world! These people are TOTALLY unbearable...and out of curiosity I watched the live chat with people trying to ask Garry chess questions. There were so many questions so fast that by the time he tried to respond to one another 50 - 75 other questions scrolled by! The moderators were literally begging members to slow it down, or keep the questions chess-related, and it was such a failure it did not last for more than 60 minutes.

So, can you imagine if Earl tried to post on here? Not only would people start bashing him for outbursts, there would be peripheral arguments between members as old issues (ones the pros try to put behind them) are brought up again, reopening old wounds etc. Who wants to deal with that? Or even worse, how about people bombarding some of the female pros with sexual questions? It would be a nightmare.

I don't blame them for staying away. As far as divulging their secrets...what secrets? What can any pro tell us that hasn't been mentioned in some book or video by now? It is up to us to practice, pratice, practice!

 

[uwate]

The pros might be more inclined to post if they knew they were not going to have to fend off idiots. One solution perhaps is to create a moderated forum where any posts made are reviewed before they are posted. I am not suggesting this for the main forums but only for the Ask the Pro area of AZB. Then any Pro who wanted to participate on AZB could do so without the fear of having to open up threads asking which hand he wipes his butt with.

 

[tucson9ball]

Pros

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.


I was wondering why you thought this was so.

Do you think their chiming in from time to time would help expand their fan base or simply open them up to mean-spirited criticism?



Thoughts?

JoeyA

The key word here is "pros". This is how they make a living. Their means of making money for bills etc. Why would they post on this forum for free? If they want to teach somebody, that is what private lessons are for. I really would be surprised if a pro gave free advice. This is just my opinion, but if I had some special way of making certain shots that others wanted to know, I would not tell them for free.

 

[billiardcue]

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.

I was wondering why you thought this was so.

Do you think their chiming in from time to time would help expand their fan base or simply open them up to mean-spirited criticism?

Thoughts?

JoeyA

Have never thought to ask any of the pro players about this subject but have spoken with many cuemakers about why they don't post here and the general consensus is that it is simply not worth the grief.

Think about the wealth of cue knowledge this forum misses out on.

At the recent BCA trade show in Charlotte several cuemakers and myself spoke with the owner of AzBilliards regarding this very topic. He is well aware of the fact that the problem exists but does not know how to control it.

As regards to the cuemakers not contributing, the problem becomes two-fold. Not only do they not lend their tremendous amount of knowledge, they don't advertise for the same reason. AzBilliards is a business and if not for paying sponsors it would not exist.

Think about this whenever you post a comment to a thread or start a thread.

 

[halhoule]

Pool

I have read all the posts and agree with the point that some members just want to argue or antagonize a pro just because they can. That would keep me away too.

It reminds me of something I witnessed in a different type of forum. I belong to an Internet Chess Club (www.chessclub.com) which allows you to play against other members, and sometimes even Grandmasters from all over the world. Well, as you may or may not know, Garry Kasparov is arguably the greatest chess player who ever lived, and it was announced that one day he would be online to answer questions.

People talk about know-it-alls in the pool forums. I can tell you they have nothing on know-it-alls in the chess world! These people are TOTALLY unbearable...and out of curiosity I watched the live chat with people trying to ask Garry chess questions. There were so many questions so fast that by the time he tried to respond to one another 50 - 75 other questions scrolled by! The moderators were literally begging members to slow it down, or keep the questions chess-related, and it was such a failure it did not last for more than 60 minutes.

So, can you imagine if Earl tried to post on here? Not only would people start bashing him for outbursts, there would be peripheral arguments between members as old issues (ones the pros try to put behind them) are brought up again, reopening old wounds etc. Who wants to deal with that? Or even worse, how about people bombarding some of the female pros with sexual questions? It would be a nightmare.

I don't blame them for staying away. As far as divulging their secrets...what secrets? What can any pro tell us that hasn't been mentioned in some book or video by now? It is up to us to practice, pratice, practice!

WRONG JOEY, AND I CAN PROVE IT.

HAL HOULE 484 623 4144

 

[ScottW]

People talk about know-it-alls in the pool forums. I can tell you they have nothing on know-it-alls in the chess world! These people are TOTALLY unbearable...and out of curiosity I watched the live chat with people trying to ask Garry chess questions. There were so many questions so fast that by the time he tried to respond to one another 50 - 75 other questions scrolled by! The moderators were literally begging members to slow it down, or keep the questions chess-related, and it was such a failure it did not last for more than 60 minutes.

Heh, that's *not* how to run an online chat with a guest who is supposed to respond to questions. You don't just leave the channel open and let the masses pound on their keyboards.

I ran a bunch of online chats in that vein back in '96, during the Republican and Democratic conventions that year - I was working for CNN. Did chats with Bill Frist, Rennie Davis (Chicago 7), Candace Gingrich, some chick who was on "Real World" and had gotten into politics, and Bill Press/Bob Novak from Crossfire, and the reporter who had broken the story that week about that one Clinton adviser who was banging some hooker and letting her listen in on phone convos. (Also did a big one with Magic Johnson, later in the year - boy that was a circus.)

I had the guest(s) on their own laptop, and me as moderator on my own - and I had a bunch of canned "how this chat works" text bits prepared, that I could go copy and paste into the chat every few min (to catch folks joining later). I had the channel locked down, and told folks to send ME their questions privately. I would then look over recent questions, pick a good one, and throw it out into the open, where the guest would see it, and give them time to respond. Then I'd toss another question out right after, keeping a good tempo up.

 

[alstl]

Mean spirited criticism and constant reminder of a situation some person saw where their advice didnt work for them.

" Hey Earl, that really worked for you in that match against Varner in June of 1991 didnt it??"

There are always THOSE types of guys hanging around...lol.

Exactly, and most of them can't run three balls. Just like the drunks at the ballpark who boo a pitcher for allowing a home run when they couldn't even throw the ball the 60 feet to the plate.

 

[halhoule]

Pool

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.


I was wondering why you thought this was so.

Do you think their chiming in from time to time would help expand their fan base or simply open them up to mean-spirited criticism?
IF YOU ARE STILL IN THE DARK I WILL SHOW YOU THE AIMING SYSTEM
AND YOU CAN BE THE JUDGE. I AM IN PA.

THE ONLY THING THE PRO HAS GOING IS HIS AIMING SYSTEM. IF YOU TAKE THAT AWAY FROM HIM HE HAS NOTHING ELSE TO SAY, THAT IS WHY THEY AVOID IT. THERE IS ONLY ONE PRO AIMING SYSTEM OUT THERE, AND EVERY PRO USES IT, EVERY ONE OF THEM. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CLOSED MOUTH ABOUT IT. IT HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1924. YOUR PRO HAS TO CLAM UP BECAUSE EVERY PRO HAS TO DO THE SAME. NOBODY LETS THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG, HAL HOULE

 

[halhoule]

Pool

There are a few pros that post on AZB from time to time but you SELDOM see them offering any pool tips on the Main Forum.


I was wondering why you thought this was so.

Do you think their chiming in from time to time would help expand their fan base or simply open them up to mean-spirited criticism?
IF YOU ARE STILL IN THE DARK I WILL SHOW YOU THE AIMING SYSTEM
AND YOU CAN BE THE JUDGE. I AM IN PA.

THE ONLY THING THE PRO HAS GOING IS HIS AIMING SYSTEM. IF YOU TAKE THAT AWAY FROM HIM HE HAS NOTHING ELSE TO SAY, THAT IS WHY THEY AVOID IT. THERE IS ONLY ONE PRO AIMING SYSTEM OUT THERE, AND EVERY PRO USES IT, EVERY ONE OF THEM. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE CLOSED MOUTH ABOUT IT. IT HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1934. YOUR PRO HAS TO CLAM UP BECAUSE EVERY PRO HAS TO DO THE SAME. NOBODY LETS THE CAT OUT OF THE BAG, HAL HOULE