You will hear people say ,when you got 2 great players, the last 2 or 8 dont mean nothing,i say that is total bullcrap,for instanced,iam getting the 7 from a great player,he breaks and doesnt make anything,now i push and tie the 8 and 9 up,now the 7 ball spot is looking huge,or getting the last 2 or 8,if iam running out,and the 8 is down table and the 9 is up table,now this spot comes into effect,i just think these spots are much more then most people tend to believe,please tell me what u guys think about this,thank you azers! ps-i hope this thread is not as dumb as it just sounded when i reread it,take it easy on me guys i got feelings toooooo.oh btw iam talking 9ball here,not that it probably matters!
Why does people keep saying,the last 2 or the 8 or 7 doesnt mean much?
- Thread starter richiebalto
- Start date
I'm with Neil on this one. The only time it would make that much of a difference is one in 15 games. Still that would be a mis match. Sometimes I would rather give the 6 than the 8 to a much weaker player. This way if you can't get out or be able to run the balls you can play safe up until the 5 or even the 6 if they couldn't see it. Get ball in hand make the 6 and play smart until the balls are all open. :thumbup2:
To add to that sometimes giving up balls closer to the 9 can be worse if you miplay position or plain miss.... You have to play really tight and it could cost you!!
To add to that sometimes giving up balls closer to the 9 can be worse if you miplay position or plain miss.... You have to play really tight and it could cost you!!
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I disagree respectfully neil. The biggest thing you will see with getting the last 2 or a wild ball with 2 great players isnt the fact that they are getting weight. It's how the weight changes the game.
For instance guy getting the last 2 NEVER has to play shape on the last ball. That's huge in pool at those levels. Ppl dont miss a lot of balls but playing shape, making the ball, with shape for the next is where things can go wrong. Any spot is a spot for sure.
For instance guy getting the last 2 NEVER has to play shape on the last ball. That's huge in pool at those levels. Ppl dont miss a lot of balls but playing shape, making the ball, with shape for the next is where things can go wrong. Any spot is a spot for sure.
How often do you see a top level player shooting the 8 ball not get out?
I'm one of those suckers who loves playing people who are above my speed, and let me tell you, the times I've shot with Mr. Mills, or Mr. Roberts, the last 2 didn't mean a damn thing.
If a top player is in line, and running out, the last two doesn't mean diddly.
In my opinion it doesnt mean anything at all, I would much rather have games on the wire as a spot.
I watched two guys playing 9 ball 5 ahead for some $ last night with one getting the 8 last night. In the end it meant diddly as the guy giving up that spot won both sets. The last time they played it was even and he won both those as well so in their case it does not mean much.... The better player/gambler won both times...
It's not really much weight for the top players. If they make the 8, they are probably 98% on making the 9.
I witnessed Roger Griffis offering another good player the 8, playing 9 ball. Rogers' backer asked Roger "can you give this guy that much"? Roger replied "If I can't give em the 8, I can't beat em even"!
True story.......
I witnessed Roger Griffis offering another good player the 8, playing 9 ball. Rogers' backer asked Roger "can you give this guy that much"? Roger replied "If I can't give em the 8, I can't beat em even"!
True story.......
Key statement is much. Two equal players I really don't see it being important. Take someone you play even with but beat most of the time--then give them one of the spots mentioned. You will see the outcome is not that much different.
However, where it can come into play is someone that might not normally give weight could have a problem with it as they might start thinking about that ball rather than just running out. Suddenly the pressure could sneak up on that person earlier than say the final ball, which changes how they play.
However, where it can come into play is someone that might not normally give weight could have a problem with it as they might start thinking about that ball rather than just running out. Suddenly the pressure could sneak up on that person earlier than say the final ball, which changes how they play.
Depends on the level of play. Make pool skill/ MPH metaphor.
To play good 9b, gotta go 85mph.
To play a gnear perfect set is 100mph.
Get 2 top level guys that go 120 & 110mph, what difference is 10mph on the top end make?
effectively 0
To play good 9b, gotta go 85mph.
To play a gnear perfect set is 100mph.
Get 2 top level guys that go 120 & 110mph, what difference is 10mph on the top end make?
effectively 0
Doesnt mean anything???
I dont know guys.., I dont see many guys trying to give people their speed the 8 ball. If the 8 doesnt mean anything, then what does, the 8 and the last two?
Do you guys think that Busta would give archer the 8?? Or that Shane would try to give Earl the 8?? I dont think so. I ahve seen the 8 or the 7 come up more than 1 in 15, I think that might be a little low?
I dont know guys.., I dont see many guys trying to give people their speed the 8 ball. If the 8 doesnt mean anything, then what does, the 8 and the last two?
Do you guys think that Busta would give archer the 8?? Or that Shane would try to give Earl the 8?? I dont think so. I ahve seen the 8 or the 7 come up more than 1 in 15, I think that might be a little low?
I agree King,i think it comes in play alot more for the guy getting the weight,annother words,the guy getting the 8,has it in his mind wow i only got to run until the 8,giving him a clear edge,if not on paper,but for sure in his mind(where it matters most).
What you say has a lot of merit to it. Also the guy getting the weight only needs to get position on his money ball, so he will try to get it good enough to feel comfortable in making it. The guy giving up the spot will have to have good position on that ball to get to his winning ball. This sometimes means a bit more difficult shape is needed to insure that he can get to the last ball.
When I was out there playing most of the time I had to give up weight and believe me each time the spot changed, even just a little, it could be felt. Eventually the weight becomes to heavy to carry.
You should know(and you do)exactly what iam talking about,you were there and did it!
Its widely known I'm not a top player(no shit 
), but I been around a long time and played lots of pool and seen lots of pool, so here is my experience to share with anyone who is interested in all my years I seen the last 2 be a meaningful spot one time for me. Here is the short story:
In 91-92 when Mary Kenningston(SP?) was in the top 5 on the woman's tour we would spar when she would come back to Vegas between stops on the Tour. We played races to 11, didnt bet a dollar but played hard. She played hard because it was her profession, I played hard because I respected her as a person and a pro player(it was a honor to play her). I couldnt beat her even I'd lose 11-10,11-9 and maybe 11-8. She gave me the 8 ball I won 11-10,9,8. we played enough sessions over a period of time that the score was predictable, I was playing full time, she was so we both were playing our best. Even I lost, getting the 8 I won. The last 2 was the line. in 26 years thats the only time I ever have seen the last 2 being a real line.
"the last 2" is just a good excuse to get up and play. its about 1 game to 10 for Mary and I back then, For Shane and Alex Its probably one game going to 30. I'm not sure. The stronger the players the less it would be.
thats how I see the last 2
best
Eric
I need the last 2 from the world right now I havent hit a ball in weeks. :frown:
), but I been around a long time and played lots of pool and seen lots of pool, so here is my experience to share with anyone who is interested in all my years I seen the last 2 be a meaningful spot one time for me. Here is the short story:In 91-92 when Mary Kenningston(SP?) was in the top 5 on the woman's tour we would spar when she would come back to Vegas between stops on the Tour. We played races to 11, didnt bet a dollar but played hard. She played hard because it was her profession, I played hard because I respected her as a person and a pro player(it was a honor to play her). I couldnt beat her even I'd lose 11-10,11-9 and maybe 11-8. She gave me the 8 ball I won 11-10,9,8. we played enough sessions over a period of time that the score was predictable, I was playing full time, she was so we both were playing our best. Even I lost, getting the 8 I won. The last 2 was the line. in 26 years thats the only time I ever have seen the last 2 being a real line.
"the last 2" is just a good excuse to get up and play. its about 1 game to 10 for Mary and I back then, For Shane and Alex Its probably one game going to 30. I'm not sure. The stronger the players the less it would be.
thats how I see the last 2
best
Eric
I need the last 2 from the world right now I havent hit a ball in weeks. :frown:
On that point, its funny how getting weight seems to be less than giving up the equal weight. Getting the 8 ball doesn't feel like much but when I give up the 8 it seems like its a bigger spot. I realize it depends on who your playing etc. I'm saying all things being equal, just in theory getting is nothing and giving up is a ton.
Perhaps thats because I'm not a real strong player, I suppose If I was capable of playing like a AAA player or just below the champions then it mite be different. I just know when I get the 8 it dont feel like much and when I give it up I can feel it lots more. Same for the 5, I play good enough to give the 5 to some guys and i feel like I got to run out every game(I have to to win), when I get the 5 i'm playing someone so good they can hit me with a 6 pack. funny how that works.
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Here is a more recent story about weight
I lost $9,000 this year to a guy over 10 sessions playing 8 ball, 4 racks was how many games I was down at the end. the amount bet moved around so the $$$ ended up being $9,000. Most games 90% were $1000/rack. we played 8 ball. Probably 200 racks i would guess i dont know i could be way off i was too focused to remember that, i just know the end of each session numbers. I gave him a huge spot in the beginning and won $5400. Then I gave him more weight he laid 6/5 on the $$$ $1200 to my $1000/game. Each session he played better, he played years ago so he never picked the wrong balls off, he had all the breaks so sometimes he would win 2 in a row(3 one time I never got up). As he kept getting better, back to his old self the weight was getting heavier and heavier, we lowered the spot to every other rack(Id win the pick 4 he would win the pick 5-I couldnt out run it by now around the 5th session). One session he beat me 5 games one 4 games. We broke even probably 5 or 6 times. He bought his own cue after 4 or 5 sessions and I noticed the shaft was darker(he was practicing before we played somewhere else), I was too but I was instroke and he was getting instroke. I could tell he knew what he was doing even when he played bad and I won $5400, he didnt think bad and didnt miss, his speed control was not good. he didnt rattle for the $$. I tried to jack the bet up when I had the best of it, he didnt. Point is he got back in gear and slowly over a 3-4 week period the weight was more than I could fade and I lost. 4 games behind 9 dimes.
We switched to 9 ball, he wanted the 4, I agreed. I was stuck $4,000 that day, I said "Ok the 4 is fine", I wanted to give him the 5 but figured it was close enough, I only had 6K left, I thought we were gona bet $1000/game. He wanted to bet $100. I said "I'm stuck 40 barrels" So I win the first game for $100 or $200, I was pissed he was betting nothing($100 is nothing when you been playing for $1000 for 3 weeks), the next game he thought he was getting the 4-out, we had a refree we agreed on, there was a big beef. he didnt know the difference between the 4 and the 4 out(i know he did-it was a move to end the action). Shane could give him the 4 out and mite win, I sure as hell couldnt win. I dont know if I liked the 4, but I was playing good and had my nose open, I asked to play for $500/game he wouldnt. The game ended I never played him again. I dont know what happpened to the $100 or $200 I won in the first game of 9 ball, we didnt finish the 2nd game because of the beef, so he out managed me too. i learned something there. I have been up $$ and switched games to get out with the $$$, but he blind sided me with that move, he could have won a pile more-for that reason and the fact he is loaded(over 100 million easy) I didnt see him ducking out, he had me hooked and I couldnt high roll him. So I got beat and out managed. Never too old to learn, he used my moves on me. I hate when that happens.
What really sucks is I wish I could be in action like this all the time, sure I lost but I could have won, I did win once. This guy had heart and was smart. Maybe he saw something he didnt like and got out with the $$, I was very suprised he made that move, its hard to find anyone who will play everyday for $$ without changing the spot if they lose, or barely change it. They want to go from the 8 ball to the 5 ball after they blow $100, thats LA style pool and why i'm not playing.
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I learned some years ago,when i got a sucker stuck(in ur case not a sucker)dont give a sucker an 2nd chance,iam not going to change the game the same day,if we quit and iam a big winner that day,then i will change the game the next day,dont change the game when u got someone stuck,make them quit and come back tomorrow,then change it.