Why don't all cuemakers line up ring work at the joint?

[rhncue]

I think I agree most with this statement.

I agree also 100%. The absolute best effort should go into every cue made so, of coarse, all cues should have either solid gold or platinum rings, gold and silver veneers, every thing should align perfectly, all inlays and points should be sharp, a completely unique cue and of coarse, it will have a price tag commensurate with the time and materials involved. However, not everyone wants to spend a 100,000.00 on a cue. Time is money - period. The more time involved building a cue, the more it costs. As has been said, aligning the rings up exactly does not take much knowledge but it does take time. Trimming the deco-ring until the rings align cures one problem but it now has created a new one as now the ring in front of the joint is a different length than the one behind the joint. I don't make collector's cues. I make players that I want to look nice but as reasonably as possible. Aligning all rings in the butt takes no more time or effort so is always done but aligning the shaft does. If some one ordering a cue from me has in his parameters that he wants the shaft rings perfectly aligned then that is no problem and it will be done, but at a nominal surcharge.

Dick

 

[KJ Cues]

Your kidding right? It doesn't matter if you can feel the inlays through the finish either you will not miss a ball because of it but it shows the cue maker either doesn't know what he is doing or doesn't care. Every cue should reflect the cue makers best effort regardless of the cost.

No, actually I'm not kidding. I don't like them.
Which part of 'to each his own' has you the most perplexed?
It's a simple concept. You do it your way and I'll do it mine.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion but please don't tout it as the only way.

I don't have any problem selling cues and no one that I've sold a cue to has ever made the complaint that the rings don't line-up.

Somebody better tell SouthWest that they don't know what they're doing or that they just don't care. Then go plead your case with Schon.

Where'd you get the inlay analogy? I thought the topic was ring alignment.
Look, at the end of the day, if you don't like the cue, just walk away.
Please, just walk away.

 

[Sheldon]

It takes a bit of forethought and a little extra time and effort.
This is (for me) part of what makes a "custom" cue, and one of the things that separates the small shop from the production shop.

 

[Graciocues]

It's easy to line the rings up and IMO all rings should line up. Points and inlays should be centered with with the rings also.
It's takes 5 minutes. I can't think of any reason to skip this finishing step on any cue.

 

[macguy]

It's easy to line the rings up and IMO all rings should line up. Points and inlays should be centered with with the rings also.
It's takes 5 minutes. I can't think of any reason to skip this finishing step on any cue.

Quality is always in the details you can see. It is a tip off, or at least you can hope, that there was the same attention to detail in what you can't see. It speaks about the person, they care.

I have an accountant who when I get my papers back I always am so impressed with the presentation. Everything color coded and in perfect order. You may say "Isn't it supposed to be that way"? I would say yes also, but he could also just shove a bunch of papers in an envelope with a X where to sign.

I forget where I saw it but I saw an office sign once that said,

"Always deliver more then you promise and you will never disappoint".

Sounds like a good policy and good business.

 

[1pRoscoe]

It's like a friend of mine once said...

"It's funny how we have friends like Showman, Searing, and Haley.... because we've learned what to look for in their cues, we hold most other cue makers to a higher expectation because of it."

In most instances, you get what you pay for.

 

[manwon]

Wow, I had no idea that if the rings don't line up, it has nothing to do wtih making balls.

I learn so much from reading this forum...........

Quit being a smart ass, young one, and get your butt down here for some Pool!!!!!:grin:

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

It's like someone said earlier, if you take the time to line them up , after a while they look a little off anyway. I take the time to line them up & then coat the joint surfaces with thin super glue. This helps the surfaces from compressing. I also use the 24 slot rings as my standard. That way there are so many lines, they are always close to one or another. Sometimes you try & try, but you can never please every body...JER

 

[conetip]

I have seen very nice cues where the maker has gone to the trouble to get everything as close as possible to line up and look good.
Then 1 of 2 things happen, they buy an aftermarket shaft and the there are no matching rings on the new shaft, or
2, They ham fist the joint that they are miss aligned, then blame the maker for poor workmanship.
I prefer to have all the decoration in the handle only, that way when another shaft is fitted, at least the cue still looks realy nice, nomatter how tight they twist the handle on.

Neil

 

[Impact Blue]

God is in the details.

• If you were buying a $500/1,000 player from me and asked why the rings don't align at the joint, I'd first tell you that I don't like them aligned. Then I'd ask you 'how many balls' will this 'defect' cost you?
  
• ...you really care that the joint rings on your cue don't quite perfectly align? If you do, then you are someone that I would take great joy in playing.
  
• At the end of the day, it's up to you what you find to be important in a cue.

I don't understand the above statements: Does aligned rings take away from the performance of a cue? or should the customer sacrifice any sort of aesthetic appeal because the cue maker doesn't find those details important? Or is $500 bucks a laughable amount?

I'm not a cue maker, but see form AND function. Why should anyone prioritize the two, especially if they consider themselves an artist. When it can be done, and still provide the playability that meets expectations, why should the maker want to represent himself without that?

Can I just say that I don't even want to tell you how many PM's I've gotten from cue makers that are saying that their peers not taking the time lining up joint rings are doing it because it's detail intensive, or time consuming, or a high risk of error.

Personally, I think the hardest thing to digest is the idea that "my" potential cue maker does not have eye for this sort of detail, or worse yet if he does, doesn't care enough about his work or his customers' investment to take the time to line it up, maybe even knowing that it'll end up not lining up from future use.

(Wow, I'm offended maybe.)

If I wanted to impress my friends, I'd pick up a house cue and make some money. Just because someone like me would care, makes us good ATM's...LOL, I'll try it.

Heads.

 

[hangemhigh]

When I am looking to buy a new cue I expect it to be as perfect as possible. I understand the tip will wear out, the wrap will get dirty, the shafts will blue, the rings at the joint will not match up from use over time. I don't expect the impossible, but if your work is not as good as it could be from the get-go, that is all I need to know.

 

[JoeyInCali]

The sky is blue.

 

[Danktrees]

No, actually I'm not kidding. I don't like them.
Which part of 'to each his own' has you the most perplexed?
It's a simple concept. You do it your way and I'll do it mine.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion but please don't tout it as the only way.

I don't have any problem selling cues and no one that I've sold a cue to has ever made the complaint that the rings don't line-up.

Somebody better tell SouthWest that they don't know what they're doing or that they just don't care. Then go plead your case with Schon.

Where'd you get the inlay analogy? I thought the topic was ring alignment.
Look, at the end of the day, if you don't like the cue, just walk away.
Please, just walk away.

well i dont think anyone was claiming that aligning them would allow u to pot more balls so using the "i dont align them because they dont matter with regards to potting balls" argument doesnt hold as it has nothing to do with anything which is what macguy was trying to show u with his analogy.

obviously u are entitled to ur own opinion and as u said, u dont like to align them so thats fine. but then to say that theres no reason to align them cuz u cant pot more balls as a result of it is irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything as no one ever made the claim that it will. macguy simply stated that butchered inlays would be the same, they dont affect ur ball potting ability but that shouldnt mean that its ok to do so.

if u dont like aligning them because they take away from the "free flowing" nature of the cue then thats something no one can argue against since it's ur cue. but dont mention anything about ball potting and the playability of the cue as a point of contention when no one even brought it up.

 

[KJ Cues]

Originally Posted by KJ Cues - Quoted by Impact Blue

* If you were buying a $500/1,000 player from me and asked why the rings don't align at the joint, I'd first tell you that I don't like them aligned. Then I'd ask you 'how many balls' will this 'defect' cost you?
* ...you really care that the joint rings on your cue don't quite perfectly align? If you do, then you are someone that I would take great joy in playing.
* At the end of the day, it's up to you what you find to be important in a cue.

I don't understand the above statements: Does aligned rings take away from the performance of a cue? or should the customer sacrifice any sort of aesthetic appeal because the cue maker doesn't find those details important? Or is $500 bucks a laughable amount?

I'm not a cue maker, but see form AND function. Why should anyone prioritize the two, especially if they consider themselves an artist. When it can be done, and still provide the playability that meets expectations, why should the maker want to represent himself without that?

Can I just say that I don't even want to tell you how many PM's I've gotten from cue makers that are saying that their peers not taking the time lining up joint rings are doing it because it's detail intensive, or time consuming, or a high risk of error.

Personally, I think the hardest thing to digest is the idea that "my" potential cue maker does not have eye for this sort of detail, or worse yet if he does, doesn't care enough about his work or his customers' investment to take the time to line it up, maybe even knowing that it'll end up not lining up from future use.

(Wow, I'm offended maybe.)

If I wanted to impress my friends, I'd pick up a house cue and make some money. Just because someone like me would care, makes us good ATM's...LOL, I'll try it.

Heads.

Sentence #3 answers sentence #1. Actually, it answers #2 also. It would be more relevant though had you not taken it out of context.
You asked the initial question and I tried to give you an answer that I thought you could understand, and that is, that not everyone cares for them aligned. It takes just as much time to align them as it does to deliberately mis-align them. That's not the point. It's about preference.

 

[dave sutton]

The sky is blue.

sometimes...

 

[KJ Cues]

well i dont think anyone was claiming that aligning them would allow u to pot more balls so using the "i dont align them because they dont matter with regards to potting balls" argument doesnt hold as it has nothing to do with anything which is what macguy was trying to show u with his analogy.

obviously u are entitled to ur own opinion and as u said, u dont like to align them so thats fine. but then to say that theres no reason to align them cuz u cant pot more balls as a result of it is irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything as no one ever made the claim that it will. macguy simply stated that butchered inlays would be the same, they dont affect ur ball potting ability but that shouldnt mean that its ok to do so.

if u dont like aligning them because they take away from the "free flowing" nature of the cue then thats something no one can argue against since it's ur cue. but dont mention anything about ball potting and the playability of the cue as a point of contention when no one even brought it up.

I never said that there is no reason to align the rings and it has nothing to do with 'potting' balls. That's just the point. It has zero to do with making balls. You do it when the cue or the client calls for it.
I don't know why I have to keep quoting myself with this, I thought once would have been sufficient : "At the end of the day, it's up to you what you find to be important in a cue."
If ring placement at the joint is a top priority for you then go for it.

 

[KJ Cues]

When I am looking to buy a new cue I expect it to be as perfect as possible. I understand the tip will wear out, the wrap will get dirty, the shafts will blue, the rings at the joint will not match up from use over time. I don't expect the impossible, but if your work is not as good as it could be from the get-go, that is all I need to know.

I don't see much in the way of correlation btwn. a builder's choice of ring placement and their quality of work level. One's a preference, the other is an ability.

 

[dave sutton]

disagree. there isnt a HUGE difference between a reg old mid level maker and the ELITE. tolerances and attention to detail is what sets them apart. making them inays razor sharp or perfect leather wraps no lips. perfect rings fall into that catagory. the people will judge your work then place you. your demand will determine your market. they make you or break you.

 

[hangemhigh]

I don't see much in the way of correlation btwn. a builder's choice of ring placement and their quality of work level. One's a preference, the other is an ability.

You have me convinced.

 

[manwon]

I don't understand the above statements: Does aligned rings take away from the performance of a cue? or should the customer sacrifice any sort of aesthetic appeal because the cue maker doesn't find those details important? Or is $500 bucks a laughable amount?

I'm not a cue maker, but see form AND function. Why should anyone prioritize the two, especially if they consider themselves an artist. When it can be done, and still provide the playability that meets expectations, why should the maker want to represent himself without that?

Can I just say that I don't even want to tell you how many PM's I've gotten from cue makers that are saying that their peers not taking the time lining up joint rings are doing it because it's detail intensive, or time consuming, or a high risk of error.

Personally, I think the hardest thing to digest is the idea that "my" potential cue maker does not have eye for this sort of detail, or worse yet if he does, doesn't care enough about his work or his customers' investment to take the time to line it up, maybe even knowing that it'll end up not lining up from future use.

(Wow, I'm offended maybe.)

If I wanted to impress my friends, I'd pick up a house cue and make some money. Just because someone like me would care, makes us good ATM's...LOL, I'll try it.

Heads.

Personally, I think the hardest thing to digest is the idea that "my" potential cue maker does not have eye for this sort of detail, or worse yet if he does, doesn't care enough about his work or his customers' investment to take the time to line it up, maybe even knowing that it'll end up not lining up from future use.

First you talk about an Artist when referring to a cue maker, now what if by that Artists eye rings that are in-line really do not go with the flow of what he is trying to Artistically achieve. I am not saying this is always the case though, maybe some newer makers do not know any better. However, I do not think it has anything to do with not caring enough about his work, or his customers investment, I mean who says that lining up rings is Politically Correct in the first place. Please tell me who made the rules, who was the first person to implement them as a standard, and where this was started?

I think that conventional wisdom and standards do not always apply where artistic values are concerned. Innovation and creativity would kinda come to a halt if everyone just followed a prescribed standard blindly just because!!!!!!!!! I do not think that there are any clear lines out side of construction stability when art is applied to cue making.

To much Coffee today!!!!!