Why Don't Some Of The pros put on tournaments?

[Johnnyt]

Most of the top pros gamble head to head and/or play in ring games with other pros. Being that there are not enough pro tournaments and sponsors to add money, why don't a pro or 2 from each state put on mini tournaments with hight entry fee? 16 players paying in $250- $500 makes for some nice top 6 pay-outs. There would be a total of $4000-$8000 up for grabs. The only reason I can think of is most of them just want to play when they have the nuts. Johnnyt

 

[macguy]

Most of the top pros gamble head to head and/or play in ring games with other pros. Being that there are not enough pro tournaments and sponsors to add money, why don't a pro or 2 from each state put on mini tournaments with hight entry fee? 16 players paying in $250- $500 makes for some nice top 6 pay-outs. There would be a total of $4000-$8000 up for grabs. The only reason I can think of is most of them just want to play when they have the nuts. Johnnyt

I think as most pros sit around waiting for their worlds to change or someone to hand them a bone. What they don't realize is it is within their own grasp to make change happen. You can't really change the world but can certainly change your own world and take a few others along with you. For example, any player or room owner for that matter can do monthly challenge matches that can also be streamed. Two or four players head to head or ring games etc. By themselves these are not big events but will benefit at least a few and provide the public with the feeling something is going on in the sport. There are plenty of ideas.

 

[CreeDo]

You think they don't do this because they lack the heart? Maybe they'd rather play one worldbeater for 10k than 6 of them for 4k.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Most of the top pros gamble head to head and/or play in ring games with other pros. Being that there are not enough pro tournaments and sponsors to add money, why don't a pro or 2 from each state put on mini tournaments with high entry fee? 16 players paying in $250- $500 makes for some nice top 6 pay-outs. There would be a total of $4000-$8000 up for grabs. The only reason I can think of is most of them just want to play when they have the nuts. Johnnyt

How does this transfer money from people-who-are-not-pro-players into the pros' pockets? Unless you get money from sponsors or the gate, the players do not come out ahead on average. In most tournaments today, the also-rans donate to the champs. That's also a shaky funding model.

Another problem is that an organized event will involve 1099s.

 

[JoeyA]

It costs MONEY to put on tournaments. Successful tournaments take lots of planning and coordination. It also takes volunteers like tournament directors and other support people. Also the pro players do not want the hassle of promoting and directing a pool tournament.

In spite of the recent efforts in rule changes to make it impossible for a top amateur player to win a match against a top professional player, the pro players need the "donations" of the lesser players to fill the pot. Even so, as one of the lesser players, I feel honored to have the opportunity to make my contributions whenever I can.

I'm sure MOST players, not just the pros, like getting the nuts.

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

I think as most pros sit around waiting for their worlds to change or someone to hand them a bone. What they don't realize is it is within their own grasp to make change happen. You can't really change the world but can certainly change your own world and take a few others along with you. For example, any player or room owner for that matter can do monthly challenge matches that can also be streamed. Two or four players head to head or ring games etc. By themselves these are not big events but will benefit at least a few and provide the public with the feeling something is going on in the sport. There are plenty of ideas.

I like your post A LOT!

There are people in virtually every pool room who would volunteer their time to help pro players get the job done but ACTIVE participation aka: WORK, by the pro players is required.

Changing how you participate in the world for the better, affects your own personal happiness and the happiness of those around you. If each of us (including the pros) did our own part, the pool world would be a better place.


JoeyA

 

[Bob Jewett]

... rule changes to make it impossible for a top amateur player to win a match against a top professional player ...

I'm curious Joey, which changes are those? 10 ball? The gyrations around the break?

Shouldn't we be in favor of any rule change that is an advantage for the more skillful player? Isn't it better for the better players to win the tournaments? Should they flip coins instead?

 

[JB Cases]

Um, Charlie Williams puts on several big events per year. Corey Duel puts on a couple events. Shannon Daulton and Tommy Kennedy both tun tours of their own. Allen Hopkins puts on an expo with a pro event attached.

Kelly Fisher and company run the KwikFire tour.

Mike Zuglan runs the Joss Tour.

Did I miss any?

 

[Johnnyt]

How does this transfer money from people-who-are-not-pro-players into the pros' pockets? Unless you get money from sponsors or the gate, the players do not come out ahead on average. In most tournaments today, the also-rans donate to the champs. That's also a shaky funding model.

Another problem is that an organized event will involve 1099s.

The also ran model is about finished. They are finally smarting up or the economy won't let them throw momey away. 1099's are not that hard to deal with. Johnnyt

 

[cleary]

I'm curious Joey, which changes are those? 10 ball? The gyrations around the break?

Shouldn't we be in favor of any rule change that is an advantage for the more skillful player? Isn't it better for the better players to win the tournaments? Should they flip coins instead?

Luck and roll might be a little better to watch. Making pool more boring doesn't help its viewablity.

 

[JoeyA]

I'm curious Joey, which changes are those? 10 ball? The gyrations around the break?

Shouldn't we be in favor of any rule change that is an advantage for the more skillful player? Isn't it better for the better players to win the tournaments? Should they flip coins instead?

NO, we shouldn't be in favor of ANY rule change that is an advantage for the more skillful player.

First off, the better players should and will win the vast majority of all tournaments regardless of how much luck is involved with pool.

Luck is an integral part of practically ANY SPORT or game. The attempt to eliminate the luck factor entirely from the sport of pocket billiards seems to me, to be counter-productive, if we are interested in the massess getting behind the sport.

The public likes to see the underdog make a run against the big dog. They always have and always will. (Just to add, even with the underdog making a run after the big dog, the big dog will almost always come out on top, even with a little luck accidentally dumped in the lap of the underdog. )

A little luck can keep things exciting but the winners will almost always be the big dogs because luck goes both ways.

JoeyA

 

[Big Dave]

Amateur Leagues, Pro Tours and a strong, solvent, responsive and sympathetic "Governing Body" is surely the way forward?

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I'm curious Joey, which changes are those? 10 ball? The gyrations around the break?

Shouldn't we be in favor of any rule change that is an advantage for the more skillful player? Isn't it better for the better players to win the tournaments? Should they flip coins instead?

I understand what you are saying Bob, but I'd hardly consider a 9 Ball tournament a coin flip. When was the last time a banger won the US Open 9 Ball, or even the Swanee for that matter? Yet it does offer the dead money the perception they have a better opportunity to come in the cash than a 10 Ball event does. Actually, it probably will not affect what caliber of player will win the event, and the additional luck in 9 Ball is probably more perceived than actual to the dead money that might consider entering the event.

The World Series of Poker main event is $10 grand to enter, for gosh sakes, yet thousands line up to test their "luck". How many really think they have the pure skill to compete with a Phil Ivey? But the perceived luck is enough to convince a lot of people to throw in and try - and many more to tune in to see if an amateur can beat the world beaters - even on one hand.

At the Predator 10 Ball in Vegas a couple of years ago, I think it was Yu Ram Cha who played a heavily favored SVB. As YRC hung in with Shane the crowd got real excited. By the time YRC was on the hill everyone in the crowd had come over to that table to watch. When she won, the crowd went nuts. OK, it was 10 Ball, but the example was just to illustrate people are interested when a heavy underdog has a shot at beating the favorite. Giving the underdog a shot, even if only a perceived one, ain't automatically a bad thing.

Besides, one could argue there is a lot more luck in the 10 Ball break than the 9 Ball break, and quite often a match is decided by "who broke better". Well, since the 10 ball rack is considered to produce a more random break than 9 Ball, one could say that the guy who "broke better" is really the guy who got luckier. And the guy who broke better is often the deciding factor in a 10 Ball match.

I just don't see why in pool there is this effort to try to legislate ALL of the luck out of the game because it's just not possible. I just think that when discussing expert play some people exaggerate the amount of luck involved in 9 Ball and underplay the luck involved in 10 Ball. At the pro level, there is not much in either, but probably more in the 10 Ball break, and the break is a big part of determining the winner. Footballs bounce funny and baseballs occasionally take a bad hop. Luck plays a little part in every game that uses balls.


DPP <<< likes 9 Ball and 10 Ball. :grin:

 

[Gmanpoke]

Um, Charlie Williams puts on several big events per year. Corey Duel puts on a couple events. Shannon Daulton and Tommy Kennedy both tun tours of their own. Allen Hopkins puts on an expo with a pro event attached.

Kelly Fisher and company run the KwikFire tour.

Mike Zuglan runs the Joss Tour.

Did I miss any?

Gabe put on the T-Town classic

 

[JAM]

I like this thread. I am really enjoying all the great ideas contributed.

Definitely food for thought. Who needs the pool organizational entities to give professional players the green light to move forward.

You're right. The pro players are the actors, and as such, they should create their own destiny.

I look forward to reading more ideas. Keep 'em coming. This thread is very timely.

 

[CreeDo]

NO, we shouldn't be in favor of ANY rule change that is an advantage for the more sillful player.

First off, the better players should and will win the vast majority of all tournaments regardless of how much luck is involved with pool.

Luck is an integral part of practically ANY SPORT or game. The attempt to eliminate the luck factor entirely from the sport of pocket billiards seems to me, to be counter-productive, if we are interested in the massess getting behind the sport.

The public likes to see the underdog make a run against the big dog. They always have and always will.

JoeyA

What happens when the pros get burnt one to many times, and don't want to gamble thousands of dollars of travel expenses on a coin flip? If they played better than a guy who is at best equal, maybe a little worse... and the better player still lost... are they eager to come back next year?

To be honest I'm not entirely sure the underdog thing matters as much as you think. I'm a very casual basketball fan and you know what team I liked growing up? That's right, THA BULLS. I liked to watch the best player in the world make all those underdogs look like clowns. I could watch MJ and co. club baby seals allll day. People also like to see one amazing dominating talent rise up and just own the game for a few years. Maybe more than they like to see the scrappy underdog steal a game he wasn't supposed to.

---

If good for fans = bad for players, then screw it. The fair-weather fans can go watch football and the people who enjoy a good FAIR game of pool can play their dying niche game on the few decaying tables left in the area.

 

[Taco]

Um, Charlie Williams puts on several big events per year. Corey Duel puts on a couple events. Shannon Daulton and Tommy Kennedy both tun tours of their own. Allen Hopkins puts on an expo with a pro event attached.

Kelly Fisher and company run the KwikFire tour.

Mike Zuglan runs the Joss Tour.

Did I miss any?

Tony Robles - Predator Tour

 

[CarlB]

Um, Charlie Williams puts on several big events per year. Corey Duel puts on a couple events. Shannon Daulton and Tommy Kennedy both tun tours of their own. Allen Hopkins puts on an expo with a pro event attached.

Kelly Fisher and company run the KwikFire tour.

Mike Zuglan runs the Joss Tour.

Did I miss any?

Well Said...Green to you.

Carl

 

[Johnnyt]

Um, Charlie Williams puts on several big events per year. Corey Duel puts on a couple events. Shannon Daulton and Tommy Kennedy both tun tours of their own. Allen Hopkins puts on an expo with a pro event attached.

Kelly Fisher and company run the KwikFire tour.

Mike Zuglan runs the Joss Tour.

Did I miss any?

KwikFire tour folded. What I said was 1 or 2 pros from each state put on a few tournaments a year. I'm sure there is 1 or 2 rooms in each state that would be glad to host a 16 player tournaments with pros if they didn't have to add anything. One of the big problems for the pros is that the US is such a large area= big travel expense, and this would put a lot of tournaments with in driving distance in most areas. I also think 1 day would be enough for a 16 player duble elim tournament. Johnnyt

 

[watchez]

Um, Charlie Williams puts on several big events per year. Corey Duel puts on a couple events. Shannon Daulton and Tommy Kennedy both tun tours of their own. Allen Hopkins puts on an expo with a pro event attached.

Kelly Fisher and company run the KwikFire tour.

Mike Zuglan runs the Joss Tour.

Did I miss any?

I have said this before - there is ONE Pro that can put on a tour and it would be successful. One Pro that has gotten lots of backing, sponsorship, exhibition work outside of the pool world where there is real money. One Pro that is more popular and a household name and appeal inside and out of the pool world than any other.

Jeanette Lee - and they should have men and women events going on at the same time. One convention center/casino area rental fee - one tournament director fee - one travel expense fee for the equipment, promotors, players and fans.