Why Eufemia's 625 run isn't considerd the record?

Slim J

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I still hear Mosconi's 526 run refered to all the time as top run. Why? I'm sure Mike Eufemia's 625 was on a 9 ft. table and if Mosconi's was on an 8' that even more of a reason to recognize the 625.

I know for a while Ray Martin mentioned this in the beginning of his book 99 Critical Shots' but newer copies don't mention it.

Anyone know why?
 
...because Mosconi's was witnessed by about 50 people

Eufemia's legendary run was seen by only a couple of others, and no press to cover it, making Mosconi's run the 'authorized' high run.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Eufemia's legendary run was seen by only a couple of others, and no press to cover it, making Mosconi's run the 'authorized' high run.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Well Mr. Lee, that is totally wrong, sit down for a little history lesson and learn something here. Fast Larry broke the world's fast rack run of break and run 15 and out in 33.95 sec, beating the world record that stood for 8 years by a full 4 seconds on a 9' table. Pearson comes along and goes a second under him but on a 7' table, the shorter the table, the faster you can run around it and the easier the pots are. There are two world records there, fl on his 9' table, the better and harder run, and Daves on the bar box 7' easier table. It is only fair to seperate the two.

It should have been the same back then giving willie the high run on the 8 and Michael the high run on the 9. So why did they not do that?
Michael who, a total nobody. He was no star and considered a joke. He was the greatest player and ball runner of all time. Ray Martin, 3 times world champion played in his same room and told me many times he would be on a run, ray would go out to dinner, come back 2 or 3 hrs later and he would still be on the same run. Ray forgot how many times he saw the guy run over 400/.

When the poor guy would go into competition he would lock up so badly under the lights scores would be 150 to 1 or 2. They guy would fold up faster than a kmart $3 blue light special card table. Ham and eggers would beat on this guy like he was their rented mule. So nobody running pool wanted to see this guy become any thing and above all take away the games leading star's most cherished record. To them, the bum did not deserve it even though he did it.

The same thing happened to FL when he set the worlds first 10, then 11 and 12 rail bank. He as a nobody, a pool player and that record was reserved for Hoppe, or a billiard star and they all tried to rob him of his achievement. He fought back and held on to it, Michael just let it go.

Mosconi makes his run in 54, 3 years later the game is dead and over. But at the time of his run Brunswick ruled and ran the game. They had 12 great stars that toured the country and they made them stars. During this period they lost all of the greatest stars all overnight. Hoppe died, Greenleaf was banned from the game for being a drunk and heroin addict and an embarassment in public, he then died. Mosoni in 57 would be banned from the game for punching out a ref, then his brain blew up from too much speed and he was crippled, recovered but his game was then always 25% below his former AAA game nobody could touch.

Ike is in office, a new invention TV comes along and nobody wamt to go play pool, they all want to set home and watch uncle miltie and the new invention called TV. Most take up golf and drop pool. Over night all the legendary rooms close as most do also around the country. The game totally collapses and in 57 the BCA closes its door and throws 80 years of priceless history into the dumpster and walks off. There would not be another BCA or tourney, the usopen unti 1966, a full decade later.

Ray in his book states he made the run. In my files I have the signatures of 50 people who saw it, swore to it in writing giving their names and addresses attesting to the feat. As many saw him make his run as saw Willie do his on his 8' table with bucket 5 l/2" pockets which Gerni verified as he was on that table right after the run in 1954 at the East High billiards club in Springfield, Ohio. Mikes run happened at the Logan billiard academy in Brooklyn, NY on February 2, 1960 on a 4l/2x9' table. It was a pre=scheduled match attended by a standing room only audience.
So when Willie did his run there was a governing body to endorse it. When Eufemia did his in 1960 there was nobody to endorse it and no pool coverage which is why is fell under the covers and simply vanished to be soon forgotten.

When the BCA came back in 66 and Brunswick took back over control trying to then run it as bowling and pool, putting pool in all the bowling alleys they must have helped hide and kill the story to protect their main star Mosconi. Willie recovered and was then just doing shows and exhititons as was Caras and Crane and he did know about the eufemia record and tried to cap it hard and long. The powers to be figured to squelch his record until Willie topped it and it was a mute point. Every day Willie would put on a show, run 10 trick shots and then play 3 local hacks, giving him 3 chances to put down a long run. You were guaranteed to see him run a centrury, sometimes 200. He was always on a brand new bruswick with brand new cloth, his personal set of centinneals and bucket pockets. The local dealer set up the table to be perfect or Willie had a cow.

The best Willie was able to run in practice was 479, he never got there. Soon he got old and lost his game. He was lucky then to run barely 200 now and then by the mid 60's. There are strong rumors 3 other people ran 600 as well, Parker and Cranfield. With no tourneys, no BCA the hustlers took over the game and called it a jamboree where the top 100 came to Little Egypt, Johnson City, Ill and played each other for a month until one guy had all the loot. Of the old great tin cup players, only Crane came in.

In 61 the Jansco brothers only had 12 guys show, in 62 it was better and in 63 the word was out it was wide open down there and the event and joint was packed. It was the greatest pool seen during the 2nd half of the 20th century. Nothing since then has came close to it. To win you have to win 2 out of 3 tourneys, one hole, straight and 9 ball. The real tourney was not in the pits where whimpy and Boston Shorty and Champage Eddy Kelly stared, it was the 2 tables in the back room where the real pool was played for cash. Fatty was taking out Forence, Omaha Fat, Martin Kiaman was taking out every one who wanted to play one handed jack up.

Later in the 60's Jim Mckay and the wild world of sports covered the event on live TV and the BCA came back in 66. Pool was saved by the hustlers and it went back on a rool with new rooms opening up in the surburbs. All the old downtown legendary rooms were now just a memory with only Chris's surviving. Then the feds walk and and bust the joint and arrest the entire crew. Fatty talks them out of the bust but that broke the bubble. They moved the event to Vegas where the gambling would then be protected as it was legal there. It continued until the early 70's called the stardust open. To Michaels defense, he did finally over come a lot of his choking and actually won the straight leg out there. So there is the rest of the story. If you don't believe me, then Ask Ray Martin, he will tell you the same thing.
 
yaffabernstein said:
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Well Mr. Lee, that is totally wrong, sit down for a little history lesson and learn something here. Fast Larry broke the world's fast rack run of break and run 15 and out in 33.95 sec, beating the world record that stood for 8 years by a full 4 seconds on a 9' table. Pearson comes along and goes a second under him but on a 7' table, the shorter the table, the faster you can run around it and the easier the pots are. There are two world records there, fl on his 9' table, the better and harder run, and Daves on the bar box 7' easier table. It is only fair to seperate the two.

It should have been the same back then giving willie the high run on the 8 and Michael the high run on the 9. So why did they not do that?
Michael who, a total nobody. He was no star and considered a joke. He was the greatest player and ball runner of all time. Ray Martin, 3 times world champion played in his same room and told me many times he would be on a run, ray would go out to dinner, come back 2 or 3 hrs later and he would still be on the same run. Ray forgot how many times he saw the guy run over 400/.

When the poor guy would go into competition he would lock up so badly under the lights scores would be 150 to 1 or 2. They guy would fold up faster than a kmart $3 blue light special card table. Ham and eggers would beat on this guy like he was their rented mule. So nobody running pool wanted to see this guy become any thing and above all take away the games leading star's most cherished record. To them, the bum did not deserve it even though he did it.

The same thing happened to FL when he set the worlds first 10, then 11 and 12 rail bank. He as a nobody, a pool player and that record was reserved for Hoppe, or a billiard star and they all tried to rob him of his achievement. He fought back and held on to it, Michael just let it go.

Mosconi makes his run in 54, 3 years later the game is dead and over. But at the time of his run Brunswick ruled and ran the game. They had 12 great stars that toured the country and they made them stars. During this period they lost all of the greatest stars all overnight. Hoppe died, Greenleaf was banned from the game for being a drunk and heroin addict and an embarassment in public, he then died. Mosoni in 57 would be banned from the game for punching out a ref, then his brain blew up from too much speed and he was crippled, recovered but his game was then always 25% below his former AAA game nobody could touch.

Ike is in office, a new invention TV comes along and nobody wamt to go play pool, they all want to set home and watch uncle miltie and the new invention called TV. Most take up golf and drop pool. Over night all the legendary rooms close as most do also around the country. The game totally collapses and in 57 the BCA closes its door and throws 80 years of priceless history into the dumpster and walks off. There would not be another BCA or tourney, the usopen unti 1966, a full decade later.

Ray in his book states he made the run. In my files I have the signatures of 50 people who saw it, swore to it in writing giving their names and addresses attesting to the feat. As many saw him make his run as saw Willie do his on his 8' table with bucket 5 l/2" pockets which Gerni verified as he was on that table right after the run in 1954 at the East High billiards club in Springfield, Ohio. Mikes run happened at the Logan billiard academy in Brooklyn, NY on February 2, 1960 on a 4l/2x9' table. It was a pre=scheduled match attended by a standing room only audience.
So when Willie did his run there was a governing body to endorse it. When Eufemia did his in 1960 there was nobody to endorse it and no pool coverage which is why is fell under the covers and simply vanished to be soon forgotten.

When the BCA came back in 66 and Brunswick took back over control trying to then run it as bowling and pool, putting pool in all the bowling alleys they must have helped hide and kill the story to protect their main star Mosconi. Willie recovered and was then just doing shows and exhititons as was Caras and Crane and he did know about the eufemia record and tried to cap it hard and long. The powers to be figured to squelch his record until Willie topped it and it was a mute point. Every day Willie would put on a show, run 10 trick shots and then play 3 local hacks, giving him 3 chances to put down a long run. You were guaranteed to see him run a centrury, sometimes 200. He was always on a brand new bruswick with brand new cloth, his personal set of centinneals and bucket pockets. The local dealer set up the table to be perfect or Willie had a cow.

The best Willie was able to run in practice was 479, he never got there. Soon he got old and lost his game. He was lucky then to run barely 200 now and then by the mid 60's. There are strong rumors 3 other people ran 600 as well, Parker and Cranfield. With no tourneys, no BCA the hustlers took over the game and called it a jamboree where the top 100 came to Little Egypt, Johnson City, Ill and played each other for a month until one guy had all the loot. Of the old great tin cup players, only Crane came in.

In 61 the Jansco brothers only had 12 guys show, in 62 it was better and in 63 the word was out it was wide open down there and the event and joint was packed. It was the greatest pool seen during the 2nd half of the 20th century. Nothing since then has came close to it. To win you have to win 2 out of 3 tourneys, one hole, straight and 9 ball. The real tourney was not in the pits where whimpy and Boston Shorty and Champage Eddy Kelly stared, it was the 2 tables in the back room where the real pool was played for cash. Fatty was taking out Forence, Omaha Fat, Martin Kiaman was taking out every one who wanted to play one handed jack up.

Later in the 60's Jim Mckay and the wild world of sports covered the event on live TV and the BCA came back in 66. Pool was saved by the hustlers and it went back on a rool with new rooms opening up in the surburbs. All the old downtown legendary rooms were now just a memory with only Chris's surviving. Then the feds walk and and bust the joint and arrest the entire crew. Fatty talks them out of the bust but that broke the bubble. They moved the event to Vegas where the gambling would then be protected as it was legal there. It continued until the early 70's called the stardust open. To Michaels defense, he did finally over come a lot of his choking and actually won the straight leg out there. So there is the rest of the story. If you don't believe me, then Ask Ray Martin, he will tell you the same thing.

Fast Larry back again lol! :rolleyes:
 
If you know them, would you please post the names of the other Brunswick stars. The nine others besides Mosconi, Crane, and Caras. They never really receive the credit they surely deserve, Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
Wayne Agnew
 
wagnew said:
If you know them, would you please post the names of the other Brunswick stars. The nine others besides Mosconi, Crane, and Caras. They never really receive the credit they surely deserve, Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
Wayne Agnew

Willie Hoppe, Ralph Greenleaf, Welker Cochran, Frank Taberski, Charlie Peterson, Jake Shaefer Jr.
 
Wow, that is very interesting. I have heard about that Fast Larry guy. I heard he was banned from more forums on the net than Archer has ran 9-ball racks.

I know he is banned from this one.

Mike


yaffabernstein said:
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Well Mr. Lee, that is totally wrong, sit down for a little history lesson and learn something here. Fast Larry broke the world's fast rack run of break and run 15 and out in 33.95 sec, beating the world record that stood for 8 years by a full 4 seconds on a 9' table.
 
Larry,
Your like a STD that won't go away.

Mike,
Thx for the "Q-tip" & penicillin. Left untreated this could have hurt.

Nick

yaffabernstein said:
Bob Byrne once wrote fl had more balls than a snooker table.
 
I watchedand racked balls for Tommy Parker in the 70's at the Velvet Rail in Cleveland, the story was he run 350 left the break shot and had abite to eat. When he resumed play he ran another 300 for a total of 650 I JUST know he ran a ton of balls everyday like Cranfield. Someone like Mark Maryo his protege could tell mor accurate stories about this unknown straight pool legend.
 
> I read in a P+B article that a lawyer was present and drew up the document,otherwise the high run would have been 309 unfinished by Irving Crane on a 5x10. There are also stories that Eufemia's run didn't have a single witness that watched the whole thing. Didn't Cranfield supposedly run a 768 one time? Tommy D.
 
I have now experienced Fast Larry first hand on AZ. I think I need a shower...
 
Icon of Sin said:
I have now experienced Fast Larry first hand on AZ. I think I need a shower...

He was well behaved, perhaps thinking he would get another shot.

He sure has a wealth of info and he doesnt mind typing volumes. If he would just be as good as he was in this reincarnation, I'd be happy to have him back.

I know some of his info is suspect and his opinions are stated as fact but still he impressed me a bit this go round.
 
I agree

Nostroke said:
He was well behaved, perhaps thinking he would get another shot.

He sure has a wealth of info and he doesnt mind typing volumes. If he would just be as good as he was in this reincarnation, I'd be happy to have him back.

I know some of his info is suspect and his opinions are stated as fact but still he impressed me a bit this go round.
The only thing in his post that seems really unlikely to me was his statement that Mosconi's brain "blew up" from taking too much speed. Otherwise, it agreed with what I know about those events.
 
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