Why Pivot?

[SpiderWebComm]

Are you saying you don't fidget? There have been eye witness testimonials on here after all

He says he doesn't fidget? Actually he said he moves his head back and forth like a LIZARD!! ROFTLMFAO!! He should be OK with fidgeting, but to admit looking like a friggin' LIZARD?!!

THIS IS THE POST HE MADE ABOUT WHAT HE SEES AND DOES:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
From: Patrick Johnson <REMOV...@21stcentury.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:32:45 -0500
Local: Tues, Sep 12 2000 3:32 pm

We've talked about this a few times. I prefer to sight down the
contact point-to-contact point line, but that puts my head in
different positions over the stick depending on the shot and can be
physically difficult for cue ball contact points "outside" the stick,
so I adjust it for comfort and consistency. I also like to move my
head back and forth to sight down more than one of the available
lines, including cue ball path, just for cross reference (I might look
a little like a lizard doing this). I like to know that my stick is
pointing where I want it to, but "sight down the stick" doesn't work
by itself for me.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

 

[Allen Brown]

Are you talking about “pivoting” AFTER contact with the cue ball? As in after the cue ball makes contact with the tip? To help you finish your stoke?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Are you talking about “pivoting” AFTER contact with the cue ball? As in after the cue ball makes contact with the tip? To help you finish your stoke?

No, pivoting as part of aiming. But I'm afraid the thread is off the rails already.

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

No, pivoting as part of aiming. But I'm afraid the thread is off the rails already.

pj
chgo

Bring it back in Mr. Wizard. I posted a bunch of videos showing pivots. You've had nothing to say. Only the usual wise guy stuff you've always done.

Talk about the videos.

 

[BC21]

Exactly the problem I see!

Which pro does this, gets down into the stance then moves their stick left and right like they are tasting the wind of the shot--on shots without english?

I've seen all kinds of examples of swerve strokes to accomplish massive spin--from pros--but can't think of a pro who gets down on Line X then pivots to Line Y before stroking.

I am in no way justifying last second pivots or speaking on behalf of CTE users, but I do know that Pro1 doesn't involve a standard type of cue pivot. I believe it's more of visualizing the line where the pivoted cue would end up being if you did a manual pivot, then you simply sweep the cue into that line, placing your bridge hand right or left of the perception line as you bring the cue into that final ccb.

 

[lfigueroa]

I think that many players (the huge honking majority of them) pivot solely to get into shooting position, with nary a thought about aiming.

It’s a function of how they stand at the table before they begin their PSR. In my case, I just naturally stand square to the shot, with my cue pointing off to the left, and then naturally swing (pivot) it to the right. It has absolutely nothing to do with aiming.

One udder thing that I have learned is that it helps me to bring the cue just left of the CB, as opposed to centering it on the CB, at the conclusion of the swing/pivot. YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Assuming some of you have 20/20 vison without one eye being dominate.

How do you approach a shot without pivoting or rotating to get inline?

If you are standing perpendicular to the target line, your body has to move out of the way in order to make room for you to stroke the ball, how could that be accomplished without some sort of pivot or rotation?

There are several steps to aim, one rubric: 1) approach the line from perpendicular/chin on line 2) step into the shot/get closer to the table with the shooting side foot on the line or near it 3) down and in with arm naturally falling onto the line.

 

[cookie man]

Testimonials? lol That's a claim John Barton made about a match he and I had 20+ years ago (he lost, by the way). He said it to try to discredit comments about your aiming system - because he had no real responses either. Birds of a feather.

pj
chgo

Seems everyone beats John lol

 

[cookie man]

He says he doesn't fidget? Actually he said he moves his head back and forth like a LIZARD!! ROFTLMFAO!! He should be OK with fidgeting, but to admit looking like a friggin' LIZARD?!!

THIS IS THE POST HE MADE ABOUT WHAT HE SEES AND DOES:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
From: Patrick Johnson <REMOV...@21stcentury.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:32:45 -0500
Local: Tues, Sep 12 2000 3:32 pm

We've talked about this a few times. I prefer to sight down the
contact point-to-contact point line, but that puts my head in
different positions over the stick depending on the shot and can be
physically difficult for cue ball contact points "outside" the stick,
so I adjust it for comfort and consistency. I also like to move my
head back and forth to sight down more than one of the available
lines, including cue ball path, just for cross reference (I might look
a little like a lizard doing this). I like to know that my stick is
pointing where I want it to, but "sight down the stick" doesn't work
by itself for me.

Pat Johnson
Chicago

This description sounds pretty similar to what i would envision fidgeting to be. And both seem more in line to the description in the OP.
Totally different then pivot aiming as that is pivoting from one objective point to another objective point. No guessing or feel involved. No stopping when it looks right. Just objective points to use.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

This description sounds pretty similar to what i would envision fidgeting to be. And both seem more in line to the description in the OP.
Totally different then pivot aiming as that is pivoting from one objective point to another objective point. No guessing or feel involved. No stopping when it looks right. Just objective points to use.

AMEN! (can you tell I'm getting religion?)

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...pivot aiming ... Is pivoting from one objective point to another objective point. No guessing or feel involved. No stopping when it looks right. Just objective points to use.

__________
View attachment 37178

 

[JoeyInCali]

These juvenile memes and emojis really need to stop.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

I am in no way justifying last second pivots or speaking on behalf of CTE users, but I do know that Pro1 doesn't involve a standard type of cue pivot. I believe it's more of visualizing the line where the pivoted cue would end up being if you did a manual pivot, then you simply sweep the cue into that line, placing your bridge hand right or left of the perception line as you bring the cue into that final ccb.

Which is sound and fine IMHO. You can see certain pros who walk around to the line and think "how are they sighting that shot?" when they are tackling it from the side and bringing their head in from the side, not straight down and in.

 

[BC21]

Which is sound and fine IMHO. You can see certain pros who walk around to the line and think "how are they sighting that shot?" when they are tackling it from the side and bringing their head in from the side, not straight down and in.

Yeah, it's rare to see any pool player not sweep their cue into the shot. Regardless of skill level, it's a natural movement for right handers to sweep their cue in from left to right across their body, and left handers to sweep the other way. Unlike Pro1, this motion isn't related to a pivot or a specific, predefined, offset bridge placement.

The cue is nearly 5ft long and must be held to one side of the body or the other while stroking a shot. So sweeping it around to the stroke/aim line is the most natural motion used to get it into position. Locally, I think I've seen one player that sort of brings his cue straight down from in front of his face, rather than sweeping it in from the side. He has coordination problems, a result of getting shot in the neck or back during Desert Storm. He plays decent but uses some very unnatural, robotic type movements.

 

[cookie man]

Yeah, it's rare to see any pool player not sweep their cue into the shot. Regardless of skill level, it's a natural movement for right handers to sweep their cue in from left to right across their body, and left handers to sweep the other way. Unlike Pro1, this motion isn't related to a pivot or a specific, predefined, offset bridge placement.

The cue is nearly 5ft long and must be held to one side of the body or the other while stroking a shot. So sweeping it around to the stroke/aim line is the most natural motion used to get it into position. Locally, I think I've seen one player that sort of brings his cue straight down from in front of his face, rather than sweeping it in from the side. He has coordination problems, a result of getting shot in the neck or back during Desert Storm. He plays decent but uses some very unnatural, robotic type movements.

On a serious note i'd like to see some video of the sweeping you are talking about. Just to see if we have the same understanding of sweeping. I don't think sweeping is all that common

 

[BC21]

On a serious note i'd like to see some video of the sweeping you are talking about. Just to see if we have the same understanding of sweeping. I don't think sweeping is all that common

I'm sure we're talking about two different things. The OP was referring to final pivots as part of aiming, and I was making the point that a Pro1 sweep, which is sort of a disguised pivot, is not the same as a player simply sweeping the cue from left to right into the shot. You are talking about Pro1 sweeps, where you visualize the offset and exact placement of the bridge hand, and then smoothly sweep into that placement while bringing the cue tip to ccb. I am talking about the natural motion of bringing the cue stick across the front of the body into the the shot line.

Here's the sweep you're talking about.....https://youtu.be/2KwI_62Npos?t=390s


Here's the sweeping motion I'm talking about.....https://youtu.be/A-WkRmCeJLo

 

[cookie man]

I'm sure we're talking about two different things. The OP was referring to final pivots as part of aiming, and I was making the point that a Pro1 sweep, which is sort of a disguised pivot, is not the same as a player simply sweeping the cue from left to right into the shot. You are talking about Pro1 sweeps, where you visualize the offset and exact placement of the bridge hand, and then smoothly sweep into that placement while bringing the cue tip to ccb. I am talking about the natural motion of bringing the cue stick across the front of the body into the the shot line.

Here's the sweep you're talking about.....https://youtu.be/2KwI_62Npos?t=390s


Here's the sweeping motion I'm talking about.....https://youtu.be/A-WkRmCeJLo

Didn't have anything in particular in mind, just curious of your opinion of a sweep.

 

[LAMas]

For me, the mechanical pivot from CTE to achieve the various cut angles on the OB can be useful if one can remember the associated tip offsets pre-pivot.


If one has good memory recall of the visuals during this process, then one can cut to the chase and set up the shot directly. A sweep can be used to effect this for some.


Be well

 

[JMS]

I don’t understand why the same group of people that discredit CTE through the years keep on making posts regarding CTE. You guys keep on asked the same damn questions year after year. If I was Stan I wouldn’t post here anymore either. I learned CTE from Hal Houle and 90/90 from Ron Vitello. I feel lucky that they shared their knowledge with me. I have a copy of the pro/one video from Stan. Glad I got it, it has a lot of great material in it.

When I first started with the systems I was only a C player.. I thought the systems didn’t work because I wasn’t making as many balls as I hoped.
After I worked on my stroke where it’s straight and repeatable I revisited the systems and was shocked at how accurate I was pocketing balls....I like the visual aspect of the system because it’s part of my present routine. Do the same thing every time=consistency.

I think a lot of people that try the systems that don’t have a good stroke bash it since they don’t possess strong fundamentals to begin with...

 

[Dan White]

I don’t understand why the same group of people that discredit CTE through the years keep on making posts regarding CTE. You guys keep on asked the same damn questions year after year. If I was Stan I wouldn’t post here anymore either. I learned CTE from Hal Houle and 90/90 from Ron Vitello. I feel lucky that they shared their knowledge with me. I have a copy of the pro/one video from Stan. Glad I got it, it has a lot of great material in it.

When I first started with the systems I was only a C player.. I thought the systems didn’t work because I wasn’t making as many balls as I hoped.
After I worked on my stroke where it’s straight and repeatable I revisited the systems and was shocked at how accurate I was pocketing balls....I like the visual aspect of the system because it’s part of my present routine. Do the same thing every time=consistency.

I think a lot of people that try the systems that don’t have a good stroke bash it since they don’t possess strong fundamentals to begin with...

So the better your stroke got the better you played? Sounds about right!

Moderators don't want any more arguments about CTE. So if you like it then shut up and use it. If you don't, then shut up and don't use it. Problem solved.