World 10 Ball Silence
- Thread starter pro9dg
- Start date
This has gone on long enough.
I am very disappointed that we haven't heard from the WPA.
I know that they aren't supposed to interfere in internal affairs of their members but there are clauses in their constitution which would allow this.
CONSTITUTION
OF
WORLD POOL-BILLIARD ASSOCIATION
2.4 Autonomy
The WPA is organised democratically and refrains from involvement in the
internal affairs of the continental and other organisations within the WPA
membership. Similarly, other organisations will refrain from involvement in the
internal affairs of pool-billiards. Only with just cause as determined by the
Board or by a specific request will the WPA investigate with the intent to cure any problem.
It would seem that if there were an official request, they would be obliged to investigate.
and surely the following article is being contravened...
Article 4. Duties of the Members
Members are obliged to:
iii) Conduct their affairs in order not to harm the reputation of the WPA.
I am very disappointed that we haven't heard from the WPA.
I know that they aren't supposed to interfere in internal affairs of their members but there are clauses in their constitution which would allow this.
CONSTITUTION
OF
WORLD POOL-BILLIARD ASSOCIATION
2.4 Autonomy
The WPA is organised democratically and refrains from involvement in the
internal affairs of the continental and other organisations within the WPA
membership. Similarly, other organisations will refrain from involvement in the
internal affairs of pool-billiards. Only with just cause as determined by the
Board or by a specific request will the WPA investigate with the intent to cure any problem.
It would seem that if there were an official request, they would be obliged to investigate.
and surely the following article is being contravened...
Article 4. Duties of the Members
Members are obliged to:
iii) Conduct their affairs in order not to harm the reputation of the WPA.
RAYA is not a Continental Member but a Privately-owned franchise holder of a WPA event, the World Ten Ball Championship. As such, I wonder what the extent of responsibility the WPA has with regard to the WTBC and its franchisee?Peter@CEP said:
Surely they, RAYA, don't share the same status as Continental Members. Shouldn't WPA be directly responsible since they are the franchisor?
Question: If Greyhound Transport Services, Inc. or even McDonald's grant a company a franchise to operate wouldn't GTSI ultimately be responsible for its franchise holder's shortcoming? Please educate.
I do not know how long this thread is going to last. It does serve as a reminder that how F up the organization of this sport has become.
Does not matter to me whether the players get paid or not at this point.
But the fact that a play would actually have to worry about not getting paid after a tournament is unbelievable! It is crap. Be it the association that ran the tournament or the association affiliated to. All crap!
Can anyone tell me if there is another sport that has the same problem? A world event where players have to be worried about not getting paid. Its not going to help but maybe it will make me feel better for being stupid enough to play this game.
Does not matter to me whether the players get paid or not at this point.
But the fact that a play would actually have to worry about not getting paid after a tournament is unbelievable! It is crap. Be it the association that ran the tournament or the association affiliated to. All crap!
Can anyone tell me if there is another sport that has the same problem? A world event where players have to be worried about not getting paid. Its not going to help but maybe it will make me feel better for being stupid enough to play this game.
Peter@CEP said:
Hi Peter. I had cited this same excerpt from the WPA constitution in this forum way before the WTBC and identified it as a fine print that frees the members of the WPC from responsibility.
All that WPC is there for is to make sure that the sanction fees are paid... and run a ranking and calendaring program.
WPC has immunity from whatever action that Ian Andersen takes... and for that matter from actions of any other WPA employee, official, agent or country representative. And this ideology runs down to all the sub organizations and constituents.
Neat! That leaves them all the elbow room for abuse.
Ian does not even have to say anything because there is nothing in the WPA constitution that makes him accountable. It is like the fine print of the catholic church "look not on our sins but on the faith of your church." But WPA holds no faith... only apathy from its constituents.
I will repeat this... with the way that its constitution is set up, the WPA is a breeding ground for abusive employees, officials, agents and representatives who have no accountability in the actions that they deem doing so.
Ian Anderson's oblivion to his guarantee is one glaring example of this case in point.
Last edited:
Peter@CEP said:
Following my little meeting in Manila, Ian Anderson handed me his card and told me to contact him next time I had a question about anything concerning the WPA. I took him at his word. A few days ago, I sent him an e-mail and asked him what the WPA was doing about this problem with pay outs from the WTBC. He has yet to answer me.
In reading the above excerpt from the constitution of the WPA, it would appear that this is a glaring case of "just cause" for the WPA to intervene and take action of some kind. The WPA worked hand in hand with Raya in producing and directing this event. It could almost be concluded that it was a joint effort. At this point in time, they cannot miraculously separate themselves from this evolving problem.
The silence of the WPA now is deafening. Where are they now when the players so desperately need them? Why do we not hear anything from their offices? They should be in the forefront demanding action by Raya and prompt payment of overdue prize moneys. And Ian, wherever you are, I would be saying this to your face if I could.
sputnik said:
You're making a big assumption there aren't you? How do you know whether Anderson is "oblivious" to this? How do you know for example he isn't in fact racked with regret over what he said and not able to sleep with worry over it? How do you know for example he isn't right now badgering Raya to pay up, but doing it in private as he thinks that is the way to get the best results? How do you know for example he wasn't simply taken in by a lot of apparently genuine fancy talk and feels embarassed to admit it? How do you know for example that he isn't preparing to make a statement on this whole issue from the WPA angle as soon as it becomes clear that the balance of money owing will or will not be paid and as soon as he is sure such a statement would not seriously hamper the prospects for payment?
We've already had other posters in these forums virtually accusing Anderson of pocketing money personally in return for WPA tacit endorsement of the event. We've also had at least one poster come within a fingernail's width of accusing AZB ownership and others of similar personal financial interests swaying their opinion. You and those posters better be praying that payment of all prize money doesn't materialise otherwise you're quite possibly going to see quite a few words come back to haunt you.
In pursuit of what may well be a just and commendable goal of seeing a better way forward for Phiilipines Pool the swinging haymakers thrown by your camp may at times occasionally be landing on the chins of innocent people. Time will tell. Loosen the blinkers a bit, there is a definite possibility that they are impairing your vision a little.
Last edited:
Legitimate payments(Prize Money) from a legitimate reason(placing in a tournament) from a (legitimate?) event. Doesn't legitimacy of an event depend on getting the nod from the host country through issuance of proper permits from the proper agency? Last I heard is that the permit-issuer for play-for-pay events here in the Philippines, GAB, was getting its authority contested by BSCP/RAYA. Something that is still ongoing but doesn't mean that just because its authority is being questioned its function ceases.JB Cases said:
So what's the basis of the legitimacy of the WTBC?
Last edited:
dynamite said:
I am sure that Mr Makabenta could make an eloquent case for the continuing delay in payments. The players are accustomed to being shafted and reference to some kind of payment plan would lubricate this process. They are adults and a bit of honesty would go a long way. This thread opened with ....an eerie silence and nearly 19,000 hits and 500+ responses later I can only hear the sound of one hand clapping.
This business is certainly tarnishing the credibility of the WPA.
memikey said:
But all this should have been done weeks ago.
memikey said:
That is totally unfair and maligns decent people.
jay helfert said:
Come on let's have some official reaction -from anyone at the WPA
Last edited:
pro9dg said:
Totally agree.
pro9dg said:
Totally agree....but while you happily reproduced the questions I posted you missed out the bit where I put forward one possible reason WHY it hasn't been done. Those questions are meaningless outside the context of the possible reasons why.
por9dg said:
It's neither unfair nor inaccurate. However there is definitely no intention on my part to malign anyone, innocent or otherwise. Here is an example of what I'm talking about....
bandido said:
The above is logical, almost certainly true and rightly points out a position taken by Andersen in his capacity as WPA Chairman....no problem.
However, this for example.....
sputnik said:
......to an objective observer clearly crosses the line into accusations of personal acceptance of inducements outwith his WPA role and whilst the passion is understood there's surely no need to go down that road unless there's very good evidence of it.
I haven't time to search for the very thinly veiled inference to AZB management's attitude being possibly swayed by inducement but I can assure you it's there. In fact I was surprised Mike didn't react to it.
Hope you understand better what was meant now.
pro9dg said:
Agree with you again......and if there are reasons connected with not wanting to potentially hamper payments by speaking out at this time at least they could come out and say "look, there's a problem, we understand that, we accept our role in it and we're working on it and will revert by X date"
payment
yen told me my money will be wired friday in full and should be sitting in my bank by monday
also he said all money will be paid by end of next week to all the players
and they continue to plan future tournaments
its just a shame whats happening in the philippines with the big split in governing bodies and players its not good for the game and definatly not good for the future unless this is resolved..
dynamite
yen told me my money will be wired friday in full and should be sitting in my bank by monday
also he said all money will be paid by end of next week to all the players
and they continue to plan future tournaments
its just a shame whats happening in the philippines with the big split in governing bodies and players its not good for the game and definatly not good for the future unless this is resolved..
dynamite
dynamite said:
Awesome DAZ!!! Take some of it and get a good relaxing massage to get you prepped for upcoming events. Shame about the Mosconi Cup - I guess it's only fair that Matchroom not give you credit for your brilliant performance in a competing event to their WPC. Bummer but there is next year where I am sure that your accomplishments from now til then will be overwhelming and make you a shoo in.
I am looking forward to seeing more of your game on TV - you play a really good game and it's a pleasure to watch. And also, thank you for taking the time to interact with your fans here.
memikey said:
Okay. Let's say Anderson is innocent because he his not oblivious to all these reactions to the delayed payment as he regrets, pushes for payment in the background, etc. Let's say that he is preparing a statement. Let's also say that he, as the WPA head, does not cast doubt in his motives for that blind loyalty official statement that the WTB was in good order without even investigating where smoke was coming from or why there was smoke.
Do you really want to just keep on assuming things and give people the benefit of the doubt irregardless of what unfolds and transpires before your eyes?
It is Ian's own doing that there is a reaction to his silence when we all know that it did not take time in coming out with previous official statements. Same with Makabenta. Their silence does invites all the allegations, analysis, predictions and mistrust. Their silence bears no responsibility because the cookie jar was left open and what landed on their chins are cookie crumbs.
This thread about their silence is one of the most read and reacted threads here, and they had all the time to address the issue and repair the leak in the roof. Instead, they chose to flip out umbrellas under their roofs.
The bottom line here is that if "leaders" had done people wrong with unfounded (or unfunded) guarantees, they should have the balls to stand up and apologize for it. Perhaps they are too ashamed but perhaps too, they want to hold on to something, and admitting in apology will make them lose their "leadership" and ambitions. Either that or make their silence lose their "leadership". The choice is theirs.
Maybe the WPA will not do anything since the WTB is primarily a RAYA responsibility. However WPA can act on something if something formal (from the concerned and involved parties) is brought to their office. The best I've seen so far is Jay's email inquiry to Ian.
Raya did communicate with Darren, and I assume they did as well to other players. I don't think Raya will react to the forum.
I do think also that WPA will address concerns directed to them by the players and other parties/participants of the WTB.
Process wise, IMO, all complaints must be formally filed with RAYA first. Then it can be brought to the attention of the WPA if nothing is settled on that level.
The silence (thread topic) refers to the "uncharacteristic" silence of RAYA (?) regarding payouts which was only done recently. So their silence regarding the pay-outs have already been addressed (though it was late).
Is this silence also referring to their confirmation that all players have been paid? Is it standard for all organizers to make an announcement that all people involved are paid? I don't know. However, If this is the case I don't think that they respond to it in this thread. If ever, they will probably do it in the form of another announcement.
Raya did communicate with Darren, and I assume they did as well to other players. I don't think Raya will react to the forum.
I do think also that WPA will address concerns directed to them by the players and other parties/participants of the WTB.
Process wise, IMO, all complaints must be formally filed with RAYA first. Then it can be brought to the attention of the WPA if nothing is settled on that level.
The silence (thread topic) refers to the "uncharacteristic" silence of RAYA (?) regarding payouts which was only done recently. So their silence regarding the pay-outs have already been addressed (though it was late).
Is this silence also referring to their confirmation that all players have been paid? Is it standard for all organizers to make an announcement that all people involved are paid? I don't know. However, If this is the case I don't think that they respond to it in this thread. If ever, they will probably do it in the form of another announcement.