World 14.1 Player List

Roy Steffensen

not banned
Silver Member
Just talked to Jasmin Ouschan and she confirmed that she will not compete in this year's event, since it is not a WPA sanctioned World Championship.

I believe a lot of the Europeans feel the same way. Now it is a long flight to play in a tournament with low pricemoney, and with a title that can be used for "nothing".

For example, Vegar Kristiansen from Norway could applied for sponsorship from the National Olympic Commitee if he got a medal in this Championship, but since it is not sanctioned by the WPA the Norwegian Olympic Commitee won't reckognize the tournament as a real Championship. If they did, and he for example won, he could perhaps get $ 20,000 in sponsorship next year. Then it would be worth the trip, just to give it a try.

I've checked around today and my understanding is that the reason this tournament is not sanctioned is not because of the sanction fee, like Jay stated, but because Dragon failed to meet the criterias given by WPA on other areas.

WPA is trying to build our sport and present it in a respectable way for sponsors, fans and media, and I believe one of the criterias is that the event should be played in a hotel or a proper venue. This year, it is for example played in a poolhall, compared to hotels the last three years.

I could be wrong about what I wrote above, but I doubt it.

If it is also true that the pricemoney has dropped, I believe more Europeans will drop out of this event, but top players such as Mika and Thorsten will probably still play since they are part of Dragon.

Anyone care to give me odds? I'll take the rest of the Europeans vs the field in this tournament.

Will probably be a great show anyway, and if I am not mistaken it will be published live on PPV. Correct?
 
Last edited:

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Just talked to Jasmin Ouschan and she confirmed that she will not compete in this year's event, since it is not a WPA sanctioned World Championship. ...
That makes me sad. I was really looking forward to seeing her play again.

Most here are not aware of what sanctioning involves. I sure wasn't until a few minutes ago. Here are the benefits of the sanctioning. A WC is a Category A event. For other details see http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=sanction

1. The date will be reserved and must be respected by the WPA members.
2. (Category A) A WPA representative is present. He arrives 2 days before
the event and leaves 1 day after the event (the accommodation costs will
be paid by the organiser). His main task is to support the organisation and
the participants.
3. The WPA sport director is at the venue for technical support.
4. The event information is distributed by the WPA and its members.
5. The use of the WPA logo for publicity purposes is allowed.
6. Points are awarded for the world ranking.
7. The WPA makes the medals available. (Category A)
8. For Category A events only: if requested, referees can be provided. The
costs will be divided between three partners: the organiser, the WPA and
the continental federation which is supplying the referee(s).​
If you look at the last line, and figure out how much it would have cost the WPA (and BCA) to help provide referees, it's possible that financially the tournament would have been a net loss to the WPA. That's assuming that tournament would have had referees, but they're really important for 14.1 and especially a World Championship.
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
What is the WPA's main impact on US pool? I'm guessing there is one, though I haven't a clue what it is.

- Steve
 

Roy Steffensen

not banned
Silver Member
That makes me sad. I was really looking forward to seeing her play again.

I agree with you, it really is sad... I hoped to be able to see her still compete and beat the best of the best 14-1 players in the world...

But it is a grueling schedule for the Europeans, and I understand their choice of not entering.

The Eurotour in Austria ends the day before the Predator 14-1 Championship, and the World Cup of Pool starts a day after it ends, with a 12 hours time-difference. Combined with the event not being sanctioned and almost 50 % less price money compared to previous years, I won't blame any of the players dropping out.

Too bad, really, and I doubt that the sponsors of this event would be willing to put in money if they knew this would be the outcome...
 

dmgwalsh

Straight Pool Fanatic
Silver Member
Just talked to Jasmin Ouschan and she confirmed that she will not compete in this year's event, since it is not a WPA sanctioned World Championship.

I believe a lot of the Europeans feel the same way. Now it is a long flight to play in a tournament with low pricemoney, and with a title that can be used for "nothing".

For example, Vegar Kristiansen from Norway could applied for sponsorship from the National Olympic Commitee if he got a medal in this Championship, but since it is not sanctioned by the WPA the Norwegian Olympic Commitee won't reckognize the tournament as a real Championship. If they did, and he for example won, he could perhaps get $ 20,000 in sponsorship next year. Then it would be worth the trip, just to give it a try.

I've checked around today and my understanding is that the reason this tournament is not sanctioned is not because of the sanction fee, like Jay stated, but because Dragon failed to meet the criterias given by WPA on other areas.

WPA is trying to build our sport and present it in a respectable way for sponsors, fans and media, and I believe one of the criterias is that the event should be played in a hotel or a proper venue. This year, it is for example played in a poolhall, compared to hotels the last three years.

I could be wrong about what I wrote above, but I doubt it.

If it is also true that the pricemoney has dropped, I believe more Europeans will drop out of this event, but top players such as Mika and Thorsten will probably still play since they are part of Dragon.

Anyone care to give me odds? I'll take the rest of the Europeans vs the field in this tournament.

Will probably be a great show anyway, and if I am not mistaken it will be published live on PPV. Correct?

I was looking forward to going out there and watching some good 14.1, but with players dropping like flies, I just don't know.
 

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
14.1

Nothing against Max or anything, by any means, but what regional or major tournaments has Max won? I know he has been a 'contender' several times, but don't remember him winning any.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was looking forward to going out there and watching some good 14.1, but with players dropping like flies, I just don't know.
There will still be great players there and some great matches. If things are dull, you, me and Lou can start some ring nine ball. Comet is a very nice room, just stay away from the Italian restaurant across the street.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There will still be great players there and some great matches. If things are dull, you, me and Lou can start some ring nine ball. Comet is a very nice room, just stay away from the Italian restaurant across the street.

What's wrong with the Italian restaurant across the street?
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There will still be great players there and some great matches. If things are dull, you, me and Lou can start some ring nine ball. Comet is a very nice room, just stay away from the Italian restaurant across the street.

There is no Italian restaurant across the street I dont think. There is a portuguese place on the same side of the street. Some people love it. Not sure if that is the one you are talking about though.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no Italian restaurant across the street I dont think. There is a portuguese place on the same side of the street. Some people love it. Not sure if that is the one you are talking about though.

Yeah there is. You leave Comet, make a left, walk past the parking lot, cross the street. I've been there once.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
David...If I understand it correctly, the WPA sanction fee is only based on the added money, which is this case is $20K. That would make the sanction fee only $1000...probably too small for this to be the reason the sanctioning was pulled. It has to be some other reason. Someone suggested to me, that it could be related to missing organization deadlines, that the WPA is strict on. Whatever the reason, it's a shame, and it's the players who are hurt the most by this. That said, the players are aware of this, and have chosen to come compete anyway...like the true warriors they are! :thumbup:

GO MAX!:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott, you may well be correct. But I do think the fee is now 7.5% and not 5%. In the case of a guaranteed purse, like say $100,000, the fee would still be at least $5,000 and maybe $7,500. In the 2006 and 2007 World Pool Championships in Manila, the purses were $400,000 guaranteed. At that time the sanction fee was only 5%. That's still 20K. At two recent events I attended in Manila that were both sanctioned by the WPA the sanction fee was still 5% of the total purses (80K and 75K) if my memory serves me correctly.

Any way you cut it the sanction fees are not cheap. I know the WPA needs this money to pay their operating and travel expenses. I do not think they are funded any other way. Unless member organizations pay dues.
 

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
I've nvr tried the Italian place, but they opened a BBQ take out joint right next door to Comet.


Eric >Mmm, BBQ
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
That makes me sad. I was really looking forward to seeing her play again.

Most here are not aware of what sanctioning involves. I sure wasn't until a few minutes ago. Here are the benefits of the sanctioning. A WC is a Category A event. For other details see http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=sanction

1. The date will be reserved and must be respected by the WPA members.
2. (Category A) A WPA representative is present. He arrives 2 days before
the event and leaves 1 day after the event (the accommodation costs will
be paid by the organiser). His main task is to support the organisation and
the participants.
3. The WPA sport director is at the venue for technical support.
4. The event information is distributed by the WPA and its members.
5. The use of the WPA logo for publicity purposes is allowed.
6. Points are awarded for the world ranking.
7. The WPA makes the medals available. (Category A)
8. For Category A events only: if requested, referees can be provided. The
costs will be divided between three partners: the organiser, the WPA and
the continental federation which is supplying the referee(s).​
If you look at the last line, and figure out how much it would have cost the WPA (and BCA) to help provide referees, it's possible that financially the tournament would have been a net loss to the WPA. That's assuming that tournament would have had referees, but they're really important for 14.1 and especially a World Championship.

So what are the sanction fees Bob and how are they computed?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So what are the sanction fees Bob and how are they computed?

From the WPA Web site:

IV Sanction fees:
The total cost of sanctioning is 5% of total added money in all categories. There are no fees applied to any entry fee money which is added to the prize fund. The 5% fee is limited to a prize fund up to USD 500,000.

For anyone who is interested in this, see http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=sanction
 

Tbeaux

Angelic Hotdog
Silver Member
I suspect it may not have to do with the sanctioning fee for the Championship.
The qualifiers for a championship are considered as catagory B and are supposed to be sanctioned also I would think. The championship once submitted and approved goes on the calander after approval of the qualifiers and notification to WPA members. This came together last minute right? So there are many possible reasons for not sanctioning this year.....like
1) EPBF championships are now over without having been considered as a qualifier because of late entry (looks like some of the players are attending though).
2) Could there be a conflict between a qualifier and a previously scheduled WPA event?
3) Since DP is handling the qualifiers could sanctioning fees for those be coming up short?

I think it may be pointless speculating or laying blame. Folks should just enjoy the event as is.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There is no Italian restaurant across the street I don't think. There is a Portuguese place on the same side of the street. Some people love it. Not sure if that is the one you are talking about though.

According to Google maps and what I remember it's "Goodfellas Italian Restaurant & Pizza‎" If I had to guess, you're thinking of Tino's which appears to be next to Goodfellas on the map. Thanks for the tip on the Portuguese place.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Scott...Nothing against you, or anything, but what qualifies you to judge Max? FTR, he finished 3rd in this event in 2006. Oh yeah...what regional or major tournaments have YOU won? Answer: ZERO Quit posting crap. Either post something positive, or don't post. :mad:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Nothing against Max or anything, by any means, but what regional or major tournaments has Max won? I know he has been a 'contender' several times, but don't remember him winning any.
 

Steve Lipsky

On quest for perfect 14.1
Silver Member
The Portuguese place is literally right next door to Comet. You don't even have to leave the parking lot. It's the best thing that's happened to that shopping center since Comet itself.

Nice variety of entrees, huge portions, real silverware, but not too fancy and not too pricey.

- Steve
 

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
WPA sanctioning

After following this thread, I would like to make a few comments. (Sorry for the length) -

Although some may agree with the WPA and others may not, I believe it is within their right to sanction (or not sanction) varoious events as 'World Championships'.

All of the world championships get the players through various rankings or through qualifiers. I also believe their is usually NO entry fee.

For example, in the US, the AZ BCA list is the guideline. The players get 'invited' by their performance in ranked events. In other countries, there are more ranked events - but the concept is pretty much the same.

The ONLY exception (I know of) is the DP 14.1 - which I think this is a problem for the WPA.

Remember all of the discussions about 'inviting Grady' to the first DP 14.1 event? The whole discussion was probably an embarrassment to the WPA. Nobody should be invited by friendship or other criteria. The criteria should be how they have played in ranked events or qualifiers. Players should NOT be 'grabbed' out of the spectator seats to play. Invitation also is a terrible method - since it is very difficult to 'draw the line' somewhere.

I think one of the WPA goals is to standardize selection criteria, and to follow other rules they have in place. I personally do not believe it was about the 'sanctioninng fee that the WPA would charge. I think it WAS about the total amount of funds available for the prize fund.

I 'believe' the minimum added money for world champioonship events such as 8, 9, or 10-ball is $150,000. I 'think' the 14.1 is not anywhere near that much - but $20,000 added PLUS charging an entry fee probably does not meet WPA standards.

I am suprised that this action was taken so late in the game - but there were probably lots of communications that we are not privy to.

I also feel there are other issues with past behavior in reference to other World events. I think all of entrants to DP events (world and other) are done by invitation process - and that just does NOT meet WPA guidelines. I am betting that is the primary reason this sanctioning was withdrawn.

Keep in mind this is my speculation - and I wish everybody could sing from the same sheet of music. I love the fact that 14.1 is having a bit of resurgence. But I also see what the WPA is saying. Just because you call an event a world championship, that does not make it one.

I think if DP were to look back, they would agree that they have been a 'little fast and loose' with the titles of their events. This obviously did not endear them to the powers that be at WPA.

just my thoughts,

Mark Griffin
 
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