World 14.1 Thoughts

corvette1340

corvette1340

www.EpawnMarket.com
Silver Member
Having followed and watched the ppv's all week for the Predator World 14.1 Championships I have a few thoughts. First, like many, I haven't watched a whole lot of world class straight pool. I watched all of the Schmidt/Harriman TAR PPV's and a few other tourneys but was relatively new to it.

A lot of the more well known pros don't often play 14.1 because they've concentrated on 9/10 ball primarily since that is whats played mostly here in the states. I remember talking to Stevie a few years ago about it and he was saying that he hardly ever played and his high run was like 30 something. I believe he ran 85 this week en route to his 13th place finish.

It was great to see the intricate details of the game. It really is an entire different animal. Watching Thorsten and Oliver Ortmann was especially impressive.

Having said that, I don't feel that 14.1 is a great draw for the average viewer. Most hardcore pool fans, like here on AZ, will appreciate the subtle nuances on 14.1. But, the average viewer will find it slow and boring. I know some of the Archer matches lasted way too long. I think a 14.1 tourney every now and then is a good change of pace, but I don't see it as a big money maker in the grand scheme of pool.

I'd like to get others' thoughts on the tourney, which was a very well ran and presented one. I've been critical of Charlie Williams' personal descrepancies but he can put on a very nice tournament. Thoughts?
 
14.1 is a great game to play IMO, but not to watch for the majority of pool players and mainstream bangers. It's just too boring and long to sit through for most. Probably 90% of the shots can be made by a "C" player (I know it's how you get the easy rack runs, but most don't know, it just looks too easy). A race to 100, 150, or 200 can really get boring when one guy is way ahead. If someone is down 120 to 20 in a 200 point game chances are their going to loose. At least in 8, 9, and 10-ball there is a new game every 5-10 minutes for the one that's behind to catch up. Even in these race to 100 games of 9 and 10-ball you see people leaving the PPV because it's boring to watch when someone is far ahead. Also it's very hard to get a bets on 14.1 games. Johnnyt
 
hhmmm

makes sense to me vette.

the ending was great and could not be boring in anyway or to anyone.

stephan cohen's comeback was monumental,and then his thanks to his mentor (danny d)was nice and made me verclempt !
it happened to them too.
 
14.1 is one is one of those games that sounds easy but when you play it, you realize it isn't. I agree with you, Vette - the mainstream pool player isn't going to be interested in 14.1 --> unless they've taken the game up themselves.

I joined a straight pool league last season and enjoyed it somewhat, but this season I am immersed in it because I got a few lessons that really showed me the true enlightenment of the game and why it's so intricate.

In watching the ppv all week, I could recognize who really had experience in the game and who played the shots well AND who made the right decisions. It is obvious there are a lot of great straight pool players out there.

I enjoyed watching it because I am learning the game; otherwise, I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much this week.

The stream was fabulous and Danny/John commentating was the nutz!

As for the races, I was wanting them to be longer to see more shot selections and safeties. :thumbup:

I think a few learning experiences by Dragon Promotions could be implemented next year but I would still watch all week again.
 
if by "average viewer" you mean a non pool playing person then youre right (but then they will find any pool boring). however for folks that play there is only the perception that 14.1 is any more boring than watching any other match. a longish race in 9- or 10-ball prolly takes about as long as a race to 100 in 14.1. even though 9-ball is suppose to be the most exciting game to watch, how is watching a match that is not close anything but boring. i have walked out from watching a match featuring archer v parica b/c at 12am i couldnt take watching the break then 7 safeties on the 1, the 5 more on the 2, then running out with stop shots. i know it was great pool and a wealth of skill and knowledge was being displayed, but man was it boring. so imo 14.1 is just as exciting to watch and certainly demands more skill, knowledge and execution than any other cue sport. kudos to dp for bringing back the game of champions.

brian
 
I dunno.... mainstream pool players love one-pocket and that game is the most boring to watch of them all. So, I dunno. If you want to entertain non-pool players (which is required to bring pool to the masses), 8 or 9 ball is required because that's the only thing people "know" ---- and even that's boring to watch for non-pool fans until the promoters make the events more like the WWE or poker, or something else hyped up. Running pool tournaments like chess tournaments is exactly why everyone is bored with pool...and what's wrong with pool.

The sooner we as pool players realize we're not "golfers" and stop running around tournaments with our hair combed to the side, the sooner someone will take notice and fund our azzes.
 
Johnnyt said:
14.1 is a great game to play IMO, but not to watch for the majority of pool players and mainstream bangers. It's just too boring and long to sit through for most. Probably 90% of the shots can be made by a "C" player (I know it's how you get the easy rack runs, but most don't know, it just looks too easy). A race to 100, 150, or 200 can really get boring when one guy is way ahead. If someone is down 120 to 20 in a 200 point game chances are their going to loose. At least in 8, 9, and 10-ball there is a new game every 5-10 minutes for the one that's behind to catch up. Even in these race to 100 games of 9 and 10-ball you see people leaving the PPV because it's boring to watch when someone is far ahead. Also it's very hard to get a bets on 14.1 games. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

If you think pool is boring to watch, you gotta go watch a professional baseball game. ZZZZZZZZZZZ!

Straight pool has a lot in common with chess which is often played using a chess clock. In chess, both players may have two hours to play 40 moves. It's not uncommon for top-level chess players to spend over an hour thinking through the variations before playing just one move.

Considering how slow a chess game can be, straight pool can be lightning fast by comparison. While pool and chess may have some things in common (like strategy and planning ahead), they are fundamentally different sports and should be treated as such.

Chess may be a small niche sport but I can guarantee that a major tournament will get it's results publicized in the newspapers.

Did this 14.1 tournament get its results publicized anywhere? Did anyone even inform the newspapers about it? It's not too late to get the results publicized and generate some mainstream publicity for our sport.
 
corvette1340 said:
Having followed and watched the ppv's all week for the Predator World 14.1 Championships I have a few thoughts. First, like many, I haven't watched a whole lot of world class straight pool. I watched all of the Schmidt/Harriman TAR PPV's and a few other tourneys but was relatively new to it.

A lot of the more well known pros don't often play 14.1 because they've concentrated on 9/10 ball primarily since that is whats played mostly here in the states. I remember talking to Stevie a few years ago about it and he was saying that he hardly ever played and his high run was like 30 something. I believe he ran 85 this week en route to his 13th place finish.

It was great to see the intricate details of the game. It really is an entire different animal. Watching Thorsten and Oliver Ortmann was especially impressive.

Having said that, I don't feel that 14.1 is a great draw for the average viewer. Most hardcore pool fans, like here on AZ, will appreciate the subtle nuances on 14.1. But, the average viewer will find it slow and boring. I know some of the Archer matches lasted way too long. I think a 14.1 tourney every now and then is a good change of pace, but I don't see it as a big money maker in the grand scheme of pool.

I'd like to get others' thoughts on the tourney, which was a very well ran and presented one. I've been critical of Charlie Williams' personal descrepancies but he can put on a very nice tournament. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for the non-pool playing public, but having grown up on straight pool and watching matches in the old days, I thought yesterday's matches were very exciting and I enjoyed viewing them more than any straight pool I've ever watched.

These players bring excitment to the game with their powerful strokes and superior shotmaking - and pure guts. Honed by their rotation game skills, Ortmann, Mika, and Cohen each played some incredible shots and I enjoyed yesterday's matches more than I can remember.

Playing the game on tighter tables (than the old days) helps. My impression is that today's players don't play the "pure science" patterns of a Mosconi, but their shotmaking compensates for it - and they are actually quite spectacular to watch.

I enjoyed it a lot.

Chris
 
Johnnyt said:
... If someone is down 120 to 20 in a 200 point game chances are their going to loose. ... Johnnyt
Click to expand...

As to "chances are," you're right. But Stephan Cohen was down 145-14 and won the tournament! (And he also won his match the previous night with Tony Robles after being way behind.)
 
AtLarge said:
As to "chances are," you're right. But Stephan Cohen was down 145-14 and won the tournament! (And he also won his match the previous night with Tony Robles after being way behind.)
Click to expand...


You're right it happens at this level a lot more than one level down or lower. Please don't get me wrong...I love the game. It's just my opinion that it's boring to 85% of the pool players and recreational players. I could be totaly wrong, as I hope I am. I would love nothing more than to walk into any pool room and see 5-10 tables playing 14.1. I cut my teeth on that game. Johnnyt
 
Good commentating, like Danny D's and John's, helps a lot in making 14.1 interesting to watch. The shot clock helps a lot too when you have a slow player, e.g., Archer. And safety battles aren't that bad either, as long as the commentators explain it and the players don't take forever to shoot.

Personally, I find 14.1 more interesting to watch than 9 ball because it's simply a more interesting game. Should he shoot the 5 ball next and try get position on the 14 to break the pack, or should he go into the pack now with the 12 ball? Questions like that don't come up in rotation games. First the 1, then the 2, then the 3 .... Boring! Having Danny D explain the choices in real time helps the audience appreciate what they're watching.

For those that didn't see it, I don't remember getting more involved with a sporting event than I did with yesterday's final game between Immonen and Cohen. OK, maybe some of the Chicago Bulls championship games. :smile:
 
The reason 14.1 won't become "mainstream" is because the average player doesn't have the skill to play it.
 
Fan appreciation

I was in Los Angeles, at the Elks building, I watched this guy bump the 6 ball three times getting it in place for a break. It was somebody named, "Lassiter."

Up at the Hollywood American Legion I saw Gene Nagy practice his break shot for almost an hour. Word was, that he was the next Mosconi.

I can't count the number of times I have watched the Crane/Balsis 150 and out match, and many other great matches I have on "VHS and now on DVD." Pool, Billiards, Snooker, all cue sports, I will go anywere to watch it played. No player should be biased against any cue game.

Most of the guys and girls in the pool room where I play would rather bang the balls around, complain about how they miss some shot, but won't take the time to join the few of us watching a quality match on the big screen. "They might just learn something."
And that is with someone like Danny, Grady, Pat Fleming or other excellent commentator explaning the moves.

How can we get them interested? Something such as "Equal Offense" comes to mind, with scores kept In this environment there is no stigma of loosing. As they improve there could be some form of recognization given for improvement. This also could lead to a more accurate method of setting a handicap for other tournaments.

I believe that we are letting too many potentially good players become bored and leave pool for some other activity.

Also it wouldn't hurt if there were special rates for someone PRACTICING ALONE!

One other suggestion, when there is a tournament give all of the spectators the phone number of the of the local news paper sports department, ask them to call and request the results of each days play. It may not work but what does it cost to try.

Something has to be done, or except for a few die-hards, pool will fade away.

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."
 
With snooker being a full rack game, I'm not surprised European players take to 14.1 like a lab to water. Taking a rack apart, coming back from the dead and keeping your opponent in the chair for eternity is something special. It's more rare (in rotation pool) to see a player in a race to 11 match be down 10-1 and win than being down 186 to 20 in 14.1. The crowds interaction is on a steady rise with the player, knowing that who's ever at the table can always "run out" the match. The high a player gets when way down and then coming back to run out the match is special, for his opponent, all he can think when the match is over what mistake was made to cause his/her demise.
One matter that hasn't been mentioned, the amount of mental/physical stamina to run hundreds is very draining, may be the reason Ortman didn't win, he may have peaked too early, I know Jack Nicklaus used to say it's better to peak late in the tournament than in the beginning.
 
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It is difficult to sell 14.1 as a spectator sport - it does get boring on ustream at times also - but attending it on Friday I must say I was not bored. Watching live you really appreciate the intensity of all the matches and you can see that in the players especially when they miss. You miss in 8-9 Ball game over and there is always another game comming up. A miss in 14.1 and that may be it - it doesn't have to be 100+ and out - a 40 - 50 ball run here and there and you are way behind . I have to say I had a had a good time attending it much better than watching on TV.
 
corvette1340 said:
Having followed and watched the ppv's all week for the Predator World 14.1 Championships I have a few thoughts. First, like many, I haven't watched a whole lot of world class straight pool. I watched all of the Schmidt/Harriman TAR PPV's and a few other tourneys but was relatively new to it.

A lot of the more well known pros don't often play 14.1 because they've concentrated on 9/10 ball primarily since that is whats played mostly here in the states. I remember talking to Stevie a few years ago about it and he was saying that he hardly ever played and his high run was like 30 something. I believe he ran 85 this week en route to his 13th place finish.

It was great to see the intricate details of the game. It really is an entire different animal. Watching Thorsten and Oliver Ortmann was especially impressive.

Having said that, I don't feel that 14.1 is a great draw for the average viewer. Most hardcore pool fans, like here on AZ, will appreciate the subtle nuances on 14.1. But, the average viewer will find it slow and boring. I know some of the Archer matches lasted way too long. I think a 14.1 tourney every now and then is a good change of pace, but I don't see it as a big money maker in the grand scheme of pool.

I'd like to get others' thoughts on the tourney, which was a very well ran and presented one. I've been critical of Charlie Williams' personal descrepancies but he can put on a very nice tournament. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Gotta agree with you, but on the other hand my favorite game to watch, one pocket, might rank below 14.1 in viewer appeal. For me it's 1. one pocket,2. a tie between 10 ball and 14.1, 3. 8 ball, 4. 9 ball.
 
corvette1340 said:
Having followed and watched the ppv's all week for the Predator World 14.1 Championships I have a few thoughts. First, like many, I haven't watched a whole lot of world class straight pool. I watched all of the Schmidt/Harriman TAR PPV's and a few other tourneys but was relatively new to it.

A lot of the more well known pros don't often play 14.1 because they've concentrated on 9/10 ball primarily since that is whats played mostly here in the states. I remember talking to Stevie a few years ago about it and he was saying that he hardly ever played and his high run was like 30 something. I believe he ran 85 this week en route to his 13th place finish.

It was great to see the intricate details of the game. It really is an entire different animal. Watching Thorsten and Oliver Ortmann was especially impressive.

Having said that, I don't feel that 14.1 is a great draw for the average viewer. Most hardcore pool fans, like here on AZ, will appreciate the subtle nuances on 14.1. But, the average viewer will find it slow and boring. I know some of the Archer matches lasted way too long. I think a 14.1 tourney every now and then is a good change of pace, but I don't see it as a big money maker in the grand scheme of pool.

I'd like to get others' thoughts on the tourney, which was a very well ran and presented one. I've been critical of Charlie Williams' personal descrepancies but he can put on a very nice tournament. Thoughts?
Click to expand...


The unwashed will say the game is boring. But it's not boring, it's too hard.

I think the problem is just that many players don't get any of that -- they try it and can't run any balls and then say they don't like it, because they get bored. 14.1 is hard and complex, but not obviously so. To the untrained eye, it may look like they're all shooting hangers. While a more knowledgeable spectator can watch the same run and see that a player is in deep do-do, even though he has several open shots.

I guess it's the same with any sport. The fans need to be educated in the games subtleties and the beauty that lies within. But no body's got time for that anymore :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
I love to play pool but have a tough time maintaining interest in watching it...that goes for all games. And I know what they are doing!
 
I spent three days at the event, the pockets were very wide, but I suppose you have to have the pockets wide if you want to see some good runs.
I have a Diamond table with very tight pockets, not sure if any of the players could have run 100 balls.

It was a great event, and the venue was ideal.
 
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