World Ten Ball - Will the show go on? Will it be cancelled?

MasterClass said:
Can this whole thing be summarized to as such. All that long winded stuff is becoming to difficult to follow. I can hardly tell BMPM or BPMP whatever is who or who.

Party A is trying to host an major world tournament involving players from all over the world in country X.

Party B is trying to spoil that international tournament in country X by withholding star players from that tournament and with it opportunity for better sponsors until their demands are met.

At this point even if their demands are met party B would rather see the tournament fail for xxx reasons.

With that, the rest of the world will have to suffer the consequences while Country X firmly believes that Pool is a game that the whole world revolve around country X?



I hope I can make things clearer and easier for you and for all the other members who's interested to know what's going on there, please bear with me. Here's what I've gathered so far...

Yen Makabenta is the president of Raya Sports, a private entity/corporation who dabbles into pool tournaments. There's nothing wrong with that EXCEPT, he's also the chairman of BSCP (Billiards and Snooker Congress of the Philippines), a gov't run organization who's sole purpose is to develop the grassroots talent in the Philippines, meaning, it's suppose to be in charge of the AMATEUR side of pool only. The WPA also acknowledges the BSCP as the official representative body of the Philippines, and thus, all affiliations for all WPA sanctioned tournaments goes thru the BSCP.

It's no surprise that all WPA sanctioned tournaments are all "awarded" to Raya Sports, and they've (Raya/BSCP/Yen) has been brandishing this affiliation powers to the players to kowtow to their whims. Alex was ask to do a commercial/promotional video for Raya and he ask if there was any monetary gains for the time and trouble he will invest, instead, Raya/BSCP/Yen felt he is not in a position to demand as they hold all the cards. What happen next was Alex' expulsion from the Guinness event, giving a lame excuse of his "sharking" his opponent just to get back at him. They (Raya/BSCP) also held an elimination tournament to decide who's suppose to represent the Philippines but changed rules in midstream just to favor their preferred players, who remained loyal to their cause.

The players said enough is enough and decided to form BMPAP, with the help of their managers. BMPAP have Efren, Busti, Alcano, Orcullo, Gomez, Pagulayan and a host of other players while Manalo, Gabica and a few others stayed with BSCP.

The WPA's baby, the World Ten-Ball Championships was "awarded" to Raya Sports to host, thanks to Yen's position at the BSCP, but since the local sponsors are looking for a ROI, they wanted the "big guns" to be there.

That's in a nutshell, I hope Bandido or Sputnik can add some or correct whatever mistakes I've made...
 
Last edited:
gopi-1 said:
I hope I can make things clearer and easier for you and for all the other members who's interested to know what's going on there, please bear with me. Here's what I've gathered so far...

Yen Makabenta is the president of Raya Sports, a private entity/corporation who dabbles into pool tournaments. There's nothing wrong with that EXCEPT, he's also the chairman of BSCP (Billiards and Snooker Congress of the Philippines), a gov't run organization who's sole purpose is to develop the grassroots talent in the Philippines, meaning, it's suppose to be in charge of the AMATEUR side of pool only. The WPA also acknowledges the BSCP as the official representative body of the Philippines, and thus, all affiliations for all WPA sanctioned tournaments goes thru the BSCP.

It's no surprise that all WPA sanctioned tournaments are all "awarded" to Raya Sports, and they've (Raya/BSCP/Yen) has been brandishing this affiliation powers to the players to kowtow to their whims. Alex was ask to do a commercial/promotional video for Raya and he ask if there was any monetary gains for the time and trouble he will invest, instead, Raya/BSCP/Yen felt he is not in a position to demand as they hold all the cards. What happen next was Alex' expulsion from the Guinness event, giving a lame excuse of his "sharking" his opponent just to get back at him. They (Raya/BSCP) also held an elimination tournament to decide who's suppose to represent the Philippines but changed rules in midstream just to favor their preferred players, who remained loyal to their cause.

The players said enough is enough and decided to form BMPAP, with the help of their managers. BMPAP have Efren, Busti, Alcano, Orcullo, Gomez, Pagulayan and a host of other players while Manalo, Gabica and a few others stayed with BSCP.

The WPA's baby, the World Ten-Ball Championships was "awarded" to Raya Sports to host, thanks to Yen's position at the BSCP, but since the local sponsors are looking for a ROI, they wanted the "big guns" to be there.

That's in a nutshell, I hope Bandido or Sputnik can add some or correct whatever mistakes I've made...

So in summary, Yen/raya/bscp = bad guy. Correct?

But by withholding players and hoping that the event ends in ruins for all, i can't see how the other party can be the good guys either.

Can't you people find some domestic event to do all this?
 
MasterClass said:
So in summary, Yen/raya/bscp = bad guy. Correct?

But by withholding players and hoping that the event ends in ruins for all, i can't see how the other party can be the good guys either.

Can't you people find some domestic event to do all this?



The BMPAP did all they could do to patch things up, since early this year. but since RAYA/BSCP have the "affiliation" power, they thought they won't need the BMPAP and their players, now look what happen? Since reconciliation is out of the question, the BMPAP made their own programme for the whole year. They've already committed, so, what you do want them to do? Drop everything and everybody (their own sponsors/venue) like a hot potato?
 
The big players in Philippines are being sponsored by big comapanies. So it is not just the players who have a say but also the sponsors. Remember what happened to Asian tour? When it was changed to Guinness, SMC did not allow Reyes and Busta compete. When BSCP anounced WTBC, I don't think they ever talk to SMC or other sponsors, they just presumed they will get the sponsors they needed. They said Puyat, Reyes and Busta manager, is one of the richest person in Manila, so just think about his connections. Makabenta looks like is not connected with anybody, he should not have gotten this WTBC deal unless he got everything he needed including BMPAP support.
 
parvus1202 said:
The big players in Philippines are being sponsored by big comapanies. So it is not just the players who have a say but also the sponsors. Remember what happened to Asian tour? When it was changed to Guinness, SMC did not allow Reyes and Busta compete. When BSCP anounced WTBC, I don't think they ever talk to SMC or other sponsors, they just presumed they will get the sponsors they needed. They said Puyat, Reyes and Busta manager, is one of the richest person in Manila, so just think about his connections. Makabenta looks like is not connected with anybody, he should not have gotten this WTBC deal unless he got everything he needed including BMPAP support.



Correct! He didn't expect the formation of the BMPAP will ruin his financial aspirations! Ahhh, hindsight, if he only knew the future...
 
MasterClass said:
So in summary, Yen/raya/bscp = bad guy. Correct?

But by withholding players and hoping that the event ends in ruins for all, i can't see how the other party can be the good guys either.

Can't you people find some domestic event to do all this?



... and this is for clarification. Nobody's being held at gunpoint here, the players themselves decided not to join any tournaments that there's no guarantee, you've gotten used to seeing the players not being paid in the US. It's about time the players, and not just the Filipino players, to unite for their own sake. It's got to start somewhere...
 
MasterClass said:
So in summary, Yen/raya/bscp = bad guy. Correct?

But by withholding players and hoping that the event ends in ruins for all, i can't see how the other party can be the good guys either.

Can't you people find some domestic event to do all this?

No, Masterclass. The withholding of players are not from the leadership of Party B. The players themselves signed a manifesto long ago for Makabenta to step down from BSCP and that they will not play in any Raya tournament until he does so. Signatories are Efren Bata, Alex, Alcano, Django, Orcullo, Gomez, Luat, Kiamko, and about 30 more players.

It's not like we are holding the WTB hostage at the last minute because BMPAP players have been refusing playing in domestic BMPAP/Raya tournaments.

Makabenta had his priorities... seeing to it that he looks good in WPA's eyes was on top of the list so that players would come and attend the WTB.

So there was time to solve the domestic issues.

We all love the game of pool. Even 10-Ball. We all love international tournaments. But we are not about to be had by Makabenta. WTB is going to happen anyway. It's just that perhaps Berry will have to pay up.:grin:
 
sputnik said:
No, Masterclass. The withholding of players are not from the leadership of Party B. The players themselves signed a manifesto long ago for Makabenta to step down from BSCP and that they will not play in any Raya tournament until he does so. Signatories are Efren Bata, Alex, Alcano, Django, Orcullo, Gomez, Luat, Kiamko, and about 30 more players.

It's not like we are holding the WTB hostage at the last minute because BMPAP players have been refusing playing in domestic BMPAP/Raya tournaments.

Makabenta had his priorities... seeing to it that he looks good in WPA's eyes was on top of the list so that players would come and attend the WTB.

So there was time to solve the domestic issues.

We all love the game of pool. Even 10-Ball. We all love international tournaments. But we are not about to be had by Makabenta. WTB is going to happen anyway. It's just that perhaps Berry will have to pay up.:grin:



In behalf of all the foreign players who were invited or have earned their spots through Qualifiers, here's the $64 question...

So the WTB is still a go a hundred percent? Same prize money as previously announced? Your response to these queries will be much appreciated Sputnik!
 
gopi-1 said:
In behalf of all the foreign players who were invited or have earned their spots through Qualifiers, here's the $64 question...

So the WTB is still a go a hundred percent? Same prize money as previously announced? Your response to these queries will be much appreciated Sputnik!
I have posted so often about the prize money needing to be put in escrow as required by the Games and Amusements Board. Until such happens then we cannot give you a positive answer to your query.

Now, with what we see and hear within the industry (players, other minor Pool Organizations and usual pool event corporate sponsors, the signals being sent out doesn't sound favourable.
 
is it a sure thing that the star Filipino players will not be playing?

Also, is BSCP/Raya doing anything to reach out to the other Filipino players to get them to play? are they banning them from the event?

wont WPA want the star players there?are they doing anything about it?
 
parvus1202 said:
Sponsorships in any sports is the key, no sponsors, no sports. Without sponsors for WTBC means it will be cancelled.
Hard to belive ,that WPA give they "sanction" to Raya if they are not 100% sure that money is there ....... and Wpa just watch by side ,when Raya try to pick sponsors just two week before tournament to fill prize money..... No way ...... Wpa has whistle game over in that case

I belive prize money is there already and someone has give back up to Raya ....... question is,are Raya going to make any profit or not
 
Didn't the WPA also issue a press release that players should be in good standing with their National Association to be qualified to play in a WPA-sanctioned event? So, the BMPAP players took that as "bullying" as a product of that "affiliation power" that they keep brandishing. Thsi is not just an internal problem now with the WPA stepping-in as it did.

I don't understand all these ill-thought of maneuvers. Isn't what they did in handling the situation here so haphzard? It's like the US Open not having Shane, Johnny, Rodney, Mike D., Charlie W., Jeremy, etc. Foolish, foolish, foolish.....
 
Only 2 people wanted to bet with me on this offer, even though it is a World Championship that will be organized...

I think that says a lot...

Let's wait and see what's happening now
 
BMPAP Advisory reprint

First released 21 July 2008 then 15 August 2008 then 16 September 2008.


BMPAP Advisory


Mabuhay! The sport that we Filipinos take most pride in is in its most exciting time. Our beloved Filipino Poolplayers are continually reaching greater heights and the most recent achievements of note are Alex Pagulayan's triumph in the 2008 World Pool Masters and Dennis Orcullo's conquest in the 1st Qatar International 9-Ball Championship.

The Philippines and its people are blessed with such abundance of world-class players that every world caliber competition is always regarded as another laurel that can easily be donned by a Filipino Pool Champion. Such source of national pride and its ever increasing frequency brings too the ever increasing responsibility in safeguarding this national treasure that our country is extremely proud of in this economically trying times.

We, the BMPAP Officers and Directors, being of service to the country and its people in safeguarding and assuring that this source of national pride will continually progress would like to solicit the assistance of all our loyal supporters in our fight to battle the unauthorized use and exploitation of our Champions and up-and-comers in our sport of pool.

May we please remind all our supporters that there are elements that flaunt the names of our champions for their own personal financial gains without the authority to use these names in association with their promoted events.

In response to the above improprieties, the BMPAP Organization announces that all BMPAP member players, their names and likeness cannot be used in advertising or as part of any marketing/event sponsorship solicitation program without the expressed written consent of the BMPAP Organization.

We encourage you to contact us for further information and assistance or to report such occurance of misrepresentation. Your kind cooperation is requested and appreciated.



Atty. Vic D. Rodriguez
President
 
Johnnyt said:
All I can say is that it's a damn shame that politics derailed the biggest powerhouse country for pool. That's what you get letting your players come over here and talk to ours. We no how to f*** pool up. We're experts. Johnnyt
Politics?! Noooo! Just normal process in business that wasn't addressed properly. When did it ever occur that a Production Company was approved of a loan from a Financing Company to start shooting a movie without signed contracts with the Starring Role Actors?

In our case, because of production company arrogance, no contract signing ever took place before the set was constructed.

A lot of things here in the Philippines are patterned after the American Systems, remember "colonial mentality"? Having stated that I ask you this. Is it normal practice for an American Movie outfit to start shooting a movie without signed contracts from the actors? Specially since these World Championships are considered the "biggest" shows in the "Pool World".

The "politics" that you and most here refer to is what is called "contract negotiation" in Corporate America or "Corporate Anywhere" for that matter.
I rest my case.
 
Last edited:
bandido said:
Politics?! Noooo! Just normal process in business that wasn't addressed properly. When did it ever occur that a Production Company was approved of a loan from a Financing Company to start shooting a movie without signed contracts with the Starring Role Actors?

In our case, because of production company arrogance, no contract signing ever took place before the set was constructed.

A lot of things here in the Philippines are patterned after the American Systems, remember "colonial mentality"? Having stated that I ask you this. Is it normal practice for an American Movie outfit to start shooting a movie without signed contracts from the actors? Specially since these World Championships are considered the "biggest" shows in the "Pool World".

The "politics" that you and most here refer to is what is called "contract negotiation" in Corporate America or "Corporate Anywhere" for that matter.
I rest my case.

I can't recall a world championship where the players had to sign contracts with the promoter. The IPT is the only one in recent memory where the players, individually, signed contracts with the promoter and the promoter provided no proof of security whatsoever.

I am certainly for pool and for players. I am also for business as I understand the business side of it as well.

First, it IS politics. Call a spade a spade. You resent Makabenta's power, such as it is, or the way he wields it. Fine. Discontent breeds rebellion and successful rebellion leads to change. For the better or worse is not evident until after the change of power is complete.

It's obvious that the pool world needs to up the ante for promoters. However what the promoters need to do to provide guarantees to the players is not clear. It's understandable what you want to do, just the implications of it are not entirely foreseeable at this point. I can't really see a world where promoters are providing escrow account information to a plethora of player organizations and managers around the world.

The Philippines is also quite unique in the pool world. No where else are there "stables" (I HATE that word when used for human beings) of players being managed. Why can't we say teams? Nowhere else are there professional teams being managed professionally. Pool has always been seen as an individual sport.

So the whole team concept - when applied literally is a new force in pool. The idea that there is a team owner who naturally wants to see his team members participating in tournaments so as to maximize his income from the team and protect his investment, is counter to the idea of one player against the field. It is an obvious assumption that team members would seek to play in such a way as to insure that the strongest members advance. Look at cycling for an example of this.

So, for those of us on the outside looking in, we are naturally dismayed at the strife, we are dismayed at the prospect of not seeing our favorite stars due to possible "appearance fee" conflicts, BMAPA boycotts, and whatever other issues that the BMAPA has with promoters. Not to say that you are not within your right to demand what you want. But we always thought of the Phillipines as pool paradise.

In fact, we have already seen this on a small scale and that may very be individual decision but the fans in Asia have been deprived of Efren Reyes since he is not playing on the Guiness tour. I don't know what the situation is of why the tour switched from San Miguel to Guiness but the facts are that the switch cost the fans Efren Reyes. And unless San Miguel is making up the income Reyes is losing money by not participating.

Personally, I think that insulting the WPA is not going to result in them working with you. What will work is if you do your tour and your tournaments and pay what you advertise. If you build it they will come. The players that is. Then when you are more than just some letters and promises the WPA will want to and have to work you because their constituents, the players will demand to be allowed to play in your events.

This slugfest, while entertaining, is somewhat non-productive at this point. You and Roy appear to have at least been able to get Raya and the WPA to state that the event will happen with full payouts. I guess that's better than nothing. However, now it's probably best to wait and see what happens.
 
I agree with you John. What I did was try to explain as simple as I can on what went on here. Such proceedure applies to most business endeavors. Pool only figures in when we consider the passion. Pool is everyone's passion here, take that shared passion out of the equation and what we have is as I've described.

Politics:
The issue only turned political when power was abused and brandished to supress and control the constituency for the good of a small group's pockets. BSCP/RAYA is a partnership that in itself is a conflict of interest. To benefit RAYA events BSCP's powers are used to control the constituency, as it was in Alex's case. Alex got taken out of the Guinness Tour by BSCP because he asked for an appearance fee to play in a RAYA event. Now that the W10BC is a RAYA Event then it should have been straight business deal but with the BSCP's "affiliation powers" still available to Yen the whole thing turned political.

Efren:
Efren is a very loyal person and it is a very admirable asset. He doesn't get paid by San Miguel now to just be on stand-by until the next TV commercial that he stars in yet he stands by them for what good they have brought him. Efren is my idol when it comes to loyalty above any other trait or achievement.

Stable:
I don't even know where the word "stable" originated from and that's two of us who doesn't like the word when used with people.

WPA:
I'm not wanting WPA to work with us. What I expect them to do as a recognized World Sport Governing Body is to do their job. They could have directed their continental member to look into the situation when there was still time. To this day I still ask "What happened to APBU?" Somehow I have a hunch that WPA Ian Anderson , WPA/EPBF Gre Leenders and BCA has a financial stake in the W10BC. A hunch too on a few non-player individuals that are getting all-expense paid trips here. Again, just a hunch folks.

Prize in Escrow:
Considering what you said I'm inclined to think that Professional Sport Structure and Regulation is far more advanced here than anywhere else. We have a Government Agency that was created in the '70s that regulates and supervises professional (play-for-pay) sports. It exists for the protection of all involved in professional sporting activities in this country and assists/serves all practitioners to include international competition participation. That is where the requirement for an "escrow" come from. It is the law of the land. Here in the Philippines, respect the and abide by Philippine Laws. There in the United States, respect the and abide by US Laws.

Pool Paradise:
The Philippines is considered Pool Paradise because of how the society accept pool. It is Pool Paradise because the big and small local corporations accept it as a vehicle for advertising their products. It is Pool Paradise because pool competition is an acceptable and recognizble prime time tv program. It is Pool Paradise because anybody can get a game without so much "woofing" involved. It is Pool Paradise because the pool player can enjoy all other forms of activities/entertainment outside of pool yet still be close to the action. It is Pool Paradise because of its people who, even in events held in other countries, help increase event audience attendance for their desire to support and watch their fellow countrymen compete. It is Pool Paradise because visiting foreign Poolplayers hardly have any difficulty communicating with the ever hospitable locals. It is going to be moreso the Pool Paradise when the only thing that a foreign poolplayer will worry about, when he/she joins tournaments here, is how he/she will perform.


JB Cases said:
I can't recall a world championship where the players had to sign contracts with the promoter. The IPT is the only one in recent memory where the players, individually, signed contracts with the promoter and the promoter provided no proof of security whatsoever.

I am certainly for pool and for players. I am also for business as I understand the business side of it as well.

First, it IS politics. Call a spade a spade. You resent Makabenta's power, such as it is, or the way he wields it. Fine. Discontent breeds rebellion and successful rebellion leads to change. For the better or worse is not evident until after the change of power is complete.

It's obvious that the pool world needs to up the ante for promoters. However what the promoters need to do to provide guarantees to the players is not clear. It's understandable what you want to do, just the implications of it are not entirely foreseeable at this point. I can't really see a world where promoters are providing escrow account information to a plethora of player organizations and managers around the world.

The Philippines is also quite unique in the pool world. No where else are there "stables" (I HATE that word when used for human beings) of players being managed. Why can't we say teams? Nowhere else are there professional teams being managed professionally. Pool has always been seen as an individual sport.

So the whole team concept - when applied literally is a new force in pool. The idea that there is a team owner who naturally wants to see his team members participating in tournaments so as to maximize his income from the team and protect his investment, is counter to the idea of one player against the field. It is an obvious assumption that team members would seek to play in such a way as to insure that the strongest members advance. Look at cycling for an example of this.

So, for those of us on the outside looking in, we are naturally dismayed at the strife, we are dismayed at the prospect of not seeing our favorite stars due to possible "appearance fee" conflicts, BMAPA boycotts, and whatever other issues that the BMAPA has with promoters. Not to say that you are not within your right to demand what you want. But we always thought of the Phillipines as pool paradise.

In fact, we have already seen this on a small scale and that may very be individual decision but the fans in Asia have been deprived of Efren Reyes since he is not playing on the Guiness tour. I don't know what the situation is of why the tour switched from San Miguel to Guiness but the facts are that the switch cost the fans Efren Reyes. And unless San Miguel is making up the income Reyes is losing money by not participating.

Personally, I think that insulting the WPA is not going to result in them working with you. What will work is if you do your tour and your tournaments and pay what you advertise. If you build it they will come. The players that is. Then when you are more than just some letters and promises the WPA will want to and have to work you because their constituents, the players will demand to be allowed to play in your events.

This slugfest, while entertaining, is somewhat non-productive at this point. You and Roy appear to have at least been able to get Raya and the WPA to state that the event will happen with full payouts. I guess that's better than nothing. However, now it's probably best to wait and see what happens.
 
Last edited:
liar liar

bandido said:
We're not TRYING TO SPOIL, we have from time and again have expressed in speech and writing that we don't want to be a part of their 2 decade plus directionless and oppressive system. Our actions have nothing to do with a world competition for it is about straightening up a sick system HERE.

They don't agree that there's something wrong so we cannot be blamed for their decisions.

again the bandido betrays himself

the current bscp only came in before the last sea games -- "2 decade plus directionless and oppressive system?" that's the leadership of your benefactor putch puyat. no credible tournaments, just exhibition matches for his "stars." he even refused to have anything to do with bringing wpc in the phil. all those years. ask ted lerner, the matchroom rep in the country

go ahead bandido -- the more you post, the more you contradict yourself

liar, liar, pants on fire!
 
ASalvador said:
again the bandido betrays himself

the current bscp only came in before the last sea games -- "2 decade plus directionless and oppressive system?" that's the leadership of your benefactor putch puyat. no credible tournaments, just exhibition matches for his "stars." he even refused to have anything to do with bringing wpc in the phil. all those years. ask ted lerner, the matchroom rep in the country

go ahead bandido -- the more you post, the more you contradict yourself

liar, liar, pants on fire!



How old are you? 12? 10???
 
All Matchroom events (WPC, Mosconi Cup, World Cup etc) require the participating players to sign contracts
 
Back
Top