World Ten Ball - Will the show go on? Will it be cancelled?

[sputnik]

Jay, what puzzles me is the complete deafness in WPA of what is being written in the forums. WPA seems to have a blind allegiance to Makabenta's Raya Sports. Even allegations should be investigated on and WPA should be thankful to the forums because in them will are the pulse of reality from outside of the WPA system.

Why has the WPA gone all-out on this despite the alarm signals from very thick smoke? WPA knows that their action and the lack of it will put their organization on the line if and when anything serious goes wrong to the extent of affecting the players that they have persuaded to proceed despite the absence of investigation.

Now they announce that additional money may be given. If this money will come from WPA sources, then it is believable. But if it will come from local sponsors, I highly doubt it. Recently, BMPAP sat down with two huge sponsors of pool in the country. Both required a confirmed list of attendee players because of poor promotions in two recent events. They apologised for the extra requirement that BMPAP is affected by the poor promotions of others. The info on hand-made sponsor streamers that Edwin mentioned came from one of those meetings. BMPAP will definitely have no problems with the new requirement because it has all the marquee players save for Manalo and Gabica.

At first, I interpreted the constant announcements from the WPA side (while Raya was very quiet) as a means to pressure Makabenta into delivering the goods because there had already been expenses incurred in different qualifiers and in airline purchases.

But I seem to have found the real answers by looking at the Constitution and Tournament Sanctioning Catalogue of the WPA:

2.4 Autonomy
The WPA is organised democratically and refrains from involvement in the internal affairs of the continental and other organisations within the WPA membership. Similarly, other organisations will refrain from involvement in the internal affairs of pool-billiards. Only with just cause as determined by the Board or by a specific request will the WPA investigate with the intent to cure any problem.

As long as WTBC pays WPA for the sanction fees, WPA will be okay with everything.

And WPA will be off the hook if Raya screws up:

1.6 Limitation on Liabilities.
Nothing herein shall constitute Members of the WPA as partners for any purpose. No Member, officer, agent, or employee of the WPA shall be liable for the acts or failure to act on the part of any other Member, officer, agent or employee of the WPA. Nor shall any Member, officer, agent or employee be liable for their acts or failure to act under this Constitution, except only acts or
omissions to act arising out of their wilful misfeasance.

WPA is protected by their Constitution in their actions. But they are not protected against how the people will perceive them. The mere fact that it is okay with WPA to embrace and protect a member association in BSCP -- which had lost almost all of its constituents -- makes them subject to the same consequences.

There is nothing wrong in WPA's supporting one of their own. But in this case, if anything goes wrong (in sudden changes in what was emphatically guaranteed by WPA), WPA will be seen as an accomplice to a huge pre-tournament cover-up.

What is worth all that? Is it money or is it loyalty?

Looks like you will have a good investigative story tell, Jay. Lots of goodies in constitutions, procedure, and policies! And more for you to see when you get to Manila. BMPAP will bring you to all the sources of information that had been posted here so that the world will know that there was in fact basis for raising those issues in behalf of the pool community.

I had hoped to work at this event as a TV commentator, as I had the last two times I traveled to the PI for the WPC. My co-commentators over there both put in a good word for me, and conveyed that my analysis of the matches was helpful to them and a big plus for the commentary team.

Lo and behold a little birdy tells me that Ian Anderson and the WPA got involved in my selection as a commentator. Seems they didn't like some of the criticism I have directed at them. They had "issues" with me. Yen was "informed" that I should not be a member of the commentating team at the WTBC. Appears that part of the "sanction" process also gives the WPA license to chose who they want to talk on the air.

I have since e-mailed Yen for clarification and have not gotten a reply. The silence is deafening! Maybe Ian would like to let me know when he got involved in the selection process for television commentators. I didn't know the WPA was part of the TV production team. You learn something new every day.

I guess they prefer to have plain vanilla commentators who will only offer glowing praise for everyone and everything involved in this event. Sorry Ian, if you want plain vanilla, I'm not your guy. I have and will call it like I see it. If I see injustice or inequities in the pool world, I WILL say something, either through my writing or my speaking. If the playing field isn't level or the rules are getting bent, I'm going to speak up. And if the WPA gets a little to big for their britches, they can get taken down a notch too.

No one owns me Ian, and no one will put words in my mouth. Go on collecting your "sanction" fees and doing your "small man playing the big shot" routine that you do so well. I see who you are clearly now and it isn't pretty. In the states, we would call you a "backstabber". And Yen, whatever respect I had for you, by allowing the WPA to dictate to you, is eroding fast.

Maybe Edwin has a legitimate cripe after all.

 

[jay helfert]

The WTBC is looking more like a co-promotion between the WPA and Raya. The WPA is no longer just a "sanctioning" body here, they are a partner in producing this event. It appears that they are the ones running the show and not Raya. Win or lose this one is their baby.

I'm not happy about the way I was treated by the WPA or Raya. I have supported both of them before at the WPC in 2006 and 2007. They were great events that I was glad to be associated with. But somehow they perceived me as a "problem" for them. Where that came from I have no idea. I will continue to report on what happens in Manila at the WTBC as objectively as I can.

If the tournament is well run and the money gets paid, I will be the first to applaud them. If not I will address that as well. Ultimately my wish is that they succeed. Pool does not need another black eye. There have been more questions leading up to this event than any other major tournament in the Philippines. And I think a lot of them have to do with the "partnering" up of the WPA and Raya. How it all shakes out remains to be seen.

 

[Marvel]

The WTBC is looking more like a co-promotion between the WPA and Raya. The WPA is no longer just a "sanctioning" body here, they are a partner in producing this event. It appears that they are the ones running the show and not Raya. Win or lose this one is their baby.

I'm not happy about the way I was treated by the WPA or Raya. I have supported both of them before at the WPC in 2006 and 2007. They were great events that I was glad to be associated with. But somehow they perceived me as a "problem" for them. Where that came from I have no idea. I will continue to report on what happens in Manila at the WTBC as objectively as I can.

If the tournament is well run and the money gets paid, I will be the first to applaud them. If not I will address that as well. Ultimately my wish is that they succeed. Pool does not need another black eye. There have been more questions leading up to this event than any other major tournament in the Philippines. And I think a lot of them have to do with the "partnering" up of the WPA and Raya. How it all shakes out remains to be seen.

Good post Jay.

Whatever our personal and individual attitudes are, we should try to work and wish the best for the whole pool community (not trying to give commie impressions here...lol).

But of course honesty and objectiveness is needed, and constructive critzism should be listened.
But Jay, did you ever get any reasoning for why they are not hiring you anymore? I'm not willing to read through the whole thread, but I'm just wondering if you got confirmation about the reasons..

 

[bandido]

The WTBC is looking more like a co-promotion between the WPA and Raya. The WPA is no longer just a "sanctioning" body here, they are a partner in producing this event. It appears that they are the ones running the show and not Raya. Win or lose this one is their baby.

I'm not happy about the way I was treated by the WPA or Raya. I have supported both of them before at the WPC in 2006 and 2007. They were great events that I was glad to be associated with. But somehow they perceived me as a "problem" for them. Where that came from I have no idea. I will continue to report on what happens in Manila at the WTBC as objectively as I can.

If the tournament is well run and the money gets paid, I will be the first to applaud them. If not I will address that as well. Ultimately my wish is that they succeed. Pool does not need another black eye. There have been more questions leading up to this event than any other major tournament in the Philippines. And I think a lot of them have to do with the "partnering" up of the WPA and Raya. How it all shakes out remains to be seen.

Welcome to the neighborhood Jay. What happened to you is typical of the authoritarians. I used to help BSCP and at one point was asked to be one of its director. An article about PSC Chairman Butch Ramirez's interview about giving bscp 10M hit the papers and I questioned it. Soon after, I was the target of maliscious text messages from their group. One good thing came of that situation though, BMPAP was formed.

 

[bandido]

The WTBC is looking more like a co-promotion between the WPA and Raya. The WPA is no longer just a "sanctioning" body here, they are a partner in producing this event. It appears that they are the ones running the show and not Raya. Win or lose this one is their baby.

I'm not happy about the way I was treated by the WPA or Raya. I have supported both of them before at the WPC in 2006 and 2007. They were great events that I was glad to be associated with. But somehow they perceived me as a "problem" for them. Where that came from I have no idea. I will continue to report on what happens in Manila at the WTBC as objectively as I can.

If the tournament is well run and the money gets paid, I will be the first to applaud them. If not I will address that as well. Ultimately my wish is that they succeed. Pool does not need another black eye. There have been more questions leading up to this event than any other major tournament in the Philippines. And I think a lot of them have to do with the "partnering" up of the WPA and Raya. How it all shakes out remains to be seen.

My sources from within heard informal discussion about your issue and basically here's the response:

 

[bandido]

Good post Jay.

But Jay, did you ever get any reasoning for why they are not hiring you anymore? I'm not willing to read through the whole thread, but I'm just wondering if you got confirmation about the reasons..

Allow me, from my experience within said group. Jay is friends with Bandido, Perry the Pocket and their Pro players like Efren, Django, Dennis, Gomez, etc. He is a possible info leak. Secondly, he writes about them without first getting approval, from them, for the contents of. F$#k freedom of speech there! Remember what happened when I questioned the newspaper report about the 10M given to BSCP?

Just from my experience working and being around the BSCP/RAYA people. You can ask another poster here too. He was the one that I recruited to help with computer programming work for the 2007WPC. No financial exchange just plain old helping out. He might just step up.

 

[jay helfert]

Good post Jay.

Whatever our personal and individual attitudes are, we should try to work and wish the best for the whole pool community (not trying to give commie impressions here...lol).

But of course honesty and objectiveness is needed, and constructive critzism should be listened.
But Jay, did you ever get any reasoning for why they are not hiring you anymore? I'm not willing to read through the whole thread, but I'm just wondering if you got confirmation about the reasons..

No communication whatsoever. It was a decision made behind closed doors. Nobody owes me anything. I just didn't appreciate the way it was handled. But it's over now and it gives me more free time to do other things. I will be writing for a major pool publication and doing a daily blog on here.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see how the WPA conducts a tournament and compare that to the way the WPC has been run by Matchroom. They do have one big strike against them if it's held in the Philippines without the recognized champions. Of course it appears as if it will still be a strong and deep field.

 

[berry]

I think my bet is getting better and better....

And bandido is losing his pissing contest.

Jay is not the commentator, sorry to hear, but people; he is over it.

Lets all hope that the tournament will be great and that Niels wins it. (ok, the last part is just me )

 

[Pecca]

I gues bandido and his Philippine players has valid reason not to play in this tournamet ,but they strategy to dig ground under this tournament dosnt sound very wise in long therm ..... i mean if there is a river even at future and you has to get over it,is there any sense to burn bridge then??

 

[Renegade]

I gues bandido and his Philippine players has valid reason not to play in this tournamet ,but they strategy to dig ground under this tournament dosnt sound very wise in long therm ..... i mean if there is a river even at future and you has to get over it,is there any sense to burn bridge then??

good point.

but it looks as if everyone's going down and it seems like this is how makabenta feels about the whole thing....

haha! nice pic, bandido! says a whole lot more that what the blurb states.....

 

[bandido]

I think my bet is getting better and better....

And bandido is losing his pissing contest.

Jay is not the commentator, sorry to hear, but people; he is over it.

Lets all hope that the tournament will be great and that Niels wins it. (ok, the last part is just me )

I have news for you berry. I just recieved info from somebody who's being used as a bridge to me for BSCP/RAYA. The offer is now what we have always asked for. That, Makabenta leaves BSCP and in exchange we participate. Why is our participation real important for the success of the WTBC? Common sense berry!
1. We're in the Philippines
2. Filipinos are going to be the great majority of the audience
3. they are the target audience of the sponsors' products thus the justification for the marketing fund release of these corporations
4. this Filipino audience are so nationalistic as the world saw in the past 2 WPCs
5. They root exclusively for the Filipino Champions.
6. A letter of intent to participate is now a requirement of these corporations before they agree to release sponsorship funding.

6 months ago that arrangement for Makabenta to resign from BSCP to get the BMPAP to support BSCP, OUR National Sport Association, would've transpired smoothly. But they BSCP/RAYA had to try to get us to concede through the use/abuse of their "affiliation powers" and text and media misinformation.

This offer as of this date is worthless. It's just 2 weeks before the start of the Main Tournament. They've made bad decisions all the while and now it's just too late to reconcile and make things work. They now have ran out of time and it is in my opinion that it's too late now that approaching sponsors for the funding needed won't be fruitful.

It's too late and the hole in the hull is too big, we won't be a part of a sinking ship!


<<<<<<it's not a pissing contest berry, I was fighting for the sport. Go reread everything that I've written down, understand and feel my message.

 

[Renegade]

Say it ain't so, bandido! can't anything else be done at this point to salvage this tournament?

 

[parvus1202]

Sponsorships in any sports is the key, no sponsors, no sports. Without sponsors for WTBC means it will be cancelled. And here is bad news for BMPAP, you will be the one to be blaimed by BSCP. BSCP can't blaim themselves, they need somebody and BMPAP is the closest one.

 

[bandido]

Sponsorships in any sports is the key, no sponsors, no sports. Without sponsors for WTBC means it will be cancelled. And here is bad news for BMPAP, you will be the one to be blaimed by BSCP. BSCP can't blaim themselves, they need somebady and BMPAP is the closest one.

I agree with you 100%. They don't know how to admit their mistakes so it's easier to blame somebody else for ones failure.

Saving grace for us(BMPAP) to disprove their soon to come false propaganda(excuse for failure) will be all the documented post that I made in the forums since this whole fiasco unfolded. Tough luck for them, I did have acquired the American system concerning the importance of documentation.

<<<<still wishing them luck for the sake of all the foreign players that are flying in.

 

[bandido]

Say it ain't so, bandido! can't anything else be done at this point to salvage this tournament?

I still can't say that the WTBC won't push through as some miracle sponsor who'll shell out the 25M deficit(my estimate only folks) may suddenly appear. As for the BMPAP making a miracle happen for them, I think its too late. They, BSCP/RAYA/WPA, just waited too long or just tried to bully us too long. We really can't do anything for them now and they can hold on to their "affiliation powers" all they like.

 

[MasterClass]

Can this whole thing be summarized to as such. All that long winded stuff is becoming to difficult to follow. I can hardly tell BMPM or BPMP whatever is who or who.

Party A is trying to host an major world tournament involving players from all over the world in country X.

Party B is trying to spoil that international tournament in country X by withholding star players from that tournament and with it opportunity for better sponsors until their demands are met.

At this point even if their demands are met party B would rather see the tournament fail for xxx reasons.

With that, the rest of the world will have to suffer the consequences while Country X firmly believes that Pool is a game that the whole world revolve around country X?

 

[memikey]

What a complete and utter shambles!

 

[sputnik]

Makabenta needed the WPA accreditation of BSCP for Raya to pursue WTB. Resigning from BSCP early would have put that accreditation in danger if a maveric steps into BSCP. He was not resigning at all costs becasue he had nothing more to lose. BMPAP asked that of him a long time ago.

Now that it's too late for a maveric to discredit Raya and rock the fragile WTB, he shifts back to negotiations and is willing to step down from BSCP (if what the mediator of Edwin is saying is true). He has nothing more to lose because he has lured the WPA guys and some players in. Now he needds the pinoy top honchos to get sponsors.

The sequencing is off.

From what I hear, the TV table in the Star Paper compound is about ready for action. They also have chosen the NSA weekly press conference (free) tomorrow to launch the WTB.

As for taking the blame for any WTB foul-ups, BMPAP has made it clear that it disowns any Raya event, its business ethics, and its accreditations.

 

[bandido]

Can this whole thing be summarized to as such. All that long winded stuff is becoming to difficult to follow. I can hardly tell BMPM or BPMP whatever is who or who.

Party A is trying to host an major world tournament involving players from all over the world in country X.

Party B is trying to spoil that international tournament in country X by withholding star players from that tournament and with it opportunity for better sponsors until their demands are met.

At this point even if their demands are met party B would rather see the tournament fail for xxx reasons.

With that, the rest of the world will have to suffer the consequences while Country X firmly believes that Pool is a game that the whole world revolve around country X?

We're not TRYING TO SPOIL, we have from time and again have expressed in speech and writing that we don't want to be a part of their 2 decade plus directionless and oppressive system. Our actions have nothing to do with a world competition for it is about straightening up a sick system HERE.

They don't agree that there's something wrong so we cannot be blamed for their decisions.

 

[sputnik]

Can this whole thing be summarized to as such. All that long winded stuff is becoming to difficult to follow. I can hardly tell BMPM or BPMP whatever is who or who.

Party A is trying to host an major world tournament involving players from all over the world in country X.

Party B is trying to spoil that international tournament in country X by withholding star players from that tournament and with it opportunity for better sponsors until their demands are met.

At this point even if their demands are met party B would rather see the tournament fail for xxx reasons.

With that, the rest of the world will have to suffer the consequences while Country X firmly believes that Pool is a game that the whole world revolve around country X?

Too simplistic with bad premises.

Party A is trying to host an major world tournament involving players from all over the world in country X but it had stepped on too many people in the process.

Party B is disowning that international tournament in country X and the star players of Party B refuse to play in that tournament and with it opportunity for better sponsors until their demands (which were expressed early this year) are met.

At this point even if their demands are met party B would rather see the tournament fail for xxx reasons.

With that, the rest of the world will see a lesson learned that one cannot use the WPA and step on the whole pool community for personal gains.

I have a few more days to go for me to determine if I will contradict Makabenta's column "A Global Sport" that "If the WPA or somebody not named KT will lead the way, many will follow". Perhaps KT will need another person's initials with it.

The point is, will any of you folks want another KT Reno tournament? In a few more days, I will know if I have to revise the question.