wow SVB forfeits match vs Alcano

[Old Nine Baller]

You want to spread blame around and take the responsibility away from Shane.

If Shane had attended the player's meeting;

If Shane had learned the rules for this tourney;

If Shane had followed those rules;

If Shane had called every 10 ball in every game against every opponent then he could eliminate a biased or incompetent ref from the equation and he could've eliminated his opponent from the equation.

Then this situation would not have occurred and we could go back to talking about the Mosconi cup failure.:smile:

ONB

No one has definitively answered what the rules were. We've heard that it was stated that they were playing WPA rules AND we've heard that it was stated that the ten ball must be called.

Here let me spell it out for you...

If the rule was EXPLICITLY stated as being call ALL ten balls, then Shane is at fault for not being aware of that rule by not either asking for a clarification of the rules or for not being at the player's meeting.

So let's go by that assumption then. Did Shane ask an official what rules they were playing and was he told WPA rules???

If so, then it was bad on the part of whoever told him what rules they were playing under.

Let's say he didn't...

It was STILL chickenshit of his opponent to not remind him of that after recognizing that he didn't call it the first time.

Also, it was stupid for the ref to call it after THREE times of not calling it on Shane and then to NOT call it on Busty.

I am NOT, nor have I in this thread taken the onus off of Shane.

He could have called it every time just to be sure there was no question.

I'll tell you one thing though, of all the tourneys I've watched and played in, this is the FIRST one that I've EVER heard of having to call obvious shots...EVER.

Jaden

Here, let me spell it out for you. Someone who doesn't know the Sun is closest to the Earth in winter cannot ever spell anything out for me. I've forgotten more than you've ever known about pool and gambling at it.

Go talk down to someone else and try to bully them.

ONB

 

[sheffield6]

I think most players know the rules of 10 ball call shot.
This Mickey Mouse rule has no part of any game.
But , no class dickheads will be happy to take the win.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

You DO realize that his loss to Gariando came AFTER this incident and could have been mostly due to lost focus from the psychological impact of THIS incident don't you????

I know from personal experience, when I'm incensed from an incident I can either start playing lights out or not make a ball. It HAS a psychological effect on people which is why people do it the majority of the time and it's chickenshit...

Jaden

I figure that most of the time you start playing "lights out"

You don't gamble, what do you know?????

ONB

 

[Island Drive]

It was a nitty call from Ronnie and thef. That's a call you expect from someone on league night. Johnnyt

We have another Bingo.......

 

[Jaden]

Yeah...

Here, let me spell it out for you. Someone who doesn't know the Sun is closest to the Earth in winter cannot ever spell anything out for me. I've forgotten more than you've ever known about pool and gambling at it.

Go talk down to someone else and try to bully them.

ONB

**** it, someone's going on ignore for the first time in the twelve years I've posted on this site and I would suggest to the mods to look at some of the atagonists on this site. There are a few of them and they make it difficult for those of us who just like to contribute...

Jaden

 

[cleary]

ONCE AGAIN, CALL E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G SO THINGS LIKE-------->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZcg...ailpage#t=6737 CANT COME INTO EXISTENCE!!!! :frown:

Or call nothing...

 

[wutang]

True indeed, A.C.! :thumbup:

 

[nine_ball6970]

**** it, someone's going on ignore for the first time in the twelve years I've posted on this site and I would suggest to the mods to look at some of the atagonizers on this site. Their are a few of them and they make it difficult for those of us who just like to contribute...

Jaden

Obviously there are two camps on this particular subject. People tend to take things personally and you calling someone chickens**t for playing by the rules is offensive as well. Whether you like it or not the rule for this tournament was you had to call the 10 ball no matter how obvious. A fact that Biado unfortunately realized at hill-hill in the semi-final match. If a player expects someone else to follow the rules as well then that is up to him. You could say all day long that you personally wouldn't call someone on it. You can only make that decision for yourself but you can't call people names for having a difference of opinion.

I was deep in APA Nationals and had a tough 8 ball shot and forgot to mark my pocket because I was so focused on making the ball. My opponent called me on it.
I did not call him names or anything else because I was the one who broke the rule. Stuff happens. You move on.

 

[Jaden]

you obviously haven't read my posts in this thread...

Obviously there are two camps on this particular subject. People tend to take things personally and you calling someone chickens**t for playing by the rules is offensive as well. Whether you like it or not the rule for this tournament was you had to call the 10 ball no matter how obvious. A fact that Biado unfortunately realized at hill-hill in the semi-final match. If a player expects someone else to follow the rules as well then that is up to him. You could say all day long that you personally wouldn't call someone on it. You can only make that decision for yourself but you can't call people names for having a difference of opinion.

I was deep in APA Nationals and had a tough 8 ball shot and forgot to mark my pocket because I was so focused on making the ball. My opponent called me on it.
I did not call him names or anything else because I was the one who broke the rule. Stuff happens. You move on.

If you believe the above then you haven't read my posts in this thread.

It is chickenshit to force a win that way, it was with Shane and it was with Biado...

Real men are honorable and don't play the technicality bullshit.

Also, I have NOT made the contention that if that was the rule then it was wrong to enforce it. It's chickenshit as the opposing player to force it to be applied IF it is the rule.

You can't use anything from after the incident with Shane as proof that the rule was in effect. By doing it with Shane they forced themselves to have to apply it to everyone after the fact.

My contention has always been two fold.

One, that there is a question as to whether it was spelled out or it was a misinterpretation of the WPA rules

and Two, that as an opponent in that situation, it is a chickenshit move to force a win that way and early in the match like with Shane, it is an attempt to psychologically manipulate your opponent.

Jaden

 

[nine_ball6970]

If you believe the above then you haven't read my posts in this thread.

It is chickenshit to force a win that way, it was with Shane and it was with Biado...

Real men are honorable and don't play the technicality bullshit.

Also, I have NOT made the contention that if that was the rule then it was wrong to enforce it. It's chickenshit as the opposing player to force it to be applied IF it is the rule.

You can't use anything from after the incident with Shane as proof that the rule was in effect. By doing it with Shane they forced themselves to have to apply it to everyone after the fact.

My contention has always been two fold.

One, that there is a question as to whether it was spelled out or it was a misinterpretation of the WPA rules

and Two, that as an opponent in that situation, it is a chickenshit move to force a win that way and early in the match like with Shane, it is an attempt to psychologically manipulate your opponent.

Jaden

You sure like to use the term chickens**t a lot when you "contribute".

Go ahead and watch the match that was streamed before Shane's match to see if they were calling the pocket or not.

If you played in this tournament and they told you implicitly you had to call the 10 ball every game at the player meeting, would you call the 10 in a match or not?

 

[Dockter]

You sure like to use the term chickens**t a lot when you "contribute".

Go ahead and watch the match that was streamed before Shane's match to see if they were calling the pocket or not.

If you played in this tournament and they told you implicitly you had to call the 10 ball every game at the player meeting, would you call the 10 in a match or not?

If you hadn't called the 10 ball in 3 previous wins do you expect to have the foul called the 4th time? That's the inexcusable part to me.

Either way it's over, this tournament turned into somewhat of a joke, not only because what happened with Shane but because it happened more than this one time. Either call the rules WPA or call them modified rules. Don't claim you are using WPA rules then add a rule. Have the refs be consistent especially when you are using a ref at every table. This isn't like other sports where your eyes have to compute something that happened in less than a second. If it's a rule that you must call it than it's pretty easy to see someone that doesn't call it.

 

[jojopiff]

You sure like to use the term chickens**t a lot when you "contribute".

Go ahead and watch the match that was streamed before Shane's match to see if they were calling the pocket or not.

If you played in this tournament and they told you implicitly you had to call the 10 ball every game at the player meeting, would you call the 10 in a match or not?

If you want to word it in a way that suits your side of the argument, fine, then yes I would.

Now if we're playing that game, would you accept a win in a game that your opponent made the ball in the obviously intended pocket. Remember, no caveats allowed. Yes or no only, it's the game you've decided is the best way to get to the answer.

 

[Jaden]

you STILL are having some SERIOUS reading comprehension problems.

You sure like to use the term chickens**t a lot when you "contribute".

Go ahead and watch the match that was streamed before Shane's match to see if they were calling the pocket or not.

If you played in this tournament and they told you implicitly you had to call the 10 ball every game at the player meeting, would you call the 10 in a match or not?

Dude, what is up with your reading comprehension...What about "my question is whether or not it WAS explicitly stated that all ten balls must be called" do you not understand?

There has STILL not been a definitive answer to that question.

It has been stated that they were told that they were playing by WPA rules, which I pointed out DO NOT require obvious shots to be called and those rules only allow for questionable shots to be clarified BEFORE the shot is taken.

If I was playing in the tournament and they told me we were playing by WPA rules and THEN told me that a straight in ten ball that I successfully make was a foul because I didn't CALL IT????

That would be unacceptable to me.

Jaden

Yep, I'll use chickenshit as often as it applies and when people can't be honorable gentlemen, then it applies. Kinda funny. I was playing the final match of tap for the session last night and I asked the team captain if he had heard what happened to Shane. He said he saw it. He doesn't frequent this forum at all and his exact words to me were, that was a chickenshit move...

 

[Jaden]

it's kinda funny..

The same people crying IT'S the RULES....in this thread...

Are the same ones that were saying that same thing in the one pocket thread where the guys had agreed two shots earlier a ball was frozen that since he didn't call it before THAT shot, you could go ahead and pretend that you didn't know it was frozen...

HMMMM... It wasn't Shane in that thread and I still stood up for the honorable gentlemanly thing there too...go figure...

Jaden

 

[nine_ball6970]

If you want to word it in a way that suits your side of the argument, fine, then yes I would.

Now if we're playing that game, would you accept a win in a game that your opponent made the ball in the obviously intended pocket. Remember, no caveats allowed. Yes or no only, it's the game you've decided is the best way to get to the answer.

Suits my side of the argument? Watch the match. Ronnie either tapped the pocket with his cue or pointed at the pocket with his cue in every single game that he won. Ronnie won the first game and did this while looking directly at the ref. Why would he do this if it wasn't a rule for that tournament? You never see him call the pocket before shooting in other 10 ball tournaments when it isn't a rule. True or false?

I would feel bad for my opponent but YES I would accept the win. If I am calling the ball as per the rules then I expect my opponent to do the same if I neglect to call it. I said earlier I lost a game at APA Nationals due to this and I did not blame my opponent because it is a rule in the APA. I don't complain about whether the rule is fair or not. I chose to play in that league so I played by the rules they used. It is pretty black and white.

 

[nine_ball6970]

The same people crying IT'S the RULES....in this thread...

Are the same ones that were saying that same thing in the one pocket thread where the guys had agreed two shots earlier a ball was frozen that since he didn't call it before THAT shot, you could go ahead and pretend that you didn't know it was frozen...

HMMMM... It wasn't Shane in that thread and I still stood up for the honorable gentlemanly thing there too...go figure...

Jaden

I didn't reply in that thread but I agree with you on the one pocket thread. It was called frozen so it is frozen until another ball contacts it. It is the same thing with telling an opponent he is on two either after he commits second foul or before he comes to the table for his next attempt to make a good hit. It shouldn't matter at what point you tell him he is on two fouls because you told your opponent.

 

[Neil]

Dude, what is up with your reading comprehension...What about "my question is whether or not it WAS explicitly stated that all ten balls must be called" do you not understand?

There has STILL not been a definitive answer to that question.

It has been stated that they were told that they were playing by WPA rules, which I pointed out DO NOT require obvious shots to be called and those rules only allow for questionable shots to be clarified BEFORE the shot is taken.

If I was playing in the tournament and they told me we were playing by WPA rules and THEN told me that a straight in ten ball that I successfully make was a foul because I didn't CALL IT????

That would be unacceptable to me.

Jaden

Yep, I'll use chickenshit as often as it applies and when people can't be honorable gentlemen, then it applies. Kinda funny. I was playing the final match of tap for the session last night and I asked the team captain if he had heard what happened to Shane. He said he saw it. He doesn't frequent this forum at all and his exact words to me were, that was a chickenshit move...

Jaden, in the other thread about Biado and PulPul, it is clear that the rule is that the ten must be called.

As to the chichenshit move part... if your opponent accidentally touched the cb during address at the cb, but did not move it. would you consider that a ball in hand foul for you? If your answer is yes, then it has to be because that is the rule. Or would you take the "honorable" position and tell him to go ahead and shoot anyways because it didn't affect the shot at hand at all? Would you say it is a nitty to call someone on touching the cb at address if it only moves a tiny bit , and that tiny bit doesn't affect the outcome of the shot at hand at all?

 

[Bob Jewett]

The Ref just called a foul on Biado for not calling the 10 ball in hill hill match. That was about 3-4" from the pocket. The 10 ball should be spotted but the Ref moved the cue ball.

Sometimes it's hard to find good help. Including the TD.

 

[jojopiff]

If you want to word it in a way that suits your side of the argument, fine, then yes I would.

Now if we're playing that game, would you accept a win in a game that your opponent made the ball in the obviously intended pocket. Remember, no caveats allowed. Yes or no only, it's the game you've decided is the best way to get to the answer.

Suits my side of the argument? Watch the match. Ronnie either tapped the pocket with his cue or pointed at the pocket with his cue in every single game that he won. Ronnie won the first game and did this while looking directly at the ref. Why would he do this if it wasn't a rule for that tournament? You never see him call the pocket before shooting in other 10 ball tournaments when it isn't a rule. True or false?

I would feel bad for my opponent but YES I would accept the win. If I am calling the ball as per the rules then I expect my opponent to do the same if I neglect to call it. I said earlier I lost a game at APA Nationals due to this and I did not blame my opponent because it is a rule in the APA. I don't complain about whether the rule is fair or not. I chose to play in that league so I played by the rules they used. It is pretty black and white.

This is a whole lot of caveats sir. The point of my statement is that, to word it in the manner in which you did, and then I in return did(which you answered, but in a 2 paragraph filled caveat), is unfair to either side of the argument because there are caveats in play here. It's not black and white as you're attempting to make it be.

IMO, there is plenty of blame to go around. Shane should have known the rules (if in fact they were modified WPA rules) and called the 10, Alcano acted unsportsmanlike (IMO) in that there was no advantage gained and no cheating took place, ref should've called the foul the first time it occured, not the 2nd, 5th, or 12th.

 

[Jaden]

I've known people who do this and I've done it.

Suits my side of the argument? Watch the match. Ronnie either tapped the pocket with his cue or pointed at the pocket with his cue in every single game that he won. Ronnie won the first game and did this while looking directly at the ref. Why would he do this if it wasn't a rule for that tournament? You never see him call the pocket before shooting in other 10 ball tournaments when it isn't a rule. True or false?

I would feel bad for my opponent but YES I would accept the win. If I am calling the ball as per the rules then I expect my opponent to do the same if I neglect to call it. I said earlier I lost a game at APA Nationals due to this and I did not blame my opponent because it is a rule in the APA. I don't complain about whether the rule is fair or not. I chose to play in that league so I played by the rules they used. It is pretty black and white.

Sometimes I will call every shot or at least point to the pocket, it's just a rhythm that you get into, it doesn't mean it's required to do it.

Jaden