Wpa open letter

P

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
AN OPEN LETTER TO IAN ANDERSON, WPA President
We have been good friends or many years and I know just how hard you work to keep the game alive. You are a good man (honest and conscientious) and I have supported you for many years now. So it is with a heavy heart that I take this action in criticising you.
But what has happened in Qatar this week is kind of a watershed. For what is the flagship tournament of our game to go ahead with no international TV coverage is a travesty and with the announcement about this lack of coverage to be made public only after the tournament had started is even more ludicrous.
Why was this scenario not taken care of many months ago and an alternative plan put in place.
A World Championship in any sport is the pinnacle of the competitors year and to have their efforts and achievements not made visible to the world makes staging the competition just a complete waste of time and not worthwhile holding.
I know nothing is as clear cut as it seems but this is a basic promotional necessity. I know sponsors are not beating a path to your door. But notwithstanding that I feel that you have been setting tha bar too low in dealing with potential sponsors and in doing so you are not getting the respect tat is commensurate with the effort that you put in.
Another issue that needs addressing is a WPA Players Individual Membership. You have the support of the majority of the top players but it is only lukewarm. They need to be enfranchised and have more of a say than some of the obscure (and irrelevant ) officials who have populated the WPA Board since it’s inception. You have agreed with me many times in the past about the need for this membership category. But your back burner must be getting burnt out.
The WPA is not serving the game well and you could compare it to an old jalopy. You are in the driving seat but the engine is missing and the fuel tank is empty.
If the vehicle cannot be serviced then maybe it is time for the Wrecking Yard.
 
I'm bumping this till everybody on AZ reads it.

Can Qatar lose their right to host this tournament till 2019.....
....it'd be interesting to see the wording on the contract with the WPA....
...Hopefully the terms are not a one-way street.
 
Wonder how many WPA board members are at Qatar? I think the U.S Open 9B gets one...if their lucky. So far the promoter can just about do what he/she wants, as long as the right % is given to the WPA. This no live coverage, PPV or free of the World 9 Ball takes the cake. Money talks and tournaments move for the highest bidder. A 12 YO could manage pool better than the WPA. Johnnyt
 
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Johnnyt said:
Wonder how many WPA board members are at Qatar? I think the U.S Open 9B gets one...if their lucky. So far the promoter can just about do what he/she wants, as long as the right % is given to the WPA. This no live coverage, PPV or free of the World 9 Ball takes the cake. This tournament should have NEVER left Canada. Money talks and tournaments move for the highest bidder. A 12 YO could manage pool better than the WPA. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Johnny, I made the same mistake tonight in a private conversation with a friend.

This is NOT the tournament Canada lost....it was the World EIGHT Ball Championship
...it went to China on a more lucrative offer.
The way I heard it is that the Corner Bank allowed it to go to China for the good of the game.


But I'm hoping that the WPA has some power over Qatar in how things are managed.
 
Even if just a TV table were covered it would be better then nothing at all. Supposedly Kazoom could not agree to the contract due to the number of users online and bandwidth. They didn't want to have a crash and could not guarantee that happening from what I understand. They deliver a great product so that makes sense. I think single table though would have been the way to go even though we are all spoiled by the multi table.
 
pro9dg said:
AN OPEN LETTER TO IAN ANDERSON, WPA President
We have been good friends or many years and I know just how hard you work to keep the game alive. You are a good man (honest and conscientious) and I have supported you for many years now. So it is with a heavy heart that I take this action in criticising you.
But what has happened in Qatar this week is kind of a watershed. For what is the flagship tournament of our game to go ahead with no international TV coverage is a travesty and with the announcement about this lack of coverage to be made public only after the tournament had started is even more ludicrous.
Why was this scenario not taken care of many months ago and an alternative plan put in place.
A World Championship in any sport is the pinnacle of the competitors year and to have their efforts and achievements not made visible to the world makes staging the competition just a complete waste of time and not worthwhile holding.
I know nothing is as clear cut as it seems but this is a basic promotional necessity. I know sponsors are not beating a path to your door. But notwithstanding that I feel that you have been setting tha bar too low in dealing with potential sponsors and in doing so you are not getting the respect tat is commensurate with the effort that you put in.
Another issue that needs addressing is a WPA Players Individual Membership. You have the support of the majority of the top players but it is only lukewarm. They need to be enfranchised and have more of a say than some of the obscure (and irrelevant ) officials who have populated the WPA Board since it’s inception. You have agreed with me many times in the past about the need for this membership category. But your back burner must be getting burnt out.
The WPA is not serving the game well and you could compare it to an old jalopy. You are in the driving seat but the engine is missing and the fuel tank is empty.
If the vehicle cannot be serviced then maybe it is time for the Wrecking Yard.
Click to expand...

Well, I have mentioned the disappointment of the WPA support of the game on this forum for many years, and it fell on deaf ears as well as those defending the how wonderful WPA is, how much it is needed.

First, it was the BCA getting rid of the leagues. Then they seemed to drop professional pool like a hot potato. They no longer have the BCA Open (invitational) tournament.

The women's professional pool in the U.S. used to be healthy, but they, too, are now suffering.

I have been disappointed in the state of the game for a long while. Frankly, I've given up hope. Maybe 5 people in the world can eke a living out of pool, but the rest of the players must have someone else enabling them to pursue their passion.

The money payouts are sad, as you must win, place, or show to break even for expenses and for previous competition expenses where one did not break even. So even if you win, you're still pretty stuck.

I would love to see something happen, but I realize that pool is dying a slow and ugly death. I feel very bad for those good men and women who have placed all their eggs in one basket with pool. When they can't run a rack or win tournament anymore, the reality of what we are writing in 2016 in this thread will smack them in the face, sad to say.
 
The scary thing is if Qatar doesnt host, will that be the end of the World 9b tourney?

Who else is willing to fork out the added money to host a tier 1 event?
 
pt109 said:
Johnny, I made the same mistake tonight in a private conversation with a friend.

This is NOT the tournament Canada lost....it was the World EIGHT Ball Championship
...it went to China on a more lucrative offer.
The way I heard it is that the Corner Bank allowed it to go to China for the good of the game.


But I'm hoping that the WPA has some power over Qatar in how things are managed.
Click to expand...

Thanks for catching that for me. Johnnyt
 
pro9dg said:
AN OPEN LETTER TO IAN ANDERSON, WPA President
We have been good friends or many years and I know just how hard you work to keep the game alive. You are a good man (honest and conscientious) and I have supported you for many years now. So it is with a heavy heart that I take this action in criticising you.
But what has happened in Qatar this week is kind of a watershed. For what is the flagship tournament of our game to go ahead with no international TV coverage is a travesty and with the announcement about this lack of coverage to be made public only after the tournament had started is even more ludicrous.
Why was this scenario not taken care of many months ago and an alternative plan put in place.
A World Championship in any sport is the pinnacle of the competitors year and to have their efforts and achievements not made visible to the world makes staging the competition just a complete waste of time and not worthwhile holding.
I know nothing is as clear cut as it seems but this is a basic promotional necessity. I know sponsors are not beating a path to your door. But notwithstanding that I feel that you have been setting tha bar too low in dealing with potential sponsors and in doing so you are not getting the respect tat is commensurate with the effort that you put in.
Another issue that needs addressing is a WPA Players Individual Membership. You have the support of the majority of the top players but it is only lukewarm. They need to be enfranchised and have more of a say than some of the obscure (and irrelevant ) officials who have populated the WPA Board since it’s inception. You have agreed with me many times in the past about the need for this membership category. But your back burner must be getting burnt out.
The WPA is not serving the game well and you could compare it to an old jalopy. You are in the driving seat but the engine is missing and the fuel tank is empty.
If the vehicle cannot be serviced then maybe it is time for the Wrecking Yard.
Click to expand...

Since Ian Anderson is NOT my friend, I'll say it: he is an incompetent and I'm pretty much doubting he's working hard for pool. The WPA, ever since Qatar got involved, all they do is chewing on whatever money the Qatari are willing to spend on pool and the fact that the WPA even moved their headquarters there is a strong indication of that. Just stop for a moment and think: during the entire pool season, is there a moment the WPA makes its presence strong and loud, like World Snooker does during the WC, UK Ch. and Masters? None! What is WPA doing during 365 days of the year is a mystery to every pool fan and pro player in the world. How many people in pool know what Ian Anderson even looks like? Compare that with Barry Hearn and you get the picture. WPA is simply inexistent and a ghost federation that is draining money from pool. Just look at their site, no comnunication at all, totally outdated, laziness at its best.

Last but not least. The pros have a HUGE responsibility over this matter. Their passive attitude doesn't do this dying game any favors. This WC was one to boycott from the players elite. They've learned about the stream issue just like the rest of us, no extra info for them. That's because they NEVER asked or cared, all they care about is the prize money and their pockets. Their share of what the game has become is huge and totally unacceptable.
 
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Looks like they will have a stream for final 64 :happydance::happydance:

I just saw Jayson Shaw's post on Facebook he plays Ko Pin Yi 10 am Qatar time

Capture.JPG
 
pro9dg said:
AN OPEN LETTER TO IAN ANDERSON, WPA President
We have been good friends or many years and I know just how hard you work to keep the game alive. You are a good man (honest and conscientious) and I have supported you for many years now. So it is with a heavy heart that I take this action in criticising you.
But what has happened in Qatar this week is kind of a watershed. For what is the flagship tournament of our game to go ahead with no international TV coverage is a travesty and with the announcement about this lack of coverage to be made public only after the tournament had started is even more ludicrous.
Why was this scenario not taken care of many months ago and an alternative plan put in place.
A World Championship in any sport is the pinnacle of the competitors year and to have their efforts and achievements not made visible to the world makes staging the competition just a complete waste of time and not worthwhile holding.
I know nothing is as clear cut as it seems but this is a basic promotional necessity. I know sponsors are not beating a path to your door. But notwithstanding that I feel that you have been setting tha bar too low in dealing with potential sponsors and in doing so you are not getting the respect tat is commensurate with the effort that you put in.
Another issue that needs addressing is a WPA Players Individual Membership. You have the support of the majority of the top players but it is only lukewarm. They need to be enfranchised and have more of a say than some of the obscure (and irrelevant ) officials who have populated the WPA Board since it’s inception. You have agreed with me many times in the past about the need for this membership category. But your back burner must be getting burnt out.
The WPA is not serving the game well and you could compare it to an old jalopy. You are in the driving seat but the engine is missing and the fuel tank is empty.
If the vehicle cannot be serviced then maybe it is time for the Wrecking Yard.
Click to expand...

You missed what is perhaps their biggest failure of all. The failure to protect the players. To my knowledge they have no real process in place to make sure that the players get paid in a timely manner, or even get paid at all for that matter.

I am of the opinion that if a tournament is being billed as having X amount guaranteed, then that X amount needs to be put in protected escrow in advance. There are only two reasons not to escrow the guaranteed payment amount. Either you don't have it, or you have it but want to have the ability to not pay it if you choose. In either case the money is clearly anything but guaranteed. A tournament should not be allowed to advertise guaranteed funds unless they are truly guaranteed which means they can be escrowed in advance.

Some would argue "but they hope to come up with the guaranteed funds through gate or upgraded seating sales, or hope to come up with it through food and drink sales, or hope to secure enough paying vendors, or hope to get enough sponsors, etc". The key word there is hope. Hope is far cry from guaranteed. In fact it is the opposite. By definition you simply can't guarantee something you hope for but have little control over. Again, if the money is really guaranteed, you can post it. If you can't post it then it isn't guaranteed, it is just hoped for. And if it isn't guaranteed, then you shouldn't be lying and advertising it as guaranteed, nor should the WPA be allowing that.

But maybe the WPA doesn't want to go that route of putting the processes in place to guarantee the players will actually get paid what was guaranteed, and in a timely manner. Fair enough, there are some half reasonable arguments for going that route. But when you have a promoter with a tainted track record, such as Barry Behrman had for many, many, years, you absolutely must do something in that case. And not after many years of them having payment problems but after the very first payment problem. To my knowledge, until this past year, the WPA never did anything of any significance (and certainly nothing significant enough to work--that much certainly can't be debated) to protect the players from Barry's horrible business practices and payment problems. And it seems that they only did something this past year because of the intense and vocal uproar and pressure from the public. Otherwise they wouldn't have done anything yet again, just like they never did anything about it all the years before that.

It makes it seem like the WPA just doesn't care about much except for getting their sanctioning fee. They aren't willing to put their foot down on anything, even something as basic and important as protecting the players, if there is any risk the promoter may choose not to sanction and the WPA looses out on that fee. It seems as if the WPA will do anything it takes to save their sanctioning fee even if it requires caving in to the promoter on things they should never be caving in on. If the WPA isn't willing to stand firm on their principles, and their obligations, and for the good of the game, then what good are they really at the end of the day?

Which brings up the final point. Exactly what substantial purpose and benefit does the WPA and WPA sanctioning serve? There are some token and very minor benefits, but do they serve any important purpose that makes things substantially better for the players, the promoters, the fans, or the game? I can't think of anything substantial. They certainly don't protect or help the players--that much they have proven over a long period of time. I can't see any way that they substantially help the fans or the promoters or the game either. I would love to hear just what they do that is of any substantial benefit, and preferably straight from the WPA themselves in this thread or at the very least by press release.
 
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gxman said:
The scary thing is if Qatar doesnt host, will that be the end of the World 9b tourney?

Who else is willing to fork out the added money to host a tier 1 event?
Click to expand...

There is a huge cultural difference in the thinking of Qataris and the Westerners.

Over there the countries that play the game are very competitive, always trying to outdo each other. A couple of stories that made me laugh. When Dubai wanted to build the iconic Burj Al Arab building, the architect pointed out that the initial rough specification did not include any dimensions.
"How high do you want it to be?"
"Just high enough so they can see the top of it from Abu Dhabi."

One prominent Sheik ordered a new private jet which seated six people. His closest rival ordered one with seven seats but before delivery he took two seats out to make way for another bedroom.
So Qatar want the World Championship as a status symbol and are not too bothered as long as the rest of the Middle East can catch it on the Al Jazeera or Al Kass networks.
When the Qatar Federation held their first international event they invited me to act as an overseer/consultant. But they did great job and I hardly needed to do a thing.

When we talked afterwards they were enthused about making it an annual event. and over the next three years they would put up $300,000 then $600,000 rising in the third year to $750,000. They wanted to create a new event to be sanctioned by the WPA so that it would carry ranking point.

A few weeks later I heard that instead of a brand new cash rich tournament they were offered the World 9 Ball for less than $200,000 The rest is history
 
Poolplaya9 said:
... Which brings up the final point. Exactly what substantial purpose and benefit does the WPA and WPA sanctioning serve? There are some token and very minor benefits, but do they serve any important purpose that makes things substantially better for the players, the promoters, the fans, or the game? I can't think of anything substantial. They certainly don't protect or help the players--that much they have proven over a long period of time. I can't see any way that they substantially help the fans or the promoters or the game either. I would love to hear just what they do that is of any substantial benefit, and preferably straight from the WPA themselves in this thread or at the very least by press release.
Click to expand...

In case you have not seen it, here is the WPA's Tournament Sanctioning Catalogue (as of 7 years ago): http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/tournament_sanctioning_catalogue
 
AtLarge said:
In case you have not seen it, here is the WPA's Tournament Sanctioning Catalogue (as of 7 years ago): http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/tournament_sanctioning_catalogue
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I last read that page about 1.5 years ago. I do not remember the escrow wording to have been in there at that time (that new promoters or any promoter who has ever slow paid would have to escrow the prize fund 45 days in advance) and believe that wording was added since then. It if was already in there then they certainly weren't enforcing it.

I still don't see what real value the WPA adds for the players, promoters, fans, or the game. Their fee is pretty large, and as a result there is substantially less money in the prize fund. So obviously there needs to be some pretty good benefits from that sanctioning. But are there? What value are the players, fans, promoters, and the game getting from this sanctioning? Little that I can see. Certainly not enough to justify the large fees.

So the WPA guarantees that no two WPA sanctioned events will be allowed to have the same dates. Big deal. There aren't but a handful of big WPA sanctioned events anyway and it is easy enough to steer clear of them on your own. If your event is big enough, a WPA representative might attend the event (but the promoter might have to pay their accommodations). So some WPA representative sits around the tournament for a few days and does basically nothing, and largely at the promoters expense. Sounds like a deal huh? The WPA notifies its members of a WPA sanctioned event. You could have made more people aware of the event worldwide just by posting about it on AzBilliards. Not a big deal. The WPA has a ranking points system. Big deal. So does FargoRate, and FargoRate does it better. There are several other ranking systems out there too. WPA's ranking is near meaningless and useless. If a WPA sanctioned event is to have referees, the WPA will pay one third of the cost of the referees. Of course they likely just raise the cost of their sanction fee for that event enough to cover what their one third of the referees will be so the promoter probably more or less pays for it either way.

Those are the "major" WPA benefits in a nutshell. Is is worth giving up a significant portion of a prize fund for those benefits? I can't see how it is. To know how much value and benefit the WPA adds to the sport all you really have to do is ask yourself this question. If the WPA disappeared tomorrow, would the game, or the players, or the fans, or the promoters suffer or be greatly affected? I say it wouldn't make much difference at all. In fact almost nobody would even notice any difference whatsoever except that the letters "WPA" would no longer be showing up in event titles. Prize funds would be a bit larger though (because those large sanction fees would go back into the purse).

For the WPA to ever become relevant and meaningful they are going to have to add value--real value, noticeable value, actual value--to the game and for the players, fans, and promoters. Right now I just don't see any significant and real value. And real value has to, just absolutely has to, start with protecting the integrity of events. And protecting the integrity of events has to include having systems in place that guarantee that players are promptly paid in full and that events are run with integrity.

I am very open to the idea that maybe I am missing something and I welcome the WPA (or anyone else) explaining what real value and benefit they add to the pool world that we would dearly miss if we didn't have them.
 
I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the "hard work for pool" that WPA is supposedly doing! A WPC without even stream coverage is not even a travesty, it's a full blown scandal and a new low point for pool! HOW THE HELL DID THIS HAPPEN!? If this were ANY other sport, there would have been riots in the street, but we pool fans are used to bending over and taking it. I say: ENOUGH! Time for a new pool organization.

We all get it, there is no money in pool. Everybody knows that, and Quatar has a lot of money to throw at things like this, but when you decide to hold the tournament in such a remote location, with a minimal pool scene, and with no coverage, you are basically turning the WPC into a non existing event. Not to speak about Quatars questionable human rights record...

The WPA has made damned sure about the minimum price money etc...I wonder what their motive for this has been? It certainly hasn't been for the promotion of professional pool. If a proper governing body should someday arise, maybe you could compromise a little on the price money and hold major events somewhere where the people actually care about pool, like China, the Phillipines, Japan or even the US. Watching the great, empty airplane hangar without any crowd what so ever in the years past was just sad, but at least we got to see it. Now we don't even get that...The whole event has been made invisible, and thus completely pointless. Is this the way forward for pool?
 
Not to totally disagree with u but to me the fact that there is at least one unified body of whatever,authority,gov, etc helps in the sense that it has the capacity to expand and become actually worldwide. As of now the value might not be there financially but as a sport the pool world needs people United and ultimately organizing: I think we should be grateful that there's something out there that could grow into a series of events ran by the same people much like a tour. The wpa has the potential to be that. I don't know if they will but they have the ability to get there. And yes they take fees but if people are putting time thought and effort into something they deserve to be paid.

I'm not disagreeing with ur arguement and people need to question and look into things much like your doing because if not governing body's can take advantage. However having some pool minded organization is better than none, and again hopefully they use the fees advantageously and grow themselves in order to grow the sport as a whole. I personally would love official tournaments and titles and sponsors and without organization it will never become more than what it has been which is tournaments all over the place battling each other for participants instead of working with each other. My hope is that pool becomes as professionalized as every other sport and the pros can be looked upon with admiration but we have a lot of work to do and again hopefully someday the wpa or any other organization can help us achieve those things
 
AtLarge said:
In case you have not seen it, here is the WPA's Tournament Sanctioning Catalogue (as of 7 years ago): http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/tournament_sanctioning_catalogue
Click to expand...

This brochure is laughable. It is worth going it alone as any promoter in this current environment. And points? Seriously, who gives a damn? Are these points for the mosconi cup? That event only pays out 10k to each member of the winning team and 5k to each member of the losing team, no? Why bother for such small amounts given the effort required of the player? The WPA is worthless.
 
I've said the WPA is worthless for at least 3 years. Why any promoter would pay their sanctioning fee is beyond me.
 
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