WPBL Brings up Allegations of Fraud

The contractor had his license revoked due to previous accounts of fraud. How on earth can you commit to spending over 6-figs with a company and not know if there are charges against them?

Look, if you have a leaky roof or need to hire a plumber for a leaky faucet-- I can see not grinding on due-diligence, etc. But for $100k+, the press release shows an inherent weakness in who is pulling the trigger with the budget.

Sorry--- I'm a supporter and all--- but that's a green-ass move. Don't get pissed, don't hate, don't knock Spidey---- just learn from the greenness and come out the other side as black and cold as an anthrax ulcer.
 
This is great press!!! TAKE ADVANTAGE!!!

NEW POOL TOUR OWNER HUSTLED BY CONTRACTORS IN LAS VEGAS

This should be forwarded to every news wire on Earth. You cannot pay for a story like this...GREAT PRESS!!!

Just wondering...aren't permits supposed to be hanging in the front of the structure as of day 1. As soon as the project began? We're the contractors saying stuff to him like:

"I haven't constructed anything in months"

"My construction game is at least two hammers off right now"

"No, permits are displayed in the basement with no light to keep them from fading in the Las Vegas sun"

"i lost the key to the basement door, and I need to file for another permit before I can demolish the basement door"

"The glass display case usually hanging in the front? This is Las Vegas, the glass in the intense desert heat acts as a magnifying glass and is a fire hazzard to permits"

"I posted the permits on the light, I went to the bathroom, now the permits are missing?"

"These cameras cost $600,000....you think you would have one of them on to watch the permits on the light"

"I put the permits in my jacket, my jacket was on that chair right there...WHO TOOK MY JACKET?"
 
Someone said the other day they give it 3months and then it would die....i REALLY didnt believe them but dang....
 
really

SpiderWebComm said:
Cause they're not triple smart. They're triple smart at pool, but most are triple-retarded when it comes to business. Not that it's they're fault nor are they expected to be triple-smart in business. It's just that they didn't practice business smarts as much as drawing their rock.
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to say the pros are not triple smart at business is fair but to say most are retarded i think is going a little far.
ive always liked you and really didnt expect a jab like that from you about my peers etc.
i watch u play pool and you are not triple smart at it but i would never say you are retarded.
 
ooch

john schmidt said:
to say the pros are not triple smart at business is fair but to say most are retarded i think is going a little far.
ive always liked you and really didnt expect a jab like that from you about my peers etc.
i watch u play pool and you are not triple smart at it but i would never say you are retarded.
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I have to agree with John. Web, That was a little harsh
 
Has Nathan claimed the $50 reward yet for naming the contractor? Or maybe any of the 36 BB Pros saw the name on a work truck(s), employees T shirt, or the permit that was on the front door and could tell Jerry the name of the company?
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
AZBilliards will pay $50 for the first person who gives us the correct contact info (name, address, phone number) for this contractor. And we will call him right up. Should be interesting.
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I understand seeing both sides of the story, but the Nevada board of contractors shows them guilty of fraud from two past incidents. This is not a matter of opinion. It's fact provided by the state.

If Jerry does get the name, then call the Nevada board of contractors. That should be all the verification you need.

Why interview someone who is guilty of committing fraud? They'll just lie and push thier guilt on the wpbl. This isn't a silly reality show for entertainment. Larry is out serious money here, and players are stuck waiting on a million dollar payout. Nothing good can come from this.

EDIT: Pardon me, only one of thier two infractions is for fraud. Not sure the details of the other.
 
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Nathan was on site from the beginning and informed me that he personally fired the first sprinkler system firm that was the supposed to be the cause of most of this delay. Both Nathan and I questioned what the hell was going on. However, neither of us knew the details, this was not our department. When I came down in January, the place was still in shambles and the so called sprinkler systems were still unfinished. It was the first question I asked of the contractor. He fed me a long line of bullshit that an experienced electrical contractor like myself, saw red flags!

I informed Larry to get back to Las Vegas and get to the bottom of this mess! This contractor was good! He had lies for everything including fake phone calls. I feel sorry for Larry for being so trustful and yes, he has paid a price big time for this! This contractor was as slick as I have ever seen. He even continued to lie when caught! He probably is still lying, to himself! I can hardley imagine what truth Jerry Forsythe will get out of him. I suggest looking under a rock Jerry. You may be able to find him there.

The state of Nevada Contractor Board assured us this company president is looking at jail time and will never work in Nevada again. That may hold true for the electricians and plumbers that have joined in on this scam. All firms involved have been documented and it is beyond my believe that all this has happened. Being a former electrical contractor, I find it hard to believe how four different sub-trades could have all done work for this guy without the necessary permits. It is incrediable but it is true. This company lost it's contracting license two weeks after taking on this project. It looks like to me this guy has conned more than just Larry. There are other sub-trades that have all been put in jepordy!

I hope for Larry, Nathan (Runout media crew) and the professional players that this is sorted out very quickly! If you told me any contractor would take this con as far as he did, I'd never have believed it! Larry has insisted on bearing the blame for not seeing past this scam but nobody could have suspected any of this! Who in their right mind have even sub-trades come in and become part of this insanity. Nobody needs to lecture Larry about this mess. Jerry, simply call Larry and ask him the company that did this to him. Interviewing this rodent would be a waste of time! I don't think any words that have come out of his mouth hold any truth.
 
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How much of the work was really done? How much of the material is on site? Is the work if any that was done without the proper permits allowed to remain or does it have to be demolished? Was there no one on site that ever worked with construction before to see that things weren't progressing at a normal rate? I feel bad for you guys as a fellow Canadian electrical contractor maybe you should have been site superintendant for this project maybe it wouldnt have derailed as bad.
 
Oh hell, a lot of the structure is complete and so is most of the electrical and the plumbing. I know the electrical is done properly, I can see that since I am an electrician. However, none of the main lines were pulled to the sub panels...red flag! His excuse was that they never do that in Las Vegas until final inspection! He said they did not want thieves stealing the wire!? LOL ! I certainly didn't buy that! If thieves broke in to the building, they would probably rather steal the cameras!

This is what threw everyone off! What contractor would lie about permits and bring in sub-trades to do work without an original permit. Beyond me how he conned the sub-trades too. Everything seemed to be going by the book. It was the ridiculous delays that red flagged this project. Luckily, nothing is covered up so the new contractor can get his inspections and close this project up. Larry had professional plans drawn up and all the work performed looks first rate....I don't believe the county will have a problem letting someone finish off this studio!

On the flip side, all county business permits were looked after by another entity and Larry has all his ducks in order there. That will probably save his ass with the county. The problems of this contractor should be over come. It is a very expensive lesson for Larry to learn! You need to indeed have a project manager on site all the time. Im sure he assumed that the contractor was not going to do something like this! It was simply building a new studio and washrooms! This was not as if he was building the whole dam venue! I hope anyone else reading this learns that if you are not experienced in building things, you better have someone who is watching the project!

Besides the construction delays, Nathan and the players are going to have a hell of a show for you and it will happen this year! I'm very excited about that! I have players coming in off the street playing Bonus Ball and I see a great future ahead for all billiards. My main focus continues to be working on the amateur leagues and I will continue to work on this. League delay or not!

Hang tough Larry, we are still cheering you on!
 
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john schmidt said:
to say the pros are not triple smart at business is fair but to say most are retarded i think is going a little far.
ive always liked you and really didnt expect a jab like that from you about my peers etc.
i watch u play pool and you are not triple smart at it but i would never say you are retarded.
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All (or most) of you are triple smart at spotting people putting moves down on you and thinking outside the box. I agree with that. But I understand as well what they're saying about not so triple smart in business, I just have a different perspective. I've seen it with the PBT, the Camel Tour, IPT, that tourney in Texas, Bonus Ball, etc... but you guys do put up blinders of sorts wishing for things to finally work out for once. I can't fault that and understand it.... You guys all just want to be able to make a living doing what you're best at and want a future in doing it. It just sucks that someone with the foresight, knowledge, and money doesn't come along and make it really happen for once.
 
vpbb123 said:
Nathan was on site from the beginning and informed me that he personally fired the first sprinkler system firm that was the supposed to be the cause of most of this delay. Both Nathan and I questioned what the hell was going on. However, neither of us knew the details, this was not our department. When I came down in January, the place was still in shambles and the so called sprinkler systems were still unfinished. It was the first question I asked of the contractor. He fed me a long line of bullshit that an experienced electrical contractor like myself, saw red flags!

I informed Larry to get back to Las Vegas and get to the bottom of this mess! This contractor was good! He had lies for everything including fake phone calls. I feel sorry for Larry for being so trustful and yes, he has paid a price big time for this! This contractor was as slick as I have ever seen. He even continued to lie when caught! He probably is still lying, to himself! I can hardley imagine what truth Jerry Forsythe will get out of him. I suggest looking under a rock Jerry. You may be able to find him there.

The state of Nevada Contractor Board assured us this company president is looking at jail time and will never work in Nevada again. That may hold true for the electricians and plumbers that have joined in on this scam. All firms involved have been documented and it is beyond my believe that all this has happened. Being a former electrical contractor, I find it hard to believe how four different sub-trades could have all done work for this guy without the necessary permits. It is incrediable but it is true. This company lost it's contracting license two weeks after taking on this project. It looks like to me this guy has conned more than just Larry. There are other sub-trades that have all been put in jepordy!

I hope for Larry, Nathan (Runout media crew) and the professional players that this is sorted out very quickly! If you told me any contractor would take this con as far as he did, I'd never have believed it! Larry has insisted on bearing the blame for not seeing past this scam but nobody could have suspected any of this! Who in their right mind have even sub-trades come in and become part of this insanity. Nobody needs to lecture Larry about this mess. Jerry, simply call Larry and ask him the company that did this to him. Interviewing this rodent would be a waste of time! I don't think any words that have come out of his mouth hold any truth.
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A word to the wise, I learned this lesson many years ago when apprenticing in New York watching major buildings going up. The investors/builders of these projects had someone on hand daily (the general manager) who worked closely with all the contractors to make sure everything was kosher and on schedule. He examined all work and all billings. I worked and studied under a man named Al Diregardi, who I will never forget. He knew more about the building trades than anyone on the job.

I went with Al to the site of these jobs every day and watched him get updates from the contractors. We took those crew elevators (on the outside of the building) up as high as forty or fifty floors and walked out onto open floors with no side walls in place. Al would walk right over to the edge and peer down to see what was going on. I wouldn't go close to the edge! Al even had to deal with the mob guys who controlled the unions. Yes, they got their juice, usually about 10%. It was the cost of doing business in New York in the 60's. Most (if not all) of those high rises you see on the New York skyline have similar stories to tell about their construction.

P.S. After work was over at 5 (I couldn't wait), it was straight to 7/11 or Guys and Dolls, where I would hang until 2 or 3 AM. I would usually walk home (no buses running then), maybe two or three miles, sleep a few hours and be back at work the next day at 8:30 or 9 AM. This was my schedule for months (catching up with my sleep on the weekend), until I got the call to visit Ft. Polk, LA, the hellhole of the South. This was in 1967.

I hated Ft. Polk because there was no chance to play pool. I didn't get off base until my basic training was over (eight weeks). My first paycheck was $99, for one month! I was at the bottom of the pay grade. I cashed my check and went into town (Leesville) and found it crawling with bars, and Eight Ball games! It reminded me of Lawton, OK from a few years before. But I was a better player now, and played all night Friday and Saturday and came back to base with maybe $150 or 200 in my jeans, at a dollar a game. From then on I lived in Leesville every weekend. I left there in late 1967, with close to $1,000 and headed straight for Johnston City. I got relieved of much of my earnings by my old buddies who were so glad to see me again. I drove back to Dayton after it was over nearly broke, but maybe a little wiser. :embarrassed2:
 
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Four valuable tips when entering a medium to large construction contract.

1) With jobs utilizing a architect or engineer, part of their contract should include the overseeing of the construction/installation.

2) Use an AIA (American Institute Of Architects) contract, where possible.

3) For larger jobs especially consider including a "performance bond".

4) Hire a attorney with experience in construction contracts, not a hack.

J
 
jimmyg said:
Three valuable tips when entering a medium to large construction contract.

1) With jobs utilizing a architect or engineer, part of their contract should include the overseeing of the construction/installation.

2) Use an AIA (American Institute Of Architects) contract, where possible.

3) For larger jobs especially consider including a "performance bond".

J
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I have a background in construction management before I settled into my current "profession."

Architects and engineers typically are not very good at oversight and management. Many of them are just contractors like the sprinkler contractors. Even then, many buildings have an architect for the cosmetic part of the building, then several engineers for mechanical, fire protection, structural, site, etc. Sometimes and engineering firm has all of these under one company, other times they are subcontracted out. However the owner should be utilizing either a general contractor or construction management firm who should be overseeing everything. This GC or management firm is the person who reports to the owner directly, and is the one who should have the contracts for the subcontractors such as the sprinkler company. They should be the one's kicking the subcontractors in the ass when they don't have the correct permits and/or are behind.

I'm sure different parts of the country do things different. But that is generally what happens in the central east coast area.

Also, contracts should specify language such as "liquidated damages" which basically gives and actual number of revenue which will be lost each day/week/month the job is not complete after schedule.

I don't know the details, but it doesn't sound as if the proper checks and balances were put into place on this project.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
Spidey,

Just read your post and it gave me an idea. I'd really like to interview this contractor and see if he has any idea of the potential damage he has done.

AZBilliards will pay $50 for the first person who gives us the correct contact info (name, address, phone number) for this contractor. And we will call him right up. Should be interesting.

Prize goes to the person who emails (Jerry@azbilliards.com), PMs or posts the info here first. I will go with the clock in my computer that logs these things.

It's ON!





Best,
Jerry
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He comes to Cue club and sits around the Counter and that is what I was told by others. I go to cue club 6-7 days a week but I don`t sit at the counter and I don`t know who it is. cool:
 
Maybe you could borrow one of the $600K cameras from the WPBL and videotape the contractor at Cue Club for Jerry.
 
All great advice for Larry. Again, this job was simply a larger version of his first stage, a washroom and a bar! Hardly a new building or large project. I can only say that I learned something from this, right down to when hiring a contractor to build me a shit house! Be on top of your game! Check everything and definitely trust no one. I just talked to Larry and he is in touch with a new contractor and this project is going to go forward with no date set again until this project is ready to launch! Amen!
 
gypsee

vpbb123 said:
All great advice for Larry. Again, this job was simply a larger version of his first stage, a washroom and a bar! Hardly a new building or large project. I can only say that I learned something from this, right down to when hiring a contractor to build me a shit house! Be on top of your game! Check everything and definitely trust no one. I just talked to Larry and he is in touch with a new contractor and this project is going to go forward with no date set again until this project is ready to launch! Amen!
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After reading that the sub-contractors where involved. I believe larry was hussled by a gypsee organization. These groups act as one. they trade places and change names over and over. Then they move on and repeat the same scam in other cities. Hard to catch!!!! Glad to see he has a new contractor. I hope he is checking out this one!!!
 
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