WPBL PLAYERS: Free Consulting

[SpiderWebComm]

Just so this doesn't get lost in that other thread:

If a start-up company hits a point where they can't cover payroll for any reason and must have production continue without paying the employees in order to pull themselves out of it, here are some things you should know as a group:

1) If the employer can show/prove that funding is on its way (100% locked-up) either via a delayed receivable (delayed revenue) or funding, it's OK to continue working for no-pay assuming that term is very short, typically not greater than 1 or 2 pay cycles. Make sure the WPBL shows/proves this to be true.

2) If the employer cannot show/prove that funding is imminent and that you're being asked to work (play) beyond 1 or 2 pay cycles in order to support the WPBL, the sport, and build a future for yourselves, it's NOT ok for them to play "owsies" with you in exchange for the promise of a brighter future. Basically, help us CREATE THE DREAM.

This can come in the form of:

"Look around you guys -- we spent millions here! You think we're going to walk away from this? You think we're not going to succeed here? Obviously, we made some mistakes, but we're here for the long-haul. We need you to pull through this-- if you walk, all of this is money-blown and it's another black-eye for pool. If we succeed, you helped build a new tour for yourselves. Hang in there for us, for you and your families, etc, etc..." (you get the idea)

If the above is the case, there are a few things you should know:

A) The intellectual property of the WPBL is not the logo, it's not the equipment, it's not the ref or the hot chicks, it's NOT the game itself --- it's YOU, the players.

B) If you're being asked to hang in there for no-pay to give the owners a chance, you are the catalyst of success... "Mission Critical," if you would. At this point, you can renegotiate (and should) a percentage of WPBL stock that's set-aside for the players that goes beyond the back-pay they owe you. There should also be an understanding that the WPBL must be the direct recipient of customer revenue (tv networks, merchandising, ticket sales, etc) and not a 3rd party entity. Otherwise, a separate corporation could be created to collect revenue on behalf of the WPBL and funnel a smaller % back into the pool.

C) The amount of stock does not have to be valued on the amount of back-pay, it's negotiated by the future value of collected revenue (promised/projected) compared to the odds of the owners collecting it without you. Meaning, if you're going to take a chance (i.e. working with the possibility of not getting paid and your work is critical to the success of the company), it's not out-of-line to ask anywhere between 10% (short-term) to 50% (long-term) to be split among the active players who play without pay.

D) If there's a corporate structure in place with the WPBL where dividends do not have to be paid-out in proportion to stock ownership, make sure yours is.

That's about it for now. If you're playing for free, and it looks like you are, be smart and read this post about 100x and talk amongst yourselves. I'm sure your BB contracts didn't outline what happens if payment can't be made, so if that's the case you can make your own rules as a group. If you're chancing it on the front-end, reap the rewards of your sweat-equity on the back-end.

 

[Black-Balled]

Somebody needs to arm them.

But I fear any non-passive action by the players may be met with a complete shut-down...which may be just was Chiborak is hoping, at this point.

 

[Diamond69]

Great post! Hopefully word gets out to the players as many probably do not have the business knowledge in order to capitalize.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Somebody needs to arm them.

But I fear any non-passive action by the players may be met with a complete shut-down...which may be just was Chiborak is hoping, at this point.

That's better for the players than working long-haul and THEN not getting paid.

At this point, the players should force the WPBL to provide them with a contract addendum (that survives acquision/etc) where if they work without pay and the WPBL liquidates because they changed their mind and figured "EH- F-IT", the players get paid off-the-top from all equipment /asset sales (anything non-collaterilized).

^^^ I'd do this even if it's #1 from above JUST in case. If they negotiate a stock plan, the owners might say live by the sword or die by the sword - you can't have your cake and eat it too. If stock can't be negotiated for any reason, they can 100% negotiate an off-the-top for non-collateralized assets.

 

[Black-Balled]

That's better for the players than not getting paid.

At this point, the players should force the WPBL to provide them with a contract addendum (that survives acquision/etc) where if they work without pay and the WPBL liquidates because they changed their mind, the players get paid off-the-top from all equipment /asset sales (anything non-collaterilized).

I am inclined to agree, sadly...

 

[cajunfats]

Good Post

Just so this doesn't get lost in that other thread:

If a start-up company hits a point where they can't cover payroll for any reason and must have production continue without paying the employees in order to pull themselves out of it, here are some things you should know as a group:

1) If the employer can show/prove that funding is on its way (100% locked-up) either via a delayed receivable (delayed revenue) or funding, it's OK to continue working for no-pay assuming that term is very short, typically not greater than 1 or 2 pay cycles. Make sure the WPBL shows/proves this to be true.

2) If the employer cannot show/prove that funding is imminent and that you're being asked to work (play) beyond 1 or 2 pay cycles in order to support the WPBL, the sport, and build a future for yourselves, it's NOT ok for them to play "owsies" with you in exchange for the promise of a brighter future. Basically, help us CREATE THE DREAM.

This can come in the form of:

"Look around you guys -- we spent millions here! You think we're going to walk away from this? You think we're not going to succeed here? Obviously, we made some mistakes, but we're here for the long-haul. We need you to pull through this-- if you walk, all of this is money-blown and it's another black-eye for pool. If we succeed, you helped build a new tour for yourselves. Hang in there for us, for you and your families, etc, etc..." (you get the idea)

If the above is the case, there are a few things you should know:

A) The intellectual property of the WPBL is not the logo, it's not the equipment, it's not the ref or the hot chicks, it's NOT the game itself --- it's YOU, the players.

B) If you're being asked to hang in there for no-pay to give the owners a chance, you are the catalyst of success... "Mission Critical," if you would. At this point, you can renegotiate (and should) a percentage of WPBL stock that's set-aside for the players that goes beyond the back-pay they owe you. There should also be an understanding that the WPBL must be the direct recipient of customer revenue (tv networks, merchandising, ticket sales, etc) and not a 3rd party entity. Otherwise, a separate corporation could be created to collect revenue on behalf of the WPBL and funnel a smaller % back into the pool.

C) The amount of stock does not have to be valued on the amount of back-pay, it's negotiated by the future value of collected revenue (promised/projected) compared to the odds of the owners collecting it without you. Meaning, if you're going to take a chance (i.e. working with the possibility of not getting paid and your work is critical to the success of the company), it's not out-of-line to ask anywhere between 10% (short-term) to 50% (long-term) to be split among the active players who play without pay.

D) If there's a corporate structure in place with the WPBL where dividends do not have to be paid-out in proportion to stock ownership, make sure yours is.

That's about it for now. If you're playing for free, and it looks like you are, be smart and read this post about 100x and talk amongst yourselves. I'm sure your BB contracts didn't outline what happens if payment can't be made, so if that's the case you can make your own rules as a group. If you're chancing it on the front-end, reap the rewards of your sweat-equity on the back-end.

Good Post. However, I was concerned about the Free Consulting part. My fee is $2500.00 per week for consulting services, and I was hoping you weren't killing my retirement action,lol!! I need that supplemental income to cover my losses in Social Security, Friday Night Pool Money, Cue Repair, and PPV.

You have it pegged correctly, and they must adjust immediately, and make good decisions. I know exactly what it is like to take over a business that had gone over the cliff. At that point there must be minimal casualties, and acceptable losses. Having no fatalities,other than the business itself, is the outcome. Bonus Ball hasn't reached the edge of the cliff,...yet. They can recover, but it will be a challenge.

Otherwise, there won't be a second season and Justin(TAR) will have to pay his sweat bet.

I already gave Bonus Ball my Free Consulting on the Asian Market thread. From here on out,it's Retail Pricing,Baby!!

 

[nobcitypool]

The action that needs to be taken is often dictated by the available alternatives. The key here is to not become a victim of the "airplane waiting game". You know, the equipment for your booked flight is at the gate but is having some problems. They keep telling you it will be available within 30 to 60 minutes. You sit and wait while alternative flights are leaving and at the end of the day, have ran out of alternatives and are stuck.

I think part of the problem is the players wanted this to work so badly they evaluated it through rose colored glasses. A close look at the business plan and financials would have likely revealed this to be a very, very high risk at best. Anybody putting together a business plan that cannot finance cash flow through the first 6 to 12 months is being way over optimistic. That's simple business 101.

If the rumors are anywhere close to being true, this endeavor has about zero chance of succeeding. The only way I can see it surviving is if a wealthy "fanboy" steps in and finances it ignoring the profit picture. I feel very badly for the professionals but were I one of them, I would give this a very short leash were I coming out of pocket on a weekly basis to continue to play. It would appear their chances of recouping anything are very low.

 

[Black-Balled]

..The only way I can see it surviving is if a wealthy "fanboy" steps in and finances it ignoring the profit picture.

. It would appear their chances of recouping anything are very low.

Wealthy people do not "ignore the profit picture".

Any other ideas?:sorry:

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The action that needs to be taken is often dictated by the available alternatives. The key here is to not become a victim of the "airplane waiting game". You know, the equipment for your booked flight is at the gate but is having some problems. They keep telling you it will be available within 30 to 60 minutes. You sit and wait while alternative flights are leaving and at the end of the day, have ran out of alternatives and are stuck.

I think part of the problem is the players wanted this to work so badly they evaluated it through rose colored glasses. A close look at the business plan and financials would have likely revealed this to be a very, very high risk at best. Anybody putting together a business plan that cannot finance cash flow through the first 6 to 12 months is being way over optimistic. That's simple business 101.

If the rumors are anywhere close to being true, this endeavor has about zero chance of succeeding. The only way I can see it surviving is if a wealthy "fanboy" steps in and finances it ignoring the profit picture. I feel very badly for the professionals but were I one of them, I would give this a very short leash were I coming out of pocket on a weekly basis to continue to play. It would appear their chances of recouping anything are very low.

Agreed. That's why my OP should be discussed immediately among the players. If the players want representation, I'd be more than happy to help, but I'm a businessman, not a lawyer. I'd only help if Dennis Walsh or other attorney could work with me and write it up in a way that is legal and has teeth based on Nevada laws and the laws where the WPBL is incorporated. Basically, I know the moves but the execution of those varies greatly based on a number of legal variables.

 

[oldzilla]

Hey Spider !

cool avatar maybe !?




it is a microscopic look at web production !

 

[JCIN]

Otherwise, there won't be a second season and Justin(TAR) will have to pay his sweat bet.

Can you refresh my memory on this one ?

You are saying I said there would be a second season?

 

[cajunfats]

Bonus Ball/Bogus Ball Thread

Can you refresh my memory on this one ?

You are saying I said there would be a second season?

I was perusing the thread from June 1st to look for my remarks on the Asian theory, and I saw where you had laid out a friendly sweat bet for the beginning of the second season after this years championship. You mentioned looking at that as a pollyanna viewpoint,wanting them to succeed,but willing to accept if they didn't.

I wanted to use it as bit of levity in light of the current situation with BB. My not linking the quote is my error.

My apologies ,Sir! It was JB,John Barton who made the pollyanna comment and the $100.00 sweat. I must have mixed my J's up somewhere in the little grey cells. Thanks for having a better memory than me. Thank Goodness I didn't say it was Jay Helfert who said that,either. So, please accept my humble apologies.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Is BB stock projected to be worth the paper it's written on at this point?

I seriously doubt the players will get 1st position. That's surely taken by
investor(s). 2nd position probably is worthless if it folds and only the assets are sold - 1st position gets it all I'd believe.

 

[Nostroke]

I was perusing the thread from June 1st to look for my remarks on the Asian theory, and I saw where you had laid out a friendly sweat bet for the beginning of the second season after this years championship. You mentioned looking at that as a pollyanna viewpoint,wanting them to succeed,but willing to accept if they didn't.

I wanted to use it as bit of levity in light of the current situation with BB. My not linking the quote is my error.

I DO have a sweat bet or 2 and I offered ODDS there would be no season 2. Im not bragging yet but it's looking pretty good from here.

 

[Nostroke]

deleted by me

 

[StonedCEO]

Maybe now would be a good time for the players to get an honest answer on the ultra secret fool proof business plan.

I don't know anyone not on AZB that has ever even heard of Bonus Ball. So unless I missed something, the mainstream US Market is not their target. They have made it very clear that the fans of pool on AZB's is not their target.

So who is the target market? Not US general population, not US pool enthusiasts. Which leads us to the Asian Market.

The concept could be huge in Asia - different venues for each city, traveling teams, hundred's of millions of potential viewers, NETWORK and PPV.

But why would they want to watch US players, when there are so many strong Asian players available?

My theory is this whole thing was a proof of concept. Invest a few million, build a studio, hire some players, record the matches, and take the package over seas to license, or sell.

As for the US players, disposable actors to package their product.

 

[jimmyg]

Okay, here's my contribution of one piece of important (IMO) advice, if the "employees" are being asked to contribute their time without compensation but the "management" and "principles" compensation continues, or increases,.....then the company is being looted or "liquidated" and you are being exploited.

That's it.

J

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Is BB stock projected to be worth the paper it's written on at this point?

I seriously doubt the players will get 1st position. That's surely taken by
investor(s). 2nd position probably is worthless if it folds and only the assets are sold - 1st position gets it all I'd believe.

It's not really positions as much as it is the type of stock. You typically have common or preferred.

Common is the standard voting-rights stock and preferred would not be--- but preferred gets paid 1st in case of liquidation. There could be different levels of this - maybe that's what you meant.

The is all speculation because who knows how BB is setup stock-wise.

You can simply create new shares and dilute the previous shares.

So, if there are 100 shares and Larry owns 40 and the investors 60, you can create another 100 (as an example) for the players, which means Larry owns 20%, previous investors 30% and players 50%. Those %s are totally unrealistic, but they're just listed for easy math. That would be based on all common shares.

Once again, all speculation. It's just an example. "Levels" as you describe it depend on the stock type and the newer tends to be more powerful since the old is usually insolvent.

 

[Black-Balled]

Maybe now would be a good time for the players to get an honest answer on the ultra secret fool proof business plan.

I don't know anyone not on AZB that has ever even heard of Bonus Ball. So unless I missed something, the mainstream US Market is not their target. They have made it very clear that the fans of pool on AZB's is not their target.

So who is the target market? Not US general population, not US pool enthusiasts. Which leads us to the Asian Market.

The concept could be huge in Asia - different venues for each city, traveling teams, hundred's of millions of potential viewers, NETWORK and PPV.

But why would they want to watch US players, when there are so many strong Asian players available?

My theory is this whole thing was a proof of concept. Invest a few million, build a studio, hire some players, record the matches, and take the package over seas to license, or sell.

As for the US players, disposable actors to package their product.

It must be leagues that they are after. as in creation of a bb league system

like you say, other countries dont care about the US players.

 

[StonedCEO]

It must be leagues that they are after. as in creation of a bb league system

like you say, other countries dont care about the US players.

I think they just used the US players as pawns to put together a neat package to market to the Asian Market. Leagues, or otherwise, they will not make money in the US.