your opinions please...

Scott, your first clue was when he asked you to hold the check for 30 days. This is almost always a bad sign. NEVER hold checks! My experience has been that a check over one week old is just a piece of paper.

That being said, some of the suggestions about returning to the bank and trying again are valid. You can also do this by phone to verify funds.

In California it is a criminal offense to write a bad check. Period!

And yes, I would warn him first and then blast his name wherever it will hurt him the most. I guess I don't have much patience for a thief.

One last thing. The suggestion about holding a cue for collateral is not a bad one. But the time to do it is when he offered you the post dated check. That is the moment when someone is most amenable to such security issues. After the lesson, when he offered you the post dated check, you should have said no problem, I'll just hold your cue for 30 days until the check is good! Believe it or not, he might have gone for it right then. You must be firm in your position when you do this. Don't offer an alternative other than immediate payment.

I've actually had guys come into my poolroom and try to stiff me on a big bill. I have their driver's license and offer to return it for collateral until the bill is paid. I've held cues, watches and jewelry. In these cases I almost always got paid and quick! The driver's license doesn't hold as much value for people like this. They will go to the DMV and get a replacement. I take a firm stance with deadbeats, always have.
 
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write it off as a donation to charity and include it in your itemized deductions for the year 2007 income tax returns.you can`t get blood out of a Turnip.
 
If possible, hire the guy or buy something from him. When its time to pay, hand him his check.
What comes around, goes around.
Justin Nuder
 
Scott Lee said:
I would like to ask the opinions of the many posters here. I know what mine is, but I'd like to hear from others...

What would you do if you gave someone a service and they paid you with a check, and then asked you to hold it for a month. Then when the check was deposited it bounced, and the person gave you the runaround about how they had $$$ troubles and would pay you "as soon as they could". It's been FOUR MONTHS since the service was provided (and by their own admission they benefitted from the service), and the debt remains unpaid. Would you blow it off, keep trying to convince them to pay you, or sue them in small claims court? FWIW, the value of the service was $300+. MI law allows you to sue for triple damages, plus court costs...plus, IIRC bouncing a check is fraud.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Drop it... if money isn't that important to u in general, u won't even miss it. However definitely acknowledge that the person is a deadbeat, or could possibly mean that the person is not good for their word. Also, u might want to even go as far as making a public blacklist so that others are aware of their practice.
 
Who is it? Post his name here so we can be protected from him.

Kill his action.

Don't let it drop, though. Pussin' out will just encourage him to repeat his theivery and others could be hurt...one of them might be an AZer!:eek:

Post his name, number, address, speed, cue type, etc....there's no crime against that. Put it here and on your website. He asked for it, let him have it.

The time HE asked for is up.

Jeff Livingston

PS You could give him another lesson and teach him some bad habits. ;)
 
JoeW said:
Most of the replies here are good but I have heard about another way that often gets your money. Stop by his house when he or his wife is home. Pick up his cue stick (valued at $600.00) leave him a note that says you are holding as collateral until he pays the debt by xx day or you are free to sell the cue and keep the proceeds. Once you have it in your hand it is difficult for the other to come up with a reason why you should give it back.

From a business perspective, I never pursued a debt, I just let it be known the client was a debtor whose word could not be trusted. Youngstown is not all that big when it comes to business and I have had a few people come back a year later to clear their reputation with me and ask me to stop bad mouthing them.

When this happened I did and let people know that the debtor had indeed made good on their bill. If they never did make good, I just ate it, but people knew my mehtods and after a few years there were few who did not pay.

Joe... did you just tell this man to walk in this guy's house and take a pool cue.??? Are you tryin to get this man killed???......jeeeeeeeeeeeeze!!!
 
For what it's worth, I did look into this for you and actually for myself as well. I was curious after reading that law.

I spoke to a friend who is an asst. DA and asked about the check writing issue and the law of some states that deem it civil if it is a post dated situation.

Honestly, he told me, he wasn't aware of anything like that in CT off hand, but said unless there were some "admitted" (by you) prior arrangement made to accept a post dated check, the mere accepting of it in lieu of what you expected was not in his mind an arrangement. He also said that after 4 months of stringing you on it is reasonable to believe his intent was to defraud you.

Knowing how sometimes (and I was guilty of this myself) law enforcement isn't jumping to make arrests like this, I asked him how the DAs office felt on these issues.

He reminded me the statue in our state and all states should be the same are worded that law enforcement "shall" take action when there is probable cause to believe a crime has been committed. Its not an option for them even if they are reluctant.

So, with the little looking into this that I did, I maintain that no matter how you deem fit to handle this civilly, letting him know a warrant is going to be drawn out for him is IMO the most persuasive way to get paid.

When I was working, many times a complainant came to me and I took the time to make a call to the offender either speaking to him or leaving a message explaining you were in my office, filing a complaint for arrest. I would say to the person I have been able to persuade the complainant to wait another week before we draw the warrant. Please contact my office ASAP.

In your case this would be an idea option if you or someone you know in the PD would be willing to take the time to take a report and make a call, even if its prior to taking action.
 
Scott Lee said:
I would like to ask the opinions of the many posters here. I know what mine is, but I'd like to hear from others...

[...]

My guess is at this point you've been stiffed for $300 and experienced at least another $300 worth of angst. I say try to forget about it other than remembering enough to avoid the same situation in the future.

I see many of the potential solutions as having bigger potential for increasing the angst than they do for decreasing the debt.
 
Scott Lee said:
I would like to ask the opinions of the many posters here. I know what mine is, but I'd like to hear from others...

What would you do if you gave someone a service and they paid you with a check, and then asked you to hold it for a month. Then when the check was deposited it bounced, and the person gave you the runaround about how they had $$$ troubles and would pay you "as soon as they could". It's been FOUR MONTHS since the service was provided (and by their own admission they benefitted from the service), and the debt remains unpaid. Would you blow it off, keep trying to convince them to pay you, or sue them in small claims court? FWIW, the value of the service was $300+. MI law allows you to sue for triple damages, plus court costs...plus, IIRC bouncing a check is fraud.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I'd take the bad check to small claims court and talk to the judge. I wouldn't forget about someone owing me over $300 and taking care of bad checks is one of the purposes of small claims court. It sounds like whoever gave you that check didn't have any intentions of paying you for your service. You deserve to be paid plus the fee the bank charged you for the bad check bouncing at a minimum.
 
Scott,
I have read this whole thread because I too am a small business man and I was wondering what the practical options were in a case such as yours.

There are a lot of details not known from your original post and I think most of these people that are suggestiing physical action or personal confrontations are safely sitting at their computers and are not thinking far enough ahead.
People have been known to allow a small money matter to get blown so far out of proportion that someone winds up getting hurt. I seriously doubt that you want that from all I have read about you. I have come to think of you as a sincere, honest person of high integrity with a reputation of treating people right and providing a valuable service to the people who love the game of pool.

You do want to be paid and you want to maintain your reputation at the same time and I doubt if you want to physically harm anyone. How do you accomplish all these things and walk away with a feeling of pride in your actions?

I am also pretty sure that it is the principle of the thing and not really just $300. So how much is the principle worth to you personally?

There is a lot of advise offered on this thread on possible solutions but I think the real solution is for you to choose a course that will result in your feeling good about the outcome regardless of the outcome. If it is the principle your are upholding, pursue it that way, if it is your pride your are protecting, that will probably be a different method, if it is just the $300, it is a whole other thing.
These are not easy questions to ask yourself but you are the only one that can provide the honest and correct answers and in those answers you will find your options for a good solution for you.

Good Luck what ever you decide to do.
 
Over the years this is just the cost of doing business. If you are in a situation where you collect money often---get a VISA/Mastercard. This not only insures payment but is a great way to increase your business.

One guy I know sells horses. And he sells more and at higher prices than anyone. His secret. He is the only one to take a credit card.
 
Additionally, as a "business man" you should be aware that you will never collect 100% of your receivables. An accounting course might help you out here. Even the huge banks that issue credit have an allowense account for uncollectable receivables. Not to say that you should just "write it off", but be aware that this small percentage of loss may be the price of taking checks.
 
Scott Lee said:
I would like to ask the opinions of the many posters here. I know what mine is, but I'd like to hear from others...

What would you do if you gave someone a service and they paid you with a check, and then asked you to hold it for a month. Then when the check was deposited it bounced, and the person gave you the runaround about how they had $$$ troubles and would pay you "as soon as they could". It's been FOUR MONTHS since the service was provided (and by their own admission they benefitted from the service), and the debt remains unpaid. Would you blow it off, keep trying to convince them to pay you, or sue them in small claims court? FWIW, the value of the service was $300+. MI law allows you to sue for triple damages, plus court costs...plus, IIRC bouncing a check is fraud.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Sue them for everything you can get! That way it will be a lesson to them. You could also report it to a checking facitlity like check right. They will put his name on their list and they can even prosecute them which could eventually lead to jail time.

I would sue just for the principle. Even if you don't win anything but the court cost it will teach them that they can't get away with crap like that!
 
txplshrk said:
Sue them for everything you can get! That way it will be a lesson to them. You could also report it to a checking facitlity like check right. They will put his name on their list and they can even prosecute them which could eventually lead to jail time.

I would sue just for the principle. Even if you don't win anything but the court cost it will teach them that they can't get away with crap like that!

Whatever you decide to do, don't publish it on AZ, simply say that it was resolved to your satisfaction unless you got the whole amount, then provide us with all of the juicy details, including the PB's SS#, email address, screen name, you know, EVERYTHING WE WILL NEED TO VILLIFY THE PB. :rolleyes:
jOEYa
 
Small claims court, but considering the deadbeat, you're not likely to get paid the judgement. At the hearing, motion to refer to the DA for criminal prosecution. If you win the judgement, and you will, after the time allowed for payment, either turn it over to a collector or sell the judgement to someone who will harrass him for the rest of his life, after he's found guilty for fraud. Once he sees his future going up in smoke, paying you the $300 plus all expenses, interest, etc. will be the easiest way out.
 
I'm with JoeyA. Deadbeats, sleazebags, and criminals should be "outed."

Even if you decide to let the matter go and take a loss; it would be a public service to let the world know of his behavior (unless of course you like him a lot better than us). Otherwise the rest of us stand to get burned by this guy in some way or another.
 
I'm all for being merciful to a guy who's down on his luck or in a financial slump, but I can't stand the idea that someone who doesn't even have 300ish bucks in the bank would try to buy something as frivolous as pool lessons (I'm assuming?). That's so irresponsible you almost have to go after him just to teach him not to be so stupid.

Get your shit straight financially before even thinking about games.

Obviously any calls for violence over what a guy at Mcdonald's can make in a week are stupid, gotta go with randy on that...
 
Craig said:
file it with the bad check division in your county they will issue a warrant for his/her arrest they will not go out looking for this person but, the check will stay on file. if and when this person gets pulled over by the cops (police) it will show he/she has a warrant for their arrest and will be arrested and they CAN NOT get out of jail until the bad check is paid in full.

I own a advertising business and I provided services to a business that wrote me a bad check I went to the bad check division in my county and this is what I was told.

3 years later I get a check in the mail for $675.00 from the county where I live for the full amount, yeah basically I wrote it off figuring I would never get the money but as described above it will happen someday may be 1-20 yrs but they cant run forever.

Most sensible and legal way to handle it. IMO.

Southpaw
 
Scott Lee said:
I would like to ask the opinions of the many posters here. I know what mine is, but I'd like to hear from others...

What would you do if you gave someone a service and they paid you with a check, and then asked you to hold it for a month. Then when the check was deposited it bounced, and the person gave you the runaround about how they had $$$ troubles and would pay you "as soon as they could". It's been FOUR MONTHS since the service was provided (and by their own admission they benefitted from the service), and the debt remains unpaid. Would you blow it off, keep trying to convince them to pay you, or sue them in small claims court? FWIW, the value of the service was $300+. MI law allows you to sue for triple damages, plus court costs...plus, IIRC bouncing a check is fraud.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott,

Despite some of this other advice here, I don't think the person who issued the check is guilty of fraud and I don't think you would get treble damages or could even file a police complaint. When they told you to hold it for a month, it was with the understanding the check was not good at the moment. That's actually disclosure. Fraud is when they knowingly write a bad check to defraud you out of goods or services. It's not fraud because they couldn't know, one way or another, if the check would be good in a month.

Still, it clearly is a debt to you. You could get the $300 back plus court costs in small claims and have a shot at treble damages if the person does this a lot. But then you have to collect. Personally, at this stage of my life, I would just write it off. If it were more money, I would pursue it, but the time and aggravation just aren't worth it for $300.

Chris
 
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