westcoast said:

I don't think the majority of the pros would do it...

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smoochie said:

why would you go frame by frame, you do realize that videos are not how you perceive things like in reality, videos are nothing but motion pictures, so if one frame where you see it moving & the cue is away from the 9ball -- that does NOT mean that he didn't touch it man, its a picture that is moving, picture after picture after picture. You gotta see the whole thing.

And to add to this the movement of the 9ball will happen obviously AFTER when he struck the ball, this is stating the obvious but you seem to want the SAME exact frame to have both where the shaft hits the cueball & where the 9ball is moving, which is a false premises man. Obviously that wouldn't happen because its a motion picture, again the shaft would hit the cueball first in ONE PICTURE, then one or two pictures later as the frame is moving you would see the 9ball moves, thats only logical and it is how it suppose to happen if he fouled, there's noway the 9ball and the shaft both move at the same frame haha, I dunno why i find it funny that you've been mentioning this same thing numerous times thinking you've discovered something.

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loggerhead12 said:

It wasn't magic, or digital artifacts, or seismic activity, or ghosts. Occam's razor. His cue hit the 9.

Why are we even questioning this? I predict a @dr_dave video by Tuesday at the latest.

For everyone else, maybe next year.

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T411 said:

I also think Grady would still be regarded as the same player if he grew up playing on the today’s tables. - great players adjust.

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EinarsZ said:

Hey everyone, I’m looking for some clarity on this topic.


Let’s start with slate precision. What’s the maximum acceptable error? For me, anything more than 0.02 mm/m is already too much. Normally I aim for less than 0.01 mm/m, though I sometimes feel like its not necessary. I’m the only one going this far in 700km radius.


Is this level of precision really needed? Hard to say. If you level with a ball, the margin of error is about 0.06 mm/m (without cloth). And once cloth is on, part of that precision is “canceled out.” In reality, I wonder: could even the best players tell the difference between 0.01 / 0.02 / 0.03 mm/m? My guess — probably not, they’d all feel the same.


Things get more complicated with cheap tables vs. normal tables. For me, slate should always be as close to 0.01 mm/m as possible. But with cheaper tables, a bent frame isn’t even considered a warranty issue — they’re just not built to be flat. Achieving high precision is only possible if installation time is 2–3× longer than on a standard table.


The problem isn’t with the clients — they expect a flat table, and that’s reasonable. The real issue is with sales personnel: they don’t understand the technical requirements, and they don’t communicate them properly. I can’t just leave a table “not flat,” and I can’t call anyone an idiot. The only solution is to charge extra and upgrade the frame to meet the client’s expectations.


For me, the way out is to stop selling cheap tables altogether. If I sell tables myself, I can control expectations. But even then, expensive tables (5–7000€) don’t always mean the parts fit together properly. Becoming a manufacturer is possible, but I can’t make them cheaper than China or with better design than Italy. What I can do is build a much better sport table, because most so-called “sport tables” are really just standard tables with correct dimensions.


Another option is moving to a location with better opportunities — but that’s a different story. If have anything to offer im open.

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DeeDeeCues said:

I have a feeling that Grady would be amazed at the pool being played today.

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LeftyIke said:

Your ignorance, and America’s ignorance and Bigotry is incredible. Race is a Social, Cultural, and Psychological, construct, it has nothing to do with Intellect, Learning ability, or talent. It predicts ability to absorb the Rays of the Sun, and the resistance to catching Sickle Cell Amenia, more than anything else. Did you look at Ohtani, and say that an Oriental Baseball Player could never be a great Baseball Player, and especially succeed at Pitching and Batting, and be dominant at both? What the Hell would his Race have to do with it? Did you say that, if Oriental players were good enough, they would have been in America, and be already showing the world that they could do it?? When the 4 minute mile mark was reached, many others would accomplish it, shortly after it was proven that it could be done! You cannot look at ANYONE, and say what they are not capable of doing! Are you, and America really that stupid? The problem with the Sport of Billiards, among many others, is Idiots like you, that think that you are automatically superior to anyone else, and that you can observe them and put limitations on them and their ambitions, and determine their ceilings, and what you believe they are capable of achieving! That is exactly what I was trying to explain earlier, and the results we see from the rest of the world, being more accepting and intelligent than America, and the rest of the world is kicking our Asses in the games that America was supposedly Superior in, and invented! The results are Clear, 300 million people are not putting us at the top, and there is no automatic superiority. We are getting our Asses handed to us, and we are too ignorant and prejudiced to see that we need to have equal opportunities for everyone.

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garczar said:

i just re-watched in and i couldn't see it full speed and barely at 1/2speed. If it moved AY didn't feel it otherwise he'd have called it on himself. Even for a ref to have seen that micro-wiggle he'd have to have had the perfect angle. And perfect vision.

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smoochie said:

someone who was there sitting in front of the shot "Not behind yapp" saw it and thought it was a foul too before coming here to see the posts, so yeah its not something we came up with just ourselves.

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garczar said:

this was only seen with super slo-mo. yapp never felt/saw it and neither did a ref. if you go back and hyper analyze sports over the years you'll find hundreds of instances like this.

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EinarsZ said:

I got bubble level with precision 0.01mm/m and it's also calibrated once a year or when it starts to show wrong.

Asked chatgpt to read this forum and found measurements. He's a answer.

Max allowable error (slate levelness)

Professional / Tournament spec (Diamond, Brunswick GC, 3-piece slate, 1" thick):

Tolerance is typically ±0.005" (≈0.13 mm) over the entire length of the playing surface.

This is about the thickness of a sheet of printer paper. Anything beyond that starts to show in slow-rolling balls.

Many top installers aim for better than spec (±0.002–0.003", ≈0.05–0.08 mm).


Commercial poolroom installs (good but not tournament-prep):

Acceptable up to ±0.010" (≈0.25 mm) across seams or end-to-end.

Still invisible to casual players, but a seasoned player might see rolls near seams.


Cheap tables / home-grade furniture tables (light frames, thin slate, or MDF “slate”):

Realistically you may see ±0.020–0.030" (≈0.5–0.75 mm) even after best effort, because the frame doesn’t stay flat and the slate isn’t precision-ground.

On MDF or 3/4" import slates, seam shifts and sagging can create visible rolls within months.


Looks like my line is slate itself, im not ready and have no tools to change sanding of the slate. I modify table design also if customers agree to pay extra to get best possible out of things they bought. I dont have option to sell better at position i am. Only modify that client has bought to achieve my standards.

Maby that's because have made lot of mistakes myself learning this skill and have reached ~70% knowledge to start compete at manufacturing and probably going to do it as for me its easier they constantly fixing manufacturing errors or figuring out how to make parts fit in clients living rooms. Have few innovative ideas that becoming a blueprints. Will see where it goes. Cant tell nothing more as i need first understand if those innovations somehow fits for pattern. Yes i can not pattern table but new mechanisms inside, maby.

My point of view is that client doesn't deserve table that is not flat or in wrong parameters only because it's cheap(not talking about mdf surfaces). Or because its cheap it's okay that parts won't fit together. In my mind cheaper means made right with not as good materials, less life time. Rubber lifetime reduced.
If we allowed those cheap tables to be unplayable then how we can get new clients for good ones as bad table destroy chance that this person ever going to play it. Who are going to keep doing anything if nothing works out, but if things works out you probably will continue doing it. Sorry but if private person buys table, someone in that building likes billiard and it depends of first table he owns if he would love it or hate it. From this actually beginner also have same needs as pro.

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straightline said:

There appears to be a foul at the presented speed. If you go frame by frame, there is no movement by contact. The clip is closer to magic than foul.

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