Push shot foul?

because it's very rare to shoot it like that and probably most ref's never had to rule on such shot so if it was me, before shooting, I would make sure that the ref knows the rule

As far as I know, most refs are trained such that they can’t explain a rule or tell you what the outcome is before the shot. So you can’t ask “great, you’ve said it’s frozen. So that means I can shoot straight into them with a normal stoke?” Plus a properly trained ref would be insulted I think if you were making sure they knew the rule.

Push shot foul?

I played one session of VNEA pool over 20 years ago and I got called on the “you have to jack up even if it’s frozen” rule. At that time I didn’t know enough to know that BCA/WPA rules didn’t apply everywhere. Lesson learned.
Yes. There is also an advantage to having a clear rule that is easy to judge or ref. I don’t think it is the right rule, but… the clarity avoids some problems.

Like the tush push rule in the NFL. I like the old rule and interpretation, I don’t like the current rule. There is now opposition to the new rule, but maybe not enough to change it back. What might fix the problem is not substance or safety, but the fact false starts and such can’t be reffed well. Not the right approach to me, but being able to officiate a given rule accurately and consistently is a consideration.

Push shot foul?

However, if the cue-ball is touching an object-ball at the start of the shot, it is legal to shoot towards or partly into that ball (provided it is a legal target within the rules of the game) and if the object-ball is moved by such a shot, it is considered to have been contacted by the cue-ball.

Wierd rule. Some things are bit off here.
How can you shoot towards or partialy into the ball and NOT to move the ball?

I think this rule is covering a different situation, because it defines what counts as a contact. If you shoot cueball towards the rail for example its legal only if ob moved, otherwise its a foul. Initial frozen contact does not counts as a contact if ob haven't moved.

Push shot foul?

Listen to Karl's comments in the second clip I posted. He hasn't go a clue, nor does the other commentator. (Michael something?)

Related to which, the vast majority of pro players don't know what the rules are. Part of the problem is that some events use their own made-up rules, like the DCC. At the DCC, as long as you elevate, you can shoot directly at a ball you are not frozen to and also into a frozen ball. At DCC, Pongers' shot was illegal because he did not jack up.

Derby bringing the VNEA rules back from the dead after Dr Dave killed them.

Push shot foul?

Listen to Karl's comments in the second clip I posted. He hasn't go a clue, nor does the other commentator. (Michael something?)

Michael McMullan. He is a TV guy - a presenter not an expert. By the way that’s not intended to slight him, as I think Matchroom has several of these types and they work well with a pro player expert (like say Joe Buck with a Troy Aikman in the NFL).

Cayer double-dips Ashiq to win his second ’25/’26 Joss NE 9-Ball Tour stop

The Joss Tour’s Junior 9-Ball Championships scheduled for this coming weekend (March 14-15) Good pool players aspire to take game, match and/or tournament losses in stride, to not dwell on them, because of the effect it could have on their next game, match or tournament. But pool players are humans first and it’s got to be frustrating when one of them claims the hot seat for the first time in a (recorded) career and gets defeated twice by the competitor that he defeated to claim that seat in the first place. The winner of this past weekend’s stop (#14) on […]

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Push shot foul?

... Karl for sure knows the American Pool frozen ball rule. He played pro American style pool for 15 years.
...
Listen to Karl's comments in the second clip I posted. He hasn't got a clue, nor does the other commentator. (Michael something?)

Related to which, the vast majority of pro players don't know what the rules are. Part of the problem is that some events use their own made-up rules, like the DCC. At the DCC, as long as you elevate, you can shoot directly at a ball you are not frozen to and also into a frozen ball. At DCC, Pongers' shot was illegal because he did not jack up.

Best to Say Nothing at All?

On the lag, I never wish my opponent good luck. That is the dumbest remark I’ve ever heard in competitive play.
Yeah, like I really want my opponent to beat me by being lucky. I intend to win, even if I don’t. So all I say is simple.
Play your best……and I mean it too. I want their best game which only means my victory is more meaningful to me.

If I win a match, I merely say….I look forward to when when we can play again. It all comes down to this approach.
Pool is a game of honor where players can and should call fouls on themselves that otherwise might go unnoticed.

So as honorable persons, your approach to competition should be this. WIN WITH GRACE & LOSE WITH DIGNITY.
Always remain a graceful winner with your opponent and don’t demean your adversary’s victory being petulant or complaining. Don’t moan over the bad rolls you suffered, BIH fouls or OBs your adversary slopped in. You lost…own it.

My stepdad pounded that belief all the time when I was a young teen learning to play pool. My opponent didn’t do a thing to cause me to miss a shot? Indeed, he can make it a very hard shot to attempt but I’m responsible for missing the shot.

At the start of a match, wish your opponent plays their best but never wish them good luck. If you were playing poker and your had to show your cards against another player for the biggest pot of the night, are you really stupid enough to
wish them good luck before showing their hand. Don’t say something just to say something and try to make it pertinent.

Push shot foul?

This clip is all over fb.

The ref didn’t declare them frozen. (Unless it was earlier before the clip started).

There is no way in a million years those balls were frozen! You can tell by the sound and the reaction of both balls that there was a gap. When they are frozen, they separate and go at slightly different speeds even if follow is used, and the sound is pure like hitting a normal CB.

Karl for sure knows the American Pool frozen ball rule. He played pro American style pool for 15 years.

I think he just had a brain fart at the very end when he mentioned snooker and shooting away from a declared frozen ball….. Because he couldn’t believe what he just saw!

That is the most blatant foul I’ve ever seen in pro pool. The last time I’ve seen that foul was 20 years ago at the local Tuesday night handicap tournament by a complete banger.

As I wrote above, Pongers called the ref over to inspect the balls and the ref said something after inspection. If he said “frozen” or “touching” then the shot was legal. If he said “not frozen” then it’s the clearest foul ever and Pongers is an idiot (I’m assuming he declared it frozen because I just have to believe Pongers knows the rule). And of course if they were declared frozen then by rule they are frozen even if the ref misses a small gap.

Karl clearly doesn’t know the rule. He didn’t discuss at all the issue of they were frozen and clearly thought you could never shoot into a frozen object ball.

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