very possible..
Get a NEW BLACK BOAR...around $6,000
- Thread starter tikkler
- Start date
very possible..
Too true.......I have 2 of his parabolic cues, which are both incredible players. But this simple plain jane BB...LOL......put those two to shame.
If you ever get to play with one of them, you will be upset you didnt buy one
steve
This very well could be the case.
I do, however, like to look at BOTH sides of the argument. And in this case, I have to agree with many.
While Tony may be striving to build the ultimate in player's cues, the 'hit' or 'play' of a cue is such a subjective thing. And while many people pay in excess of $10,000 for his cues, many of them do it for all of the work (inlays, rinwork, points, etc.) that Tony puts into the cues. If they like the play too, its a bonus.
I just find it a little high priced because a plane jane from other cuemakers known for making superior player's cues (like Dennis Searing, Eric Crisp, and a few others) are NOT selling for $6,000. Perhaps some Searing's fetch that on the second hand market. But not straight from Dennis.
The idea is nice. A top notch playing cue for those who can't afford the $10k+ Black Boars. But if you're trying to access a market who's price range is a bit lower, I'm not sure $6k for a plain cue is hitting the nail on the head.
They probably will all sell... to coolectors and Black Boar fans, in which case, the point of introducing them to a market that CAN'T afford a Black Boar is lost.
BB cue values
I'm sure there have been many people, including myself, that have questioned the current value of BB cues. This thread really highlighted the current cost of a Black Boar cue and I think is an appropriate place to have this dialog. I wanted to post some comments regarding this topic but first let me give you a little background history.
I have been to Tony's shop twice. Tony is an extremely interesting, passionate, and meticulous cue builder / artist. I'm a SL7 APA player and have played pool for almost 20 years. I've played with a number of custom and production style cues. I own a table which enables me to play a little almost daily.
With that said, I've seen the price of Tony's cues go from what I would describe as a reasonable premium to where they are today. I've always loved Tony's cues for their craftsmanship however never have been able to convince myself to make the purchase/investment. Within the last several years I feel like Craig Smith / BlackBoarCustomCues.com have, with the web site, marketing, and purchasing Black Boar cues on the secondary market, effectively driven the price of Black Boar cues to double. I came across one of Tony's cues by chance on the secondary market within the last 12-18 months and purchased the cue for a little under $2000. The cue was a 6point cue, SS joint, leather wrap,BB logo with two shafts and ivory ferules. The cue played and looked very nice. I sold the cue to Craig within the week and pocketed a $2200 profit. At that time I figured, like the housing market, the values had peaked. I guess if Tony is able sell these PJ cues for $6000 that I was wrong. I'm guessing that if you ask any A+ or above player how much better they play with a perfect cue vs. a good quality cue I would guess they would say only marginally. Best of luck to Tony. I'm just disappointed as a player that I'm really priced out of the market at this point by a long shot!!!!!
I'm sure there have been many people, including myself, that have questioned the current value of BB cues. This thread really highlighted the current cost of a Black Boar cue and I think is an appropriate place to have this dialog. I wanted to post some comments regarding this topic but first let me give you a little background history.
I have been to Tony's shop twice. Tony is an extremely interesting, passionate, and meticulous cue builder / artist. I'm a SL7 APA player and have played pool for almost 20 years. I've played with a number of custom and production style cues. I own a table which enables me to play a little almost daily.
With that said, I've seen the price of Tony's cues go from what I would describe as a reasonable premium to where they are today. I've always loved Tony's cues for their craftsmanship however never have been able to convince myself to make the purchase/investment. Within the last several years I feel like Craig Smith / BlackBoarCustomCues.com have, with the web site, marketing, and purchasing Black Boar cues on the secondary market, effectively driven the price of Black Boar cues to double. I came across one of Tony's cues by chance on the secondary market within the last 12-18 months and purchased the cue for a little under $2000. The cue was a 6point cue, SS joint, leather wrap,BB logo with two shafts and ivory ferules. The cue played and looked very nice. I sold the cue to Craig within the week and pocketed a $2200 profit. At that time I figured, like the housing market, the values had peaked. I guess if Tony is able sell these PJ cues for $6000 that I was wrong. I'm guessing that if you ask any A+ or above player how much better they play with a perfect cue vs. a good quality cue I would guess they would say only marginally. Best of luck to Tony. I'm just disappointed as a player that I'm really priced out of the market at this point by a long shot!!!!!
Here's some rep for you Mr Yost. I wholeheartedly agree.
While I don't think you can win the Indy 500 driving a '69 rusted out VW Beetle, I do believe if you put two Ferrari F400's on a track and race them, the better driver will win. For me, that F400 would be a Mike Lambros cue. I believe they play better than any cue made. But, that's just my opinion...
this is a great post. i'm going to guess that i'm not going to be a better player if i put down my szambotis or my hercek and play with one of these bb plain janes. i guess maybe i don't have a clue, lol. i agree that someone will buy them but if the plan is to make an "affordable" bb in this market at this time it won't work.
guy
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And it certainly won't work at this price. For $6k, one could buy another monster player with a lot more flair to it.
Like I said, most if not all of these cues will likely sell... but to BB collectors and guys who like to spend money on big names. Its certainly not going to convince most others in the market for a monster cue that plays great to pass over Hercek, Searing, and many others for a plain jane cue from a guy known for his high priced FANCY cues. JMO.
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i was just sitting here doing the math.
tony is a smart guy, biz for just about everyone is soft right now. I dont know what Tony's waiting list looks like, but I bet he isnt getting as many orders as before. Just a guess.
What he is doing here is creating $36,000 in top line biz for himself, nothing more. Usually that means about 2 cues at his current prices that he is getting. $18,000X2=$36,000 nothing more to it.
I bet that the $6,000 players cues he is building takes about 33% the work as a loaded $18,000 8pt cue he normally builds. If thats the case he has to put the same effort in to 3 player cues as 1 loaded 8pt cue. So at the end of the day he is still generating the same amount of $$$ per hour he spends building big fancy 8pt cues.
Now whats wrong with that???
The only difference is there is going to be 4 extra BB's in the world, Tony will probably take the same amount of time building these 6 cues as 2 fancy cues and collect the same $$$., and I'm sure they will play like his top cues do, he isnt going to whore out his name with 4 extra cues.
Sounds like smart biz to me. Why people cant handle how someone else handles thier business, is something I cant understand. I never count other peoples $$$$, I spend time making MY $$$$.
4 extra cues, same $$$ and all this fuss, honestly give it a rest....especially when your nort involved
tony is a smart guy, biz for just about everyone is soft right now. I dont know what Tony's waiting list looks like, but I bet he isnt getting as many orders as before. Just a guess.
What he is doing here is creating $36,000 in top line biz for himself, nothing more. Usually that means about 2 cues at his current prices that he is getting. $18,000X2=$36,000 nothing more to it.
I bet that the $6,000 players cues he is building takes about 33% the work as a loaded $18,000 8pt cue he normally builds. If thats the case he has to put the same effort in to 3 player cues as 1 loaded 8pt cue. So at the end of the day he is still generating the same amount of $$$ per hour he spends building big fancy 8pt cues.
Now whats wrong with that???
The only difference is there is going to be 4 extra BB's in the world, Tony will probably take the same amount of time building these 6 cues as 2 fancy cues and collect the same $$$., and I'm sure they will play like his top cues do, he isnt going to whore out his name with 4 extra cues.
Sounds like smart biz to me. Why people cant handle how someone else handles thier business, is something I cant understand. I never count other peoples $$$$, I spend time making MY $$$$.
4 extra cues, same $$$ and all this fuss, honestly give it a rest....especially when your nort involved
yep
Eric, very well said...thanks. I just wasnt understanding what all the griping was about. If you wanted one of these cues, they were now available. And if you didnt, no problem. But it turned into such a contreversy
Steve
Eric, very well said...thanks. I just wasnt understanding what all the griping was about. If you wanted one of these cues, they were now available. And if you didnt, no problem. But it turned into such a contreversy
Steve
wow! you da man!tikkler said:
you need to lay off the hallucinogens :groucho:tikkler said:
not positive . . . but possibly about the new world record highest price ever asked, for a plain player, from a cue maker.tikkler said:
(and in a terrible economic climate, ta boot)
there were bb's with more work, available for sale on the forum by azer's, for less money.tikkler said:
but from your posts, i take it the older bb's value would be down due to how much better the newest ones play!?
and it's not "whining", it's discussion about why the cues would be worth the asking price.
Bb
I can;t help jump into the fray.If he wants to sell PJs for 6000 and people want to buy them,well thats their business and who are we to say what is right for cue maker and buyer.
Now having said that, in this economy today. You could possibly pick up 3 Scruggs cues for that kind of money with points and a few inlays.We all know how good his cues are and I can't believe BBs are not worth that much more.
But that would be what I would do,someone else might want the 1 cue for 6000.
I guess its just a matter of choice and your pocketbook.:thumbup:
I can;t help jump into the fray.If he wants to sell PJs for 6000 and people want to buy them,well thats their business and who are we to say what is right for cue maker and buyer.
Now having said that, in this economy today. You could possibly pick up 3 Scruggs cues for that kind of money with points and a few inlays.We all know how good his cues are and I can't believe BBs are not worth that much more.
But that would be what I would do,someone else might want the 1 cue for 6000.
I guess its just a matter of choice and your pocketbook.:thumbup:
M
Mike Cochran
Guest
Where did Steve ask for an opinion or "discussion" on the "Asking Price " He could have said these cues were $ 1000.00, and there would still be complainers.
Sorry to tip the Apple cart
Mike Cochran
Sorry to tip the Apple cart
Mike Cochran
????
He may not have asked for opinions but you can expect them on a forum...
That's my opinion...
Dan
He may not have asked for opinions but you can expect them on a forum...
That's my opinion...
Dan
That's true...and people are entitled to them.
The problem started when people got personal about it. Taking shots at Tony...or at tikkler for the announcement...is just uncalled for.
If people don't agree with the price, or the reasoning behind it...that's fine. All are entitled to agree to disagree. Taking pot shots at the cuemaker or OP is just juvenile.
People ought to just let it rest. The announcement's been made. Potential buyers know that Tony is making cues available. If they want one, great. If not, great.
wow! you da man!
you need to lay off the hallucinogens :groucho:
not positive . . . but possibly about the new world record highest price ever asked, for a plain player, from a cue maker.
(and in a terrible economic climate, ta boot)
there were bb's with more work, available for sale on the forum by azer's, for less money.
but from your posts, i take it the older bb's value would be down due to how much better the newest ones play!?
and it's not "whining", it's discussion about why the cues would be worth the asking price.
This guys probably feeling a little inadequate with his pj's worth, or that he has champagne taste and beer pockets ???? You my friend might want to lay off the wacky stuff.............
VERY interesting "discussion" going on here. Unlike some, I enjoy the give and take and all the various opinions. There's an old saying, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one." Yep, me too.
I think most of the posters have added to this discussion, which to me is not really about Tony or Black Boar, but has more to do with the economy and the overall cue market. It just so happens that Tony's cues have reached #1 on the charts these days. So his prices set the standard by which other cues (and cue makers) are compared.
I have played with a Black Boar. It was in fact a fantastic playing cue. Would I say it was the best cue I ever hit balls with? Doubtful. But it was up there with the best cues available today for sure. Like others who have posted on here, I think there are many excellent cue makers out there today. But that has little to do with Black Boar prices. As someone else said, it is the consumer that drives the market.
I used to buy plain Jane Tads for $60 directly from Tad. Now those same cues will bring $1,500 and up in good condition. I should have bought them all, huh. Finding the right cue for you will always be very subjective. I happen to like the plain jane Tad as much as any cue I've ever played with. Would I pay 6K for one. Not in this life and I can afford it.
That brings up the other point which has been belabored here. What constitutes real value and what part does "looking good" have to do with it. I think both come into play with most major purchases. It all comes down to personal attitude. Sam Walton drove a ten year old Chevy. Warren Buffet still lives in the same modest home where he has lived all his adult life. Why? Maybe because they didn't need to look good. Sam Walton wanted a reliable car that he was comfortable driving and Warren Buffet feels that his house suits his needs just fine.
Myself, I ALWAYS look for value in all my purchases. I prefer to buy a 2-3 year old Lexus that has low mileage and is now half the original price. To me that's a good deal. I view money as a tool that should be used wisely. I've had it and lost it, so I value it more now. It isn't always easy to come by either. I can easily take a pass on pretty baubles that I could afford if I really wanted them. I'm not at all reluctant to use my money though when I feel there is good reason. I LOVE to surprise my friends with little gifts, and have been known to go off in stores on occasion. I will bargain though! :smile:
So that's just me. As you can see we are all different in how we view money and value. Black Boar is almost in a class by themselves right now. I can only think of a couple cue makers who can demand similar prices and get it. I say more power to Tony and congratulations on a job well done!
I think most of the posters have added to this discussion, which to me is not really about Tony or Black Boar, but has more to do with the economy and the overall cue market. It just so happens that Tony's cues have reached #1 on the charts these days. So his prices set the standard by which other cues (and cue makers) are compared.
I have played with a Black Boar. It was in fact a fantastic playing cue. Would I say it was the best cue I ever hit balls with? Doubtful. But it was up there with the best cues available today for sure. Like others who have posted on here, I think there are many excellent cue makers out there today. But that has little to do with Black Boar prices. As someone else said, it is the consumer that drives the market.
I used to buy plain Jane Tads for $60 directly from Tad. Now those same cues will bring $1,500 and up in good condition. I should have bought them all, huh. Finding the right cue for you will always be very subjective. I happen to like the plain jane Tad as much as any cue I've ever played with. Would I pay 6K for one. Not in this life and I can afford it.
That brings up the other point which has been belabored here. What constitutes real value and what part does "looking good" have to do with it. I think both come into play with most major purchases. It all comes down to personal attitude. Sam Walton drove a ten year old Chevy. Warren Buffet still lives in the same modest home where he has lived all his adult life. Why? Maybe because they didn't need to look good. Sam Walton wanted a reliable car that he was comfortable driving and Warren Buffet feels that his house suits his needs just fine.
Myself, I ALWAYS look for value in all my purchases. I prefer to buy a 2-3 year old Lexus that has low mileage and is now half the original price. To me that's a good deal. I view money as a tool that should be used wisely. I've had it and lost it, so I value it more now. It isn't always easy to come by either. I can easily take a pass on pretty baubles that I could afford if I really wanted them. I'm not at all reluctant to use my money though when I feel there is good reason. I LOVE to surprise my friends with little gifts, and have been known to go off in stores on occasion. I will bargain though! :smile:
So that's just me. As you can see we are all different in how we view money and value. Black Boar is almost in a class by themselves right now. I can only think of a couple cue makers who can demand similar prices and get it. I say more power to Tony and congratulations on a job well done!
Perspective
To try and clarify what these "PJ" cues are, I asked Tony today if they are going to have any inlays. With the Butt and 2 shafts there will be at Least, 52 silver inlays and each cue will have the Ivory crown Butt cap.
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Now for a little perspective, who else puts that many fine Cut ( not stamped) silver inlays in their cues, there aren't many- you can probably count them on one hand.
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Other than the inlays, which is what everyone ONLY seems to be concerned about, He says these cues are some of the best playing cues he has ever made, he has focused ALL of a lifetime of knowledge into making a cue that is perfectly balanced and that feels like an extension of your arm.
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On another note concerning his Quality:
Considering, most of his cues that are out on the market are around 20 years old, I find that it is amazing that you dont hear anything about warped shafts, or cracked ivory ferrules, or any other major defect or for that matter any minor defect, that I see people complaining about on this forum every day.
To try and clarify what these "PJ" cues are, I asked Tony today if they are going to have any inlays. With the Butt and 2 shafts there will be at Least, 52 silver inlays and each cue will have the Ivory crown Butt cap.
-
Now for a little perspective, who else puts that many fine Cut ( not stamped) silver inlays in their cues, there aren't many- you can probably count them on one hand.
-
Other than the inlays, which is what everyone ONLY seems to be concerned about, He says these cues are some of the best playing cues he has ever made, he has focused ALL of a lifetime of knowledge into making a cue that is perfectly balanced and that feels like an extension of your arm.
-
On another note concerning his Quality:
Considering, most of his cues that are out on the market are around 20 years old, I find that it is amazing that you dont hear anything about warped shafts, or cracked ivory ferrules, or any other major defect or for that matter any minor defect, that I see people complaining about on this forum every day.
hey
Thanks for the support Mike. Again my original intent was to just let people know that these were now available. Something very new for Tony.
Somehow we managed to take it to a whole different level...me included.
Wouldnt it be great if the next batch of players By Tony came out at $3-4000. I beleive it would be a nice idea to have more BB cues available to people that dont want to spend big bucks to get one
Steve
Thanks for the support Mike. Again my original intent was to just let people know that these were now available. Something very new for Tony.
Somehow we managed to take it to a whole different level...me included.
Wouldnt it be great if the next batch of players By Tony came out at $3-4000. I beleive it would be a nice idea to have more BB cues available to people that dont want to spend big bucks to get one
Steve