I appreciate all the cool stories in this thread.
Any more pictures of Anne? :smile:
Any more pictures of Anne? :smile:
Johnston city
- Thread starter daniel
- Start date
For shame!
I should be ashamed of myself for not recognizing an old pal, a young Ray Booth. I was around him a lot in Miami and we played often. He was a very funny man. He was my first guess, but then I got timid and didnt want to look stupid. I also knew Gordon Guy very well from Chicago. But there was no way I could pick him up out of that photo. He couldnt play a lick, so cutting the ball backwards into the side like Jay said, was probably not an option. If anyone knew him they would remember that he always referred to himself, especially on the phone, as, "G. Gordon Guy." I think his first initial was G. not J. Havent seen him in 40 years.
the Beard
quote from Ray Booth: "When I die, the way I want to go out is to put my head on the foot spot and let Cannonball (Johnny Chapman) break the balls."
I should be ashamed of myself for not recognizing an old pal, a young Ray Booth. I was around him a lot in Miami and we played often. He was a very funny man. He was my first guess, but then I got timid and didnt want to look stupid. I also knew Gordon Guy very well from Chicago. But there was no way I could pick him up out of that photo. He couldnt play a lick, so cutting the ball backwards into the side like Jay said, was probably not an option. If anyone knew him they would remember that he always referred to himself, especially on the phone, as, "G. Gordon Guy." I think his first initial was G. not J. Havent seen him in 40 years.
the Beard
quote from Ray Booth: "When I die, the way I want to go out is to put my head on the foot spot and let Cannonball (Johnny Chapman) break the balls."
Ooops again...
No wonder I couldnt recognize J. Gordon Guy. You are talking about Gordon Guy from St Louis, a top Onepocket player. I was talking about a sweator from Chicago with the same name. It didnt make sense that all those champions were watching an egg like G. Gordon Guy, but J. Gordon Guy is another story because he could play.
the Beard
No wonder I couldnt recognize J. Gordon Guy. You are talking about Gordon Guy from St Louis, a top Onepocket player. I was talking about a sweator from Chicago with the same name. It didnt make sense that all those champions were watching an egg like G. Gordon Guy, but J. Gordon Guy is another story because he could play.
the Beard
I'm just like you Freddie. I wanted to say maybe Ray Booth, but something wouldn't let me guess again, after dogging it with Danny Jones. Also that is J. Gordon Guy and I GUARANTEE you Booth is playing position on him at that very moment. :smile: Ray would never mess with Shorty. Yes, absolutely that is Iron Joe Procita. He was one of the original Masked Marvels. Coslosky looked more like Doberman from the Sgt. Bilko TV Show.
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On P. 13 of Pool Wars is the complete list of winners of all events at Johnston City and the Stardust. In 1965 Harold Worst won the 9-Ball and the Straight Pool divisions at JC. He also won the All Around. The same year he won the One Pocket at the Stardust and the All Around. He did not survive long enough to defend his titles in 1966.
Jay...Me being a fellow Michigander (albeit transplanted 
), it makes you wonder, with all that talent, if Worst knew he had cancer, or not. Back in those days, people often had no clue, until it was too late. Sadly, for some, it still happens that way, even today. My bet is that Worst, had he not died early, would have been a major force in the pool world, for at least several years, if not decades.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
), it makes you wonder, with all that talent, if Worst knew he had cancer, or not. Back in those days, people often had no clue, until it was too late. Sadly, for some, it still happens that way, even today. My bet is that Worst, had he not died early, would have been a major force in the pool world, for at least several years, if not decades.Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Jay...Me being a fellow Michigander (albeit transplanted
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott, I saw Harold play at the '65 JC event. You could see he was much thinner and not the robust man he had been one year before. I believe he was the kind of man who carried his burden quietly and made no complaints about his condition, lest it appear he was making excuses.
In the last years of his life, he was generally acknowledged by his peers as the best player alive. He only seemed to play better at each succeeding event. He WAS the dominant force in pool, the equal of any man at any game. You called it when you said MAJOR FORCE for years to come. I personally think he would have kept right on winning until he chose to retire. That's how good he was.
Worst was unique; a man with great ability, a great work ethic, no bad habits, highly motivated to win, unsharkable, and even likable. I never saw another player quite like him. Buddy Hall may be the closet but even he had his weaknesses. I never saw a chink in Worst's armor.
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I used to know a guy in the St Louis area, Illinois side, who could tell you Blackie LeSieur stories all day long, he was highly thought of. The St Louis Gordon Guy made a one pocket game once, game was Gordon could not go more than one rail with the cue ball. He pulled up after three games when it became obvious he couldn't play that way.
I've heard nothing but great things about Worst. All of it similar to what you stated Jay. I've heard more than one pro say he was the best all-around player they ever saw.
Johnny Ervolino told me he was in awe of only 3 players that he ever saw - Ralph Greenleaf, James Evans and Harold Worst. He said as good as Worst was he was still improving at one pocket at the time of his death. I can't imagine how good he would have gotten.
I was too young to realize how great a player I was watching back then. I just knew he was damn good. Other players who have awed me include Keith for his awesome natural ability. He could make the toughest shots look routine. Keith never seemed to expend any extra effort to make any shot, the shots just flowing off his cue like water. Ronnie playing One Pocket in his prime! He played the game at another level than anyone else. The creativity, the way all the balls flowed toward his pocket, it was like the table was tilted sometimes. Ronnie ran ten and out time after time, making all manner of shots, and simply not missing. He could escape the worst trap imaginable and turn the game around in one shot.
Earl playing tournament 9-Ball. He rolled that cue ball around the table like it was on rails. Rails he created. No one ever strung racks like Earl, fives and sixes coming match after match. He had too much firepower for the rest of the world back then. Big key, he didn't miss ANYTHING! Today he misses, big difference, And finally Matlock on the bar table. He owned that table, the balls went where he told them to go. He simply overpowered the table, pounding the balls and the rails into submission. And submit they did.
Efren inspired a whole different kind of awe. He was the best pure shooter I ever saw. He could make anything from anywhere. I was amazed at the way the cue ball always seemed to just creep into position at the last instant. He always came up short on position, shot after shot. His cue ball never went long.
Of course watching Taylor and Bugs bank balls in their prime was electrifying to say the least. They whacked them in like they were hangers. Everything flew into the pockets, sometimes literally on the fly. There were other great bankers but none like these two that I saw. Watching them bank you felt like they could make anything and everything. And usually they did. Long Rack Banks wasn't such a long game with these two. If they got into the rack it was all over. Sixes, sevens and eights were routine runs for them.
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He knew
Worst knew he was dying. When he started to atrophy, just before his death, it came out that he had been told that he had five years to live. His brother told some of us the story. That's about how long he lasted. So those years at Johnston City, he knew all along that he was dying.
Who would I bet on against Harold, playing every game except bank pool? Exactly -- nobody.
the Beard
One more note on Worst. Eddie Kelly confessed to me that Harold Worst was the only guy in the world that he knew he couldnt beat playing Nine Ball. At that time Kelly had just played Lassiter to a one week draw at Wimpys home room in Elizabeth, NC.
Jay...Me being a fellow Michigander (albeit transplanted
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Worst knew he was dying. When he started to atrophy, just before his death, it came out that he had been told that he had five years to live. His brother told some of us the story. That's about how long he lasted. So those years at Johnston City, he knew all along that he was dying.
Who would I bet on against Harold, playing every game except bank pool? Exactly -- nobody.
the Beard
One more note on Worst. Eddie Kelly confessed to me that Harold Worst was the only guy in the world that he knew he couldnt beat playing Nine Ball. At that time Kelly had just played Lassiter to a one week draw at Wimpys home room in Elizabeth, NC.
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Wow, that is a prtty nice tribute to the man. I never in all my years saw Worst, or if I did, didn't realize it, but he is the #1 on the list of players I would have like to see play!
We'll never know for sure....
Freddy,
Always great to see you posting here! Hope the knee is coming along fine and you're well again soon.
I have lots of respect for Harold Worst. Jay & I have debated about his pecking order for some time in the AZB threads. There's a handful of people who's opinion really matters to me , and Jay is one of them for certain. Always good and interseting info comes out. After hearing Jay's take on him over the years, my estimation of Mr Worst has risen. Great over-all player for sure.
BUT....One player who is always over-looked in the 'greatest all-around" catagory is Nick Varner. And, I would bet on Varner over Worst in the hypothetical match up you proposed. I know what Harold won in both Johnston City and at the Stardust Opens (titles in each of what you said), but......
Varner has won World Championships in 14.1, 9 Ball, 1 Pocket, 8 Ball and yes,.....even banks!
Do you remember how hard it was to beat Nick in any game? All the heart in the world.
Did you overlook "The Little Gorilla"????
Harold would have a big advantage in his kicking ability, since he was also a World Champion 3 Cushion player also (and Nick wasn't). And possibly shotmaking. The real tilt for me though would be Nick over Harold in the 14.1. And, Nick being a multiple World and U.S. Open 9 Ball champion, can you really see Harold beating him at 9 ball? Contend with, yes. Better 9 baller than Varner, I can't see that. I'll push or give the slightest edge to Worst in 1P.
When Harold died of Hodgkins disease (cancer of the lympth glands) on June 16, 1966, he was only 37 years old. So maybe he would have won even more had he not been so sick.
Well Beard, I must admit, it would have been a very close match. Maybe Harold would have beaten Nick. Or, as Billy is found of saying, "Maybe, just maybe...."
Either way, great match up between two all time all around greats.
PS-If you were giving odds on this match up, realistically, what would you say?
PSS-Where is Billy or Iba7467 when you need them?
Freddy,
Always great to see you posting here! Hope the knee is coming along fine and you're well again soon.
I have lots of respect for Harold Worst. Jay & I have debated about his pecking order for some time in the AZB threads. There's a handful of people who's opinion really matters to me , and Jay is one of them for certain. Always good and interseting info comes out. After hearing Jay's take on him over the years, my estimation of Mr Worst has risen. Great over-all player for sure.
BUT....One player who is always over-looked in the 'greatest all-around" catagory is Nick Varner. And, I would bet on Varner over Worst in the hypothetical match up you proposed. I know what Harold won in both Johnston City and at the Stardust Opens (titles in each of what you said), but......
Varner has won World Championships in 14.1, 9 Ball, 1 Pocket, 8 Ball and yes,.....even banks!
Do you remember how hard it was to beat Nick in any game? All the heart in the world.
Did you overlook "The Little Gorilla"????
Harold would have a big advantage in his kicking ability, since he was also a World Champion 3 Cushion player also (and Nick wasn't). And possibly shotmaking. The real tilt for me though would be Nick over Harold in the 14.1. And, Nick being a multiple World and U.S. Open 9 Ball champion, can you really see Harold beating him at 9 ball? Contend with, yes. Better 9 baller than Varner, I can't see that. I'll push or give the slightest edge to Worst in 1P.
When Harold died of Hodgkins disease (cancer of the lympth glands) on June 16, 1966, he was only 37 years old. So maybe he would have won even more had he not been so sick.
Well Beard, I must admit, it would have been a very close match. Maybe Harold would have beaten Nick. Or, as Billy is found of saying, "Maybe, just maybe...."
Either way, great match up between two all time all around greats.
PS-If you were giving odds on this match up, realistically, what would you say?
PSS-Where is Billy or Iba7467 when you need them?
Nicky was great but Harold was special
Terry, you really dont have a handle on just what kind of player Harold Worst was. I never considered playing him anything but bank pool - his only weakness. I have played and beat Nicky playing straight pool in tourns. I was able to beat him playing banks for many years. The year he won his first world straight pool title in NY we played at the North Shore even 1pkt for $200 a game and played to a tie. Thats the same time that Nick beat Artie 15 games of 1pkt and then came back after winning the title at the Commodre Hotel and Artie beat him for a week straight.
Wimpy ducked Harold playing 9 Ball. Eddie Taylor ducked him playing 1pkt. I witnessed all this personally. As far as pool players go, we were all earthlings and Harold was from another planet.
I watched Harold give Baby Face 130 to a 100 and win every game. I watched him shoot his way out of a Weanie Beanie trap when Worst gave Sonny Springer 8 to 6 and the break.
Singing praises to Harold diminishes the great Nick Varner not at all. Nick was one of the greatest all-around players ever, but Harold had to be experienced to be believed. Harold had plenty of money and would play anybody, anything and bet all you wanted. So in my time at Johnston City, how many players picked on him to play even? Jacksonvilles's Sammy Blumenthal was the only one, they played snooker and Harold assassinated him. Previously, Sammy was undefeated in snooker for 20 years.
the Beard
Johnston City IL, middle 60s. U.J. Puckett had for years dazzled the crowd with his specialty shot, a five rail draw with the cue ball at least 5 diamonds away from the object ball. I could diagram the shot, but that's not the point of this discourse. Harold Worst watched Puck do the shot and then asked him if he could try it. Worst got down on the shot and got seven rails on the first try! Puckett never showed that shot at Johnston City again. I seen that with my own eyeballs. There was no stroke shot that Worst couldn't execute
Freddy,
Always great to see you posting here! Hope the knee is coming along fine and you're well again soon.
I have lots of respect for Harold Worst. Jay & I have debated about his pecking order for some time in the AZB threads. There's a handful of people who's opinion really matters to me , and Jay is one of them for certain. Always good and interseting info comes out. After hearing Jay's take on him over the years, my estimation of Mr Worst has risen. Great over-all player for sure.
BUT....One player who is always over-looked in the 'greatest all-around" catagory is Nick Varner. And, I would bet on Varner over Worst in the hypothetical match up you proposed. I know what Harold won in both Johnston City and at the Stardust Opens (titles in each of what you said), but......
Varner has won World Championships in 14.1, 9 Ball, 1 Pocket, 8 Ball and yes,.....even banks!
Do you remember how hard it was to beat Nick in any game? All the heart in the world.
Did you overlook "The Little Gorilla"????
Harold would have a big advantage in his kicking ability, since he was also a World Champion 3 Cushion player also (and Nick wasn't). And possibly shotmaking. The real tilt for me though would be Nick over Harold in the 14.1. And, Nick being a multiple World and U.S. Open 9 Ball champion, can you really see Harold beating him at 9 ball? Contend with, yes. Better 9 baller than Varner, I can't see that. I'll push or give the slightest edge to Worst in 1P.
When Harold died of Hodgkins disease (cancer of the lympth glands) on June 16, 1966, he was only 37 years old. So maybe he would have won even more had he not been so sick.
Well Beard, I must admit, it would have been a very close match. Maybe Harold would have beaten Nick. Or, as Billy is found of saying, "Maybe, just maybe...."
Either way, great match up between two all time all around greats.
PS-If you were giving odds on this match up, realistically, what would you say?
PSS-Where is Billy or Iba7467 when you need them?
Terry, you really dont have a handle on just what kind of player Harold Worst was. I never considered playing him anything but bank pool - his only weakness. I have played and beat Nicky playing straight pool in tourns. I was able to beat him playing banks for many years. The year he won his first world straight pool title in NY we played at the North Shore even 1pkt for $200 a game and played to a tie. Thats the same time that Nick beat Artie 15 games of 1pkt and then came back after winning the title at the Commodre Hotel and Artie beat him for a week straight.
Wimpy ducked Harold playing 9 Ball. Eddie Taylor ducked him playing 1pkt. I witnessed all this personally. As far as pool players go, we were all earthlings and Harold was from another planet.
I watched Harold give Baby Face 130 to a 100 and win every game. I watched him shoot his way out of a Weanie Beanie trap when Worst gave Sonny Springer 8 to 6 and the break.
Singing praises to Harold diminishes the great Nick Varner not at all. Nick was one of the greatest all-around players ever, but Harold had to be experienced to be believed. Harold had plenty of money and would play anybody, anything and bet all you wanted. So in my time at Johnston City, how many players picked on him to play even? Jacksonvilles's Sammy Blumenthal was the only one, they played snooker and Harold assassinated him. Previously, Sammy was undefeated in snooker for 20 years.
the Beard
Johnston City IL, middle 60s. U.J. Puckett had for years dazzled the crowd with his specialty shot, a five rail draw with the cue ball at least 5 diamonds away from the object ball. I could diagram the shot, but that's not the point of this discourse. Harold Worst watched Puck do the shot and then asked him if he could try it. Worst got down on the shot and got seven rails on the first try! Puckett never showed that shot at Johnston City again. I seen that with my own eyeballs. There was no stroke shot that Worst couldn't execute
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Freddy,
Always great to see you posting here! Hope the knee is coming along fine and you're well again soon.
I have lots of respect for Harold Worst. Jay & I have debated about his pecking order for some time in the AZB threads. There's a handful of people who's opinion really matters to me , and Jay is one of them for certain. Always good and interseting info comes out. After hearing Jay's take on him over the years, my estimation of Mr Worst has risen. Great over-all player for sure.
BUT....One player who is always over-looked in the 'greatest all-around" catagory is Nick Varner. And, I would bet on Varner over Worst in the hypothetical match up you proposed. I know what Harold won in both Johnston City and at the Stardust Opens (titles in each of what you said), but......
Varner has won World Championships in 14.1, 9 Ball, 1 Pocket, 8 Ball and yes,.....even banks!
Do you remember how hard it was to beat Nick in any game? All the heart in the world.
Did you overlook "The Little Gorilla"????
Harold would have a big advantage in his kicking ability, since he was also a World Champion 3 Cushion player also (and Nick wasn't). And possibly shotmaking. The real tilt for me though would be Nick over Harold in the 14.1. And, Nick being a multiple World and U.S. Open 9 Ball champion, can you really see Harold beating him at 9 ball? Contend with, yes. Better 9 baller than Varner, I can't see that. I'll push or give the slightest edge to Worst in 1P.
When Harold died of Hodgkins disease (cancer of the lympth glands) on June 16, 1966, he was only 37 years old. So maybe he would have won even more had he not been so sick.
Well Beard, I must admit, it would have been a very close match. Maybe Harold would have beaten Nick. Or, as Billy is found of saying, "Maybe, just maybe...."
Either way, great match up between two all time all around greats.
PS-If you were giving odds on this match up, realistically, what would you say?
PSS-Where is Billy or Iba7467 when you need them?
Funny Terry you should mention Nick Varner. I was straining my brain cells to find any other player who even remotely resembled Worst in attitude and ability. Nick was the only one I could come up with. I didn't mention him here because as Freddie said, he was not really in Worst's league when it came to playing ability. Nicky was merely damn good, Harold was the Efren of his era, a notch above the rest of the world.
Like Freddies said, when Harold played you KNEW he was going to find a way to win. And his opponents knew it too. :thumbup: I saw him play maybe 8-10 times in the 60's, including at the Michigan State Fairgrounds in 1963. He won the One Pocket title, beating Cornbread. He also won the Straight pool beating Babyface in the finals. And he won the 9-Ball. Cornbread actually beat him in the Snooker finals, with Worst claiming that this was his first time playing the game competitively. It was a close final match by the way.
I was also there when he won the 9-Ball, the Straight Pool and the All Around title at Johnston City in 1965. You could see he was sick, but no matter. He dominated anyway! He never got a chance to defend these titles. To this day I have never seen his equal on a pool table. I hesitate to say this but he is the one American who would have gotten Efren weak in the knees.
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Well Beard, you certainly make a compelling case! In fact, this is "Defense Attorny" quality material!
I had heard about Luther ducking (allegedly) Harold in 9 ball but I didn't want to put that out there. Lassiter is my number 1 all time favorite player, so I didn't want to besmirch his reputation by posting what we just did.
What you and Jay wrote means a lot to me cause you guys SEEN him play, I only read about him.
Thanks Freddy!
Jay,
Like Freddy, you carry a lot of weight in my book when it comes to gauging a players real speed. Harold is one player I never saw shoot, not even on film. So I take what you guys who were there and seen in person have to say about him with a lot of validity.
I always considered Reyes, Varner, Worst, Hopkins, Boston Shorty, Parica & Sigel to be about the best all around champions. It seems more & more that Harold was stronger than I envisioned.
It's also nice that the players of yesterday are still remembered and held in such high esteem by the guys in the know. They live on longer that way.
Thanks Jay!