Nice box cue almost ready
- Thread starter Graciocues
- Start date
It doesn't look unique to me at all . It looks like a copy of the Kikel on the new2youqs websight.
Jimbo would have a field day with this if he were still around. Cue design theft. IMO
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This could be fun!
When a customer tells me his design I built it. I have a blackwood cue almost finished that looks similar to some Sugartree cues. The customer designs I build.
When a customer tells me his design I built it. I have a blackwood cue almost finished that looks similar to some Sugartree cues. The customer designs I build.
Glad you find amusement in this Scott. There's more to the story than meets the eye. Maybe you and Fisher could have a Sugartee rip off cue building contest.
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You know what they say Jamie, imitation is the highest form of flattery. I think when a customer designs a cue for a cue builder to make it is not really up to the cue maker to decide if it is too similar to another cue makers design. However if a cue maker was building cues and then trying to sell them to anyone who will buy that are extremely similar to other cue maker designs it borders on design stealing. In Bryan's defense it is kind of hard to build a wrapless merry widow using beautiful woods and it not look similar to a Sugartree cue, aside from the micro ring work, I think most of Eric's cues are not really unique in design just beauitful woods masterfully crafted. A lot of people built wrapless cues very similar to the one's Eric built but he took it to the next level with the woods and playability.
I am currently having Randy Mobley build me a cue that I hope to be an exact copy of the below Joss West but I want the playability of a newer style cue rather than just buying a 30 year old cue, do you think that is out of line? However, I still might buy the cue like this that is currently for sale, just because I love that design and it is looking like a hell of a deal.
Just my .02 worth on the subject.
Copying a Southwest has been done over and over . They basically build the same cue over and over . Every cuemaker I know has built soimthing similar
This was a blatant rip-off of a one of a kind cue design by Dave. Not even close IMO to your Southwest comparison.
This was a blatant rip-off of a one of a kind cue design by Dave. Not even close IMO to your Southwest comparison.
So some design theft is ok? As long as it's been done a lot?
You know... it's not even worth the effort to type on the subject any more... some people get it, and some people don't. You will never be able to convince either party.
I think you're right there, it's like trying to convince people on politics.
Wow, this thread took a wild turn. How that cue could be interpreted as a blatant rip-off of the KQ I just don't understand (rings are different, boxes are different, two-boxed with barbells vs four-boxes, details within the boxes is different,....). Similar, yes, same, no. Then along comes the Capone & it's OK to sell that.
Boxes,rings,barbells,diamond shapes are all common themes,I like traditional shapes and designs .None of these are unique to this cue but ,Scott used a fresh approach with the 4 barbells that i had not seen before,he also used a different diamond shape than I had seen and different rings than I was used to.
I have seen the basic designs on several cues Gina,Szamboti, Mottey ,Blackcreek and others,and I intend to buy several more box cues with these several designs incorporated in them. I think Scott has done an excellant job and brought a fresh interpretation to the theme with the restriction to use traditional shapes dots,diamonds,boxes,diamonds,circles.
If any other cue maker thinks he can use these same basic designs and make me a nice box cue as nice as this I urge him to contact me,At the same time I urge anyone wanting a great cue by a unique new talent to contact Scott Gracio,I have found him to be polite,punctual,businesslike,and dependable which is a lot more than you can say about some if not most.He actually returns calls and was responsive to suggestions.(I am glad he talked me out of most of them)
Take a good look at this cue again,isn't it beautiful?
Dean
I have seen the basic designs on several cues Gina,Szamboti, Mottey ,Blackcreek and others,and I intend to buy several more box cues with these several designs incorporated in them. I think Scott has done an excellant job and brought a fresh interpretation to the theme with the restriction to use traditional shapes dots,diamonds,boxes,diamonds,circles.
If any other cue maker thinks he can use these same basic designs and make me a nice box cue as nice as this I urge him to contact me,At the same time I urge anyone wanting a great cue by a unique new talent to contact Scott Gracio,I have found him to be polite,punctual,businesslike,and dependable which is a lot more than you can say about some if not most.He actually returns calls and was responsive to suggestions.(I am glad he talked me out of most of them)
Take a good look at this cue again,isn't it beautiful?
Dean
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Like
what Scott stated, its his customer's design and he builds it! Anything beyond that is not his fault! The cue is beautiful and that is what matter most! I dont think the topic of being a copy cat is necessary! we all know that the Szamboti and Gina's and other cue makers design had been copied before but the topic was never brought up! I never saw Scott post anything crazy like this nor tried to ruin anybody's reputation so why do this to him?
<M>
Huh... kinda looks a little bit like this cue... maybe a little too much for my liking...
what Scott stated, its his customer's design and he builds it! Anything beyond that is not his fault! The cue is beautiful and that is what matter most! I dont think the topic of being a copy cat is necessary! we all know that the Szamboti and Gina's and other cue makers design had been copied before but the topic was never brought up! I never saw Scott post anything crazy like this nor tried to ruin anybody's reputation so why do this to him?
<M>
This is a little uncalled for. Maybe you can have a "dealer who kisses most ass to his buddy cuemakers that he reps" contest huh?
The big question will be if a customer sees a design from another cue does he have to have that same cuemaker design it because he originally created it, or can he have another cuemaker build it who he trusts or has heard good things about? If I think a cuemaker is a ***** and don't want him to build me a cue I think I have every right to have another cuemaker who I trust and like build me a similar cue if I like a design the ***** cuemaker did. I am the paying customer.
How about this
would you call Rick Phillippi a copy cat too?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=152975&highlight=phillippi
He'd done this a long time ago but was the issue ever brought up in puclic? I dont think so!
Btw, I got a word for you all that does this kind of thing - and that is, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!
<M>
would you call Rick Phillippi a copy cat too?
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=152975&highlight=phillippi
He'd done this a long time ago but was the issue ever brought up in puclic? I dont think so!
Btw, I got a word for you all that does this kind of thing - and that is, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!
<M>
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There is a tendency for some people on this forum to think they have the right to knock and criticize cuemakers who don't give them 30% discounts or more,they seem to feel like they can write critical remarks on the threads of others and steer the well deserved attention that they deserve away.
I do not appreciate the way this young cuemakers thread has been turned into the rant of special interest.
I do not appreciate the way this young cuemakers thread has been turned into the rant of special interest.
Yes. I would. And my reason for doing this is because this cue is not the ONLY example of a design that the two Rick's have 'borrowed'.
As for the similarity between Scott Gracio's cue and the Kikel, I can't say this was inspired by, copied or anything else ('cause I don't know the details). I will say this...
From what I have seen in the pictures of BOTH cues, I tend to like the Gracio a little better. Nothing personal, but for my taste, while Dave Kikel does some very nice and interesting work, I get the feeling that his ability to color coordinate (for lack of a better term) is a bit questionable. It seems to me like too often, he adds colors that just aren't needed.
To me, the two primary woods (the blackwood forearm and maple burl handle) present enough contrast for the design to stand out on its own. But when you add yellow and red barbells, its becomes a bit... kitschy.
Don't mean to offend anyone. I just think the Gracio is done just the littlest bit better, even down to the rings.
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Looks good to me!
What do I know? I spend more on cues in a year than these ball breakers make in a year.
Nick
What do I know? I spend more on cues in a year than these ball breakers make in a year.
Nick
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Both the Kikel and the Gracio cue stand on their own merits. I would be proud to own one or both of them.