How do you know if you are in the right game?

pooljunkie4ever

pooljunkie4ever

Grab Life by the BALL!
Silver Member
What do you see in a player that determines you can beat this person for the cash? for instance, I was watching a couple of guys gambling with a friend,
he made the statment " I can beat both this guys". I look at him and said,
"you crazy" you need at least the 8.
 
I look for cue ball position and stroke, stroke can take players a long time to develop. Usually a good stroke means lots of effort put into the practice.

Besides, anyone can pot a ball!
 
a lot in just watching somebody move around the table

pooljunkie4ever said:
What do you see in a player that determines you can beat this person for the cash? for instance, I was watching a couple of guys gambling with a friend,
he made the statment " I can beat both this guys". I look at him and said,
"you crazy" you need at least the 8.
Click to expand...

I watch how a person moves around the table, how they do all the common little tasks we all do at a pool table. Shot selection and how they miss a shot when they miss means as much as the shots they make.

Hu
 
I dont really look at the table at all, it can all be misleading. I watch the player.

As has been said, stroke, pre-shot, movements, etc..

I good player can throw off the balls, but rarely have I seen them throw off their routine much. its a little tell.

I watch the eyes as well, where is he/she looking says a lot as well.
 
Tells

I watch the player first, table second.

Initially, I might ask someone who has watched them play, or that knows of them, just how good they think the player is, where he is from, and how big they gamble.

The player's stance and form, where and how they grip the cue, then I watch their stroke real closely, and determine if they have any flaws in it.
By determining any flaws in their stroke, or if they hold the cue unconventionally, I can almost tell you if they will miss, and what type of shots that they will miss most often.

I then watch their habits around the table, how they inspect the table, where they look and when, preshot routine, and follow through. How they chalk a cue. You can tell if they feel comfortable moving around the table or whether it is weighing on them.

Next I evaluate their shot selection, and shape, whether they are just a good open shooter but can't bank worth beans, or whether they have the total game under control. How is there safety game is important also.
I also notice their carom and combination shots too.

I, then, and only then, will rate them, and determine if I think I could beat them or not with my normal game, not my best game.

They say 'The Devil is in the details', and that is true, because if you miss any of the details I outlined, it won't turn out like you expected it to.

One last thing - A good gambler (notice I said gambler, not player) never plays anyone without watching them play first. If you play guys cold, you are just asking to get beat.
 
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I watch peoples shot selection a lot. It can speak volumes as to their knowledge. But you have to realize that can be intentionally used for other purposes too. Position routes can be telling. I look at a players speed control. Are they over-hitting certain shots etc. In open break games, I watch how they break .
But the biggest thing of all is having the ability to accurately match what you are capable of doing consistently to what you have just watched. It requires you to put ego aside and make an accurate comparison of skill and knowledge. Is the opponent a shooter with little to no knowledge? Are they a professor with no pocketing ability etc? Are they in between the 2? On and on and on..... :grin: Then you have to know what all of the spots are worth for you and for them and how to apply them and use them to your advantage in getting a game. Can you give them this and it mean nothing etc?
Lots of things go into matching up.
Chuck
 
Interesting thread!

I'd go by where they're leaving the cue ball after each shot, which shots they're choosing and how often they miss. I think looking at the stroke can be an unreliable method in assessing a player's level - you might end up playing Keith McCready or Alex Higgins. I've also seen people that look fantastic but can't play a lick.

'Watch what the balls do' is my advice. You can still look for things in how they get down and stroke, but if the balls keep going in it scarcely matters if they look like a chicken on crack (Higgins).
 
A seasoned road dog can hide stroke but most can't hide patterns...If you see somebody missing balls but are using natural lines instead of coming across lines beware..Even the most seasoned hustlers memory muscle will usually forget this 1 lil trick.
 
tells

pooljunkie4ever said:
What do you see in a player that determines you can beat this person for the cash? for instance, I was watching a couple of guys gambling with a friend,
he made the statment " I can beat both this guys". I look at him and said,
"you crazy" you need at least the 8.
Click to expand...

I look for guys like your friend, who think they play better then they do,
and are willing to pay someone to bring them back to reality!
 
The great hustlers like Jack Cooney made big bucks by showing people exactly what they wanted them to see until the big money was on the light.
 
There are all kinds of giveaways. But when someone is really good you won't catch them.

Guys that are on the hustle, not pretenders, are not going to give you many clues. Almost none in the routine and movements and less in the things that happen on the table. Patterns, misses and 'accidental' safeties are not going to give them away. Neither will stroke or English or anything else.

I used to practice for hours on how to hold my stick 'wrong' and how to chalk like a doofus.

I would go to bars and drink my ass off and just try and mimic everyone I played all night. While barely winning.

I played for two weeks at a time wrong-handed. That includes chalking, holding your cue, keeping your car keys in the right(left) pocket, Wallet in the back left pocket, grabbing your drink and flipping the coin with the wrong hand.

It also includes switching your dominant eye btw. Unless you hold the cue under your nose, which I did for years so I could switch back and forth.

When it comes to actually playing, look at how bad players play. Lazy follow every shot. The harder they shoot, the less follow they get. They think a lot before executing a poor strategic decision. They don't look at the next ball until the CB is stopping - unless they are 'really' trying, which means they will look at the next ball with furious concentration before rolling 3 feet past their aim point and slam their cue into the table. A true hustler is going to do all of these things and more. While getting lucky and beating you because YOU missed that tough shot on the 8-ball.

If you're running around a bar to try and find chalk or a perfect tip, you just gave yourself away.

I can do ALL of these things, left handed, and still beat anybody in a random bar. Heck, I could (and have) beaten a lot of AZB players that way and they never knew who I was or that I was not a 'banger.'

There are guys I ran with in bars (not pool players) for years who never had a clue how good I really played. They just knew that if we got a money game I was in. The trouble started when they put me on their APA league team without asking me.

The only way to know for sure if you're in a bad game with a stranger is by who is holding the money at the end. If it's more money than you can afford to keep in someone else's pocket--don't play.

Of course, I'm approaching this more from the angle of bar hustling. I realize that pool hall hustling is a lot easier because you don't have to act like you can't play at all, just miss some key shots under pressure or let them have a shark move that works for a while so they think they can depend on it. Play a few sloppy patterns and miss a few safeties and anyone will think they can beat you.

~rc
 
Great post Hu! Rarely do most people watch HOW someone misses a shot. I agree that it can show a lot about how well someone plays! Nice catch...but then you HAVE been around the block a time or two!:grin:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ShootingArts said:
I watch how a person moves around the table, how they do all the common little tasks we all do at a pool table. Shot selection and how they miss a shot when they miss means as much as the shots they make.

Hu
Click to expand...
 
Bunch of great info here. A really good player told me " you don't have to be a great player to win, the biggest part of winning to matching up. If you know you can beat this certain player, than you are already on your way because you will go into the match with confidence. This is on thing I have never forgot. Some my say this is looking for a steal game, but this is not always the case. If I don't play well or if the other player is having a good day, than it is what it is.
 
I hung around pool rooms for years and never understood how people would run to play a player that just beat someone out of their money. I always thought it was smarter to play the person that just got beat, at a future date.

If your looking to gamble, you may want to use this principle. Make sure your in their league before you step-up. Don't go around thinking your better than you actually play. This kind of thinking, could be suicidal.
 
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