In regards to John Schmidt, the champion

[sfleinen]

Take the blue pill

exactly my point. i showed my ass for sure and lost my cool.
i made team csi look bad and by going out of your way to make big red letters you are not helping the situation.
so you are not removing the red therefore i know where i stand.

John:

Jeez Christmas! The only reason Scott chose the color red, is for emphasis purposes only -- to highlight the part of sjm's post for which Scott's reply speaks. He was not using the color red to "continuing the stream of casting you in a bad light." He was not using the color red to pull at your scabs, nor to needle you, nor to lob stones over the wall onto your head (shouting "nyeh nyeh" in the process).

You are the only one taking things -- and we're talking minutiae -- completely out of context, and propagating the very things you're taking exception to. In effect, you're your own worst enemy on these forums. You don't put out fires by digging up the hot coals and pouring accelerants (like gasoline) on them.

I beg you, please, to let this die. You can say what you want about being a proud person, but you are letting this very pride hurt you needlessly. Don't read into things needlessly. Some folks have certain ways they like to express things -- Scott's actually a very eloquent writer and gets his ideas across very well. Unfortunately, eloquence sometimes has a price -- those not so eloquent with the written word sometimes take offense, and things spiral out of control.

Again, to quote a scene from the movie "The Matrix" -- take the blue pill. Let this die. You've only good to offer with your exceptional skills and talent, but only your fingers on the keyboard are getting you in trouble now.

Respectfully,
-Sean

 

[mullyman]

John, I believe you owe 1,000 dollars to a charity for posting again.

Since my wife had cervical cancer this year may I suggest donating something for cervical cancer.
MULLY

 

[john schmidt]

That is a very well thought out post. I agree that some have it and some don't. But I also believe that just because you didn't make it to that level doesn't mean that no one else can either.

Another note, just to keep it straight, John wasn't "run off the board", he was the aggressor and couldn't take the heat when people started disagreeing with him, which no one was really disagreeing with him the majority of the time. They just didn't drop down and bask in the awesomeness of the Schmidt. He got his little panties in a bunch and ran out of here like a high school girl that just got felt up for the first time. Not to mention he basically called us lower level players talentless losers that will never amount to anything.

I'm wondering this, if John believes that natural ability is the key, and no amount of training is going to do it unless you have that natural talent, then why does he offer up lessons? Is he just taking people's money and laughing at them behind their backs? I'm sorry, I thought his offer of staying at his place and learning 14.1 was a fantastic offer, but if he thinks nothing can come of it then I feel doubly insulted that he would take my money and let me believe that what I was doing was going to improve my game. Thank God I never flew to America and did that weekend course. If I had done it I would ask for a refund.
MULLY

maybe you missed my apology.
if you read it and still feel this way i understand.
also the first thing i would have told you is getting lessons from me will make you better for sure ,too make you a champion might be expecting too much.i dont have a crystal ball.
again ive said im sorry if you still keep insulting me its up too you. take care

 

[accustatsfan]

maybe you missed my apology.
if you read it and still feel this way i understand.
also the first thing i would have told you is getting lessons from me will make you better for sure ,too make you a champion might be expecting too much.i dont have a crystal ball.
again ive said im sorry if you still keep insulting me its up too you. take care

Thanks for all your good advice. If you let the crazies affect you you'll probably go crazy yourself.

 

[BillPorter]

Excellent - a perceptive and dead on accurate account

Hi Randy. Hope you're well.

Let me open by saying that John is one of our game's true superstars, one who represents our sport well whenever he graces a tournament with his presence, and I usually find myself rooting for him to succeed, but ......

To be honest, in the thread on what it takes to be a champion, most posters agreed with John's assessment that few have even the potential to be champions. Those who didn't agree said so without using an aggressive, abrasive tone. These posters are entitled to their opinions, but, in a few cases, they were treated with disrespect and incivility for their views by John. In some cases, they responded to John's personal attacks with contempt, in other cases they just dealt with it. Regardless, John was, almost without exception, the aggressor and if the easily foreseen result of his numeorus disrepectful posts is that he no longer wishes to dwell in the AZB neighborhood, it's a decision all posters should respect. Nonetheless, the suggestion that he was driven away is nonsense. His aggressive, contemptive, disrespectful style of posting in the thread noted, quite predictably, brought out the worst in a few of our posters, and in the final analysis, if he is gone, he drove himself away.

FYI, just today, John posted an apology for his tirades, and it speaks well of him that he tried to mend things between himslef and the andful of posters with whom he had heated, unpleasant, exchanges with. Those posters have, subsequently, responded to John in a style of respect and reconciliation.

As for whether pros should post here, that all depends on what they seek. For example, John Schmidt himself and Danny Harriman have, in the past, used AZB to try to generate sales of DVDs of their 14.1 high runs. Other pros also use the forum to publicize and advocate purchase of their teaching aids and materials. John Schmidt, Dennis Hatch and a few other pros recently used AZB to campaign for a spot on the Mosconi Cup team. Pros such as Donnie Mills, third place finisher in this year's US Open, regularly use this forum to try to solicit action matches. All of them have gotten access to the pool community not otherwise available to them by posting in these AZB parts, and in every case, they were right to post as they did.

However, AZB is not a one-way conversation. Any pro who posts is beginning a dialogue with the pool community, which consists of good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. One advantage on AZB, however, is that anyone posting here can step away from commmicating whenever they please, simply by desisting from additional posting. When any poster, pro or not, makes that decision, it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

To sum, I have limitless respect for John Schmidt, but even he realizes that he got out of line on this occasion, and more power to him that he has come forth and said as much, because recogntion and learning from one's mistakes is also a sign of a champion, which is exactly what John is.

You are always the voice of reason and civility and one of AZ's great assets. Thanks!

 

[vagabond]

Count me in the camp that's says if you don't have the inate natural talent, then there is no way to manufacture it.

Rg

pool champions are similar to:
100 Meters Sprinters are born but not made with coaching and practice.
Teachers are born but not made.

 

[Williebetmore]

maybe you missed my apology.
if you read it and still feel this way i understand.
also the first thing i would have told you is getting lessons from me will make you better for sure ,too make you a champion might be expecting too much.i dont have a crystal ball.
again ive said im sorry if you still keep insulting me its up too you. take care

JS,
In my view, no apology was really necessary. Any forum member with skin thin enough to be offended by the discussion is overly sensitive. Everyone is free to contribute their opinion...no matter how uninformed. A little roughhousing in such threads is to be expected.

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that you must have the champion thick skin of all-time on AZB. There is no professional that has lasted as long here, nor contributed as much. You have gained more serious fans by participating here than you could have gained any other way.

Thanks for your participation, the true students of the game truly appreciate it.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

JS,
In my view, no apology was really necessary. Any forum member with skin thin enough to be offended by the discussion is overly sensitive. Everyone is free to contribute their opinion...no matter how uninformed. A little roughhousing in such threads is to be expected.

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that you must have the champion thick skin of all-time on AZB. There is no professional that has lasted as long here, nor contributed as much. You have gained more serious fans by participating here than you could have gained any other way.

Thanks for your participation, the true students of the game truly appreciate it.

A very well stated post Willie. John has many loyal fans and is much appreciated for mingling with us! That he stays with us even after all that he's been thru here speaks volumes about how he feels about his fans.

I look forward to many more of his stories and the humor he often injects into his tales!

 

[Rich93]

JS,
......
I'm surprised no one has pointed out that you must have the champion thick skin of all-time on AZB. There is no professional that has lasted as long here, nor contributed as much. You have gained more serious fans by participating here than you could have gained any other way.

Thanks for your participation, the true students of the game truly appreciate it.

Ditto from me.

 

[ShootingArts]

John, I, I think all main players in the thread

John and I and I think John and everyone he had heated words with have put it behind us. This thread was started hours after we had all buried any hard feelings. I do think that it is time to let all of these threads die.

When I see John I'll shake his hand and buy him a beer or supper if he has time and is inclined. I have helped him all I could in the past when he first released his 245 DVD which I rate as the third best instructional DVD I have out of dozens, only behind the pair of DVD's from Joe Villalpando. That is very high praise since John did not release that as an instructional DVD.(I haven't seen John's other DVD's so they aren't in the running for "best DVD", I think some of them were intended to be more instructional.)

Perhaps I'll help John in the future, perhaps not. Either way the decision won't be based on anything that happened over the last few days.

Hu

 

[Celtic]

He doesn't have the temperament to accept this calmly. Few, if any, at his level of the pool hierarchy would have that temperament.

Actually truth be told most of the people at his level of the pool hierarchy dont give a rats ass about AZB or what a bunch of people that they see as beneath them think or have to say and thus they are not here.

This is for John, who might not be posting but I would be surprised given his mentality if he is not lurking.

Most pro players KNOW who they are. They KNOW how good they are. John might "know", but he has trouble "believing" it.

How do you think Archer or Immonen would react to people on this forum trying to discredit their feats or discredit their skill? Those two guys KNOW how good they are, they have huge self confidence, and they would laugh at all of us AZB posting shortstops who post some really awesome words while they are out there beating up on world class players. Archer and Immonen don't give a flying fig about any of us, and seriously why in the sam hell would they? They think they are way above us and it is not worth their time to even respond and guess what? It is not. Even the Chris Bartram's of the world that lurk around here know enough that those are not trees to be barking up. John the last time I saw him play live was SPOTTING Chris after Chris dispatched Rodney for 20 grand and was in dead stroke.

John Schmidt, WHEN he is playing pool seriously instead of dirt biking or spending 5 hours a day posting and following threads on AZB trying to validate himself IS a world class pool player with a ridiculous amount of talent and heart and his peers ARE people like Archer and Immonen that when they see his name as their next opponent on the drawsheet know they better bloody well show up because they are likely to be in a real tough match and will have to play their best to give themselves a fair chance at the W.

John Schmidt though, he does not have the same self confidence as those 2. That is why he feels the need to "tell" everyone on AZB how good he is. Archer, Immonen, they could not care less what people on this forum think. Alot of people think Orcullo is too much for Immonen in a cash game, which I personally find laughable, Immonen instead of comming here and argueing the fact just goes and wins the world 10-ball championships to go along with most of the other major pool events he took down this year and the only guy whose opinion matters. Orcullo, I think he might admit he is not exactly gonna breeze through a long set against Immonen. He probably has more respect for Immonen's game relative to his own then most of the people on this forum and he would be the first to admit that the match would be bloody tough, and at the end of the day that is all that really matters. Immonen cares what his peers think, not what a bunch of goofballs that spend their time posting on a silly forum and most of whom have a pinnicle of their pool year spent in Vagas playing in an amateur championship. And no offense to those goofballs, I am one of you, see ya all in Vegas.

John, stop friggin dirt biking, stop talking to a bunch of people that are beneath you. That groups of your peers, Dennis Hatch, Putnam, ect... that were here for abit looking for votes, notice where they are now. The group of people on this forum are best left to prattle on amoungst themselves while you go play pool and give them something to actually talk about. Forget this crap and this forum.

At the end of the day the same people that are posting on here trying to discredit you and knock you down a peg on the internet are the same guys that walk by you at the BCA in Vegas after THEY lost their last match on a bar box against some other nobody while you walk to your next PROFESSIONAL level 10-ball match against some other pro. And all the while those mouthpieces are doing nothing more then wispering under their breath "that there is John Schmidt!" when it comes to being their in person right in front of you. REMEMBER THAT! It does not mean a bloody thing what people say on these forums, it matters WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT YOURSELF!

 

[sjm]

You know, after all is said and done, none of this matters a lick.

A man is judged by the entire body of his work, not by a single incident, and John is a proven champion who conducts himself with professionalism and distinction. He is a credit to our sport and any sponsor associated with him is fortunate indeed.

A couple of my more vivid memories of John in 2009:

Derby City One Pocket
John was as humble as humble can be in snapping off the one pocket event, happy to proclaim himself a cinderella as he tried to knock off some time-tested one pocket supergurus. When the smoke cleared, however, John not only won but went undefeated, and his victory smile lit up the room.

Valley Forge 10-ball
John played well to reach the final against Corey Deuel, who was shooting lights out all week. The final seemed to be going Corey's way, but John rallied late to reach 12-12, double hill. Corey gained control of the table in the final rack, and it seemed he was on his way, but the five ball skidded and it proved fatal. When John addressed the crowd after being presented with the winner's trophy, he offered some consolation to Corey and added that "it was one of the luckiest wins of my career." In his demeanor, John demonstrated respect for a fellow pro, empathy for a friend, and a whole lot of class. If you were there, surely you remember it well.

I hope that by providing these two examples, I've explained why I feel so strongly that John is a wonderful presence in our sport. No disrespect to very deserving Dennis Hatch, but I wish a few more of you had joined me in supporting John's bid to play for America in the Mosconi Cup, because he's such a great representative of American pool.

I can't wait to cheer for John at Derby City next month, and hope you'll join me in wishing him every success there.

 

[JoeW]

Half the people who know me don't like me. I don't know which half and I don't care. Now I can have fun in life.

It takes a man to apologize and that is good enough for me to think I would like to know John better.

I think many would agree with the latter statement.

 

[Aaron Reidell]

I am a firm believer that people can reach their goals, even though for some it is obviously going to be a lot tougher than others.

Regardless of whether everyone can be a champion, what everyone CAN do is improve their attitudes and maybe pool rooms wouldnt be such a frustrating place to be sometimes. Obviously 95 percent of people in pool room are generally alright but those other 5 percent can be a certified pain in the ass.

Regardless of whether anyone becomes a world champion or not, you can definitly adopt the attitude of one.

As far as John Schmidt goes, i believe he has the attitude of a champion, he is just an emotional guy and sometimes says stuff in the heat of the moment. I fall into that category at times as well and im sure many of you do too, so maybe we shouldnt be so quick to judge. Remember, that fire he has is what makes him such a great competitor. Just my opinion.

 

[9baller]

First, I'd like to say that recently I haven't been posting much and hardly ever start a new thread, although I daily read the goings on here.

After reading the "what it takes to be a champion" thread and Johns subsequent leaving the forum, I feel compelled to post.

My personal experience is as follows;

I first started playing seriously in the late 80's, early nineties at Chelsea billiards in NYC. Of course I played earlier in life, but it wasn't until then that I was surrounded by shortstops, hustlers and champions.

I befriended Ginky back then, when he was a low B player. He went on to eventually become the BCA champion. He practiced more than most pros ever do. He progressed so fast though, that anyone with eyes knew underlying everythin was natural talent.

George mikula taught me how to play pool. He and I both knew I didn't have that natural talent, but he taught me because he loved my desire. He told me then that all great players had top level muscle memory abilities, eye hand coordination, and keen eyesight. He believed that just desire and hard work could NOT get just anyone across the finish line.

Now I have been blessed that I van say I've "trained" with real champions. Since 2003 I have probably played over 10,000 hours. I've probably played 1000 hours with Ginky. For a year and a half, I played EVERYDAY A MINIMUM of 8 hours a day, sometimes 12 or 13 hours, with Thorsten Hohmann. Over the last 7 years I have played a significant amount of time, as friends (not in tournaments, action or as a student), with such champions as Charlie Williams, Johnny Archer, Mika, ervolino, lipsky, barouty, and others, including John Schmidt a time or two. The time spent on the (there has been many more) table with these folks wasn't casual and I mention these folks in particular because they genuinely wanted to help improve my game. And it did. I have been fortunate being retired in my 30's that I could dedicate myself entirely to pool during this time. I started as a c player. At my best, I improved to a steady b+ player and at my very best I could play very abbreviated periods of A speed 14.1 (3 innings in a 100 point game).

All this to say that I had every advantage. Champions to play with, unlimited practice time, the best equipment and indefinite sources of pool readily shared pool knowledge. I consider myself to have above average intelligence and above average phsysical skills. I was, a long time ago, a very skilled wrestler, even competing in Olympic qualifiers. With regards to pool though, I didn't have the "natural talent", and this is why I'll never be a world champion, or a touring pro, or even a regional shortstop. Either you have it or you don't.

As an example, Thorsten played pro speed within 2 years of picking up a cue. Within 2 more years he won the world 9 ball championships. Sure he practiced, but not 10 hours a day. And come on, within 2 years playing like that????

I believ that there are many people in the US who could play pro speed pool, who will never know because they will never pick up a cue. If you have been playing a few years already, and haven't quickly progressed to a shortstop level, chances are you never will.

Sure there are the rare occurences, the seldom abberations. Tommy Kennedy comes to mind. Not a lot of talent, but more than most, who plays stellar pool for a few months straight, and snaps a big one off to become a legend. Realistically though, how many are like that out of the millions that have EVER played?

For those that chased John away, I hope your happy. Every pro that has ever posted here has been chased away, inluding Thorsten. It is true what John said, that the pros do try and persuade other pros not to post on AZ. They laugh at us and belittle us. I have personally heard it, a few different times. The way John was treated is the reason. And he was one of the few who stuck around, for whatever reason. Some here feel he was obligated to come here and teach and share his wisdom. Truth is, he's not.

I agree with JAM that John shouldn't come here anymore if the experience isn't enjoyable. That goes for any member.

Count me in the camp that's says if you don't have the inate natural talent, then there is no way to manufacture it.

Rg

I thought thorsten started playing at age 11. Anyone know?

 

[Bob Callahan]

This is interesting:

http://www.expert-tennis-tips.com/are-tennis-champions-born-or-made.html

 

[mullyman]

maybe you missed my apology.
if you read it and still feel this way i understand.
also the first thing i would have told you is getting lessons from me will make you better for sure ,too make you a champion might be expecting too much.i dont have a crystal ball.
again ive said im sorry if you still keep insulting me its up too you. take care

As you may have noticed, John, I removed that post from here. That was after reading your apology. I was guilty of replying without reading every post to date.

I'm still going to jab at you for that $1,000 donation to a charity you said you'd make if you ever posted here again. I suggested cervical cancer since it struck so close to home for me this year. Because of that filthy fkkin disease my wife and I will never be able to have children. The charity is of course up to you, but no matter which one you choose I hope you are a man of your word and make that donation.
MULLY

 

[Fatboy]

John and I and I think John and everyone he had heated words with have put it behind us. This thread was started hours after we had all buried any hard feelings. I do think that it is time to let all of these threads die.

When I see John I'll shake his hand and buy him a beer or supper if he has time and is inclined. I have helped him all I could in the past when he first released his 245 DVD which I rate as the third best instructional DVD I have out of dozens, only behind the pair of DVD's from Joe Villalpando. That is very high praise since John did not release that as an instructional DVD.(I haven't seen John's other DVD's so they aren't in the running for "best DVD", I think some of them were intended to be more instructional.)

Perhaps I'll help John in the future, perhaps not. Either way the decision won't be based on anything that happened over the last few days.

Hu

I sure would like that to happen with you and I Hu, I know your still pissed at me. I have done everything I know to do to earn your respect back. And JoeyA's as well.

sincerly,

eric

 

[JB Cases]

My opinion on this is that if someone doesn't progress to shortstop or better speed with top notch instruction then they are not dedicated and won't truly immerse themselves in the game.

Sorry but I too have had plenty of lessons and advice from top pros but I never lived the life.

You have to eat sleep and drink pool to get anywhere with it.

But, I will say that I am probably too optimistic about ANYONE being able to reach that speed because I just remembered the story of Bob from Danny Basavich's book. Bob did immerse himself in pool trying to get there and never did get much past shortstop on the good days. He tried everything, emulating the Filipinos, ingesting whatever he could about how to play pool from whatever source he could find.

So who knows.

Andre Agassi just wrote a book that outlines the way a champion is formed from an early age but he hated it. He worked harder at getting good because he wanted to be out of tennis camp and on the road. But anyone who follows Agassi's career knows that he was never a Sampras or Federer. He is an example of a made champion and not a born one and he knows it.

So like I said I said I do still believe that someone can be made into a world class pool player. But they probably have to work much much harder than those to whom it just comes naturally.

And this I believe was the core of John's statements.

And people, please, this debate - nurture vs. nature - is NEVER going to end until at some point a scientist can put someone in a chair and tweak them and then that person can get up, go to a pool table and run balls until they drop dead from exhaustion.

I am however certain that at some point neuroscientists will discover what it is in our brains that makes something "come easy" to one person but not to another. They will develop drugs that turn those parts of our brain on and off and that will change the landscape. We already have this in some forms.

I would bet anything that all top players in pool experiement with their own body chemistry to put themselves into whatever Zen state they need to be in in order to play their best. That could be eating fruit, exercise, herbs, illegal drugs, legal drugs, hypnosis, whatever.....

I read the other day that some Buddhist monks have taken MDMA (Ecstasy) to assist them in meditation. So if even the Buddhists can't achieve it without help what chance do the rest of have.

The point of this pointless rambling is that what we consider natural talent or the lack therof is most likely just a result of a person's brain being wired a certain way. Some people are fearless in the face of imminent danger while others are scared by every little noise.

So let's keep in mind that we in fact don't know what makes us tick. At the end of the day a champion is someone who has overcome all obstacles and achieved the pinnacle of whatever endeavor he undertook to take. Some get there easier than others but the result is the same, for that moment they are the best there is. And if they can sustain that level of performance then they can make history as being among the best there ever was.

John, thanks for hanging out with us.

Randy, thanks for your insight.

SJM - I can't rep you any more.

Everyone else - go play some pool!!!!

Have fun.

 

[sjm]

I thought thorsten started playing at age 11. Anyone know?

Here's some of what Billiards Digest wrote in its September 2006 article covering Thorsten's historic victory in the IPT Las Vegas 8-ball event.

"It seemed that Hohmann had been preparing himself for this tournament for most of his 27 years. Born and raised in the quiet city of Fulda, Germany, Hohmann played chess, soccer, ping-pong and trumpet before discovering pool around age 12. Immediately obsessed with the game, he started spending as many as six hours a day at the local billiard club. He won his first juniors event within five months. He soon had the keys to the club, and all but forgot about soccer, trumpet, and even school. For four years, I hardly ever saw daylight,” he said."

Sounds like he began at 12, and was investing huge amounts of time practicing even then.