Dominent Eye Quiz for All You AZ'ers

[ICUE]

So far so good

I have been following this thread and like some others I have been waiting for the punch line. But when I read the tip on lining up on the shot then closing your non dominant eye on straight in shots I thought I would give that a try just to see what the results would be. Sure enough when I closed that eye, what I preceived to be straight was a little off. So I moved my head a little to the left so that my stick was more under my eye instead of my chin, probably not more than 1/2 inch and the shot looked straight. It was length of the table shot and I shot it in. No biggy I make those all the time. But here is what I found out for me and this new head position. While shooting shots, some shots looked right I would shoot them and they would go in. Other shots would look just as right but they would not go in. Usually I would under cut them. So I learned to aim thinner and even though in never looked right I could pocket the ball. Now with this new head position I found that I was over cutting these shots. So I tried setting up again and lined up what looked right and the balls started going in. This would be a really good if I could just look at the shot and shoot it as opposed to trying to figure out just how much compensation I need to make in order to pocket the ball.
I spent over an hour and I am very pleased with what could be something that could really help me improve. So even if I don't get the punch line, this thread has really been valuable to me. Thanks everyone for there input

 

[marek]

....or it may be outside your 'field of vision' (meaning you may or may not tilt your head to one side)..
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hi Scott!
Why didnt you say so earlier???? As you may remember I have always struggled with my aiming, even when I made two triple digit runs in 14-1 last month I just felt that I fought with my aim. When I read this yesterday it struck me like a lightning! In every book I read about pool there is a clear instruction that a player should have his eyes level, no tilt at all. So when my wife told me that my head is tilted a little to the left when shooting pool (my dominant eye side) I thought that it is the reason for my aiming struggle. But when I read your post I asked myself: what if I am the one who needs to tilt my head to see the shot right? So I went to the table and tried to tilt my head a little bit more. Guess what? I could see clear picture, no ghost pictures at all! Just out of curiosity: what is your estimate on how many players out of 100 actually needs to tilt their head to see clear picture? Do you know what is the reason for this condition?
Thx Marek

 

[genomachino]

There are 4 distinct eye positions................

i enjoyed the posts geno.recently while aiming ill move the left through the middle to the right back and forth till i home in on the spot that clicks as being correct .then pull the trigger.I've had good results with this and it s been working for me.i guess my question would be could certain players need different eye position for certain shots. any input woul be appreciated.

Hi there bryanschmidt,

You are basically doing what I call the wiggle method. Move the head back and forth and you will go past this perfect spot to the right and the left. That's pretty good.

This is why players have so much trouble. Nobody teaches this as far as I know.

There are 4 distinct eye positions to learn on different types of shots.
The straight in shot,the thin cuts,all the angle shots and aiming for a spot. This is what I teach with Perfect Aim. And basically I have found this for myself and finally incorperated it into a lesson so everyone can learn it.

Also there are different hieghts that some shots are easier to see. It is not always one hieght for all shots.

I try to tell players that this is the answer and all I get is a whole bunch trying to stop it. I don't really understand.

With Perfect Aim the answers are there. You know the questions to ask but many players don't even know what to ask. Once a player obtains the Perfect Aim knowledge they have to work at it and apply it. it works for everyone.

Oh oh, here we go again. Look out.

Have a great day Geno.............

 

[genomachino]

This is what it's all about....Perfect Aim...ONE SPOT

I have been following this thread and like some others I have been waiting for the punch line. But when I read the tip on lining up on the shot then closing your non dominant eye on straight in shots I thought I would give that a try just to see what the results would be. Sure enough when I closed that eye, what I preceived to be straight was a little off. So I moved my head a little to the left so that my stick was more under my eye instead of my chin, probably not more than 1/2 inch and the shot looked straight. It was length of the table shot and I shot it in. No biggy I make those all the time. But here is what I found out for me and this new head position. While shooting shots, some shots looked right I would shoot them and they would go in. Other shots would look just as right but they would not go in. Usually I would under cut them. So I learned to aim thinner and even though in never looked right I could pocket the ball. Now with this new head position I found that I was over cutting these shots. So I tried setting up again and lined up what looked right and the balls started going in. This would be a really good if I could just look at the shot and shoot it as opposed to trying to figure out just how much compensation I need to make in order to pocket the ball.
I spent over an hour and I am very pleased with what could be something that could really help me improve. So even if I don't get the punch line, this thread has really been valuable to me. Thanks everyone for there input

Hi there ICUE

This is why I traveled all over the USA for 8 months teaching Perfect Aim. This is why we sold a bucket load of dvds and have alot of happy pool players all over the world. Word of mouth goes a long way.......

You are just starting to understand part of the whole picture. If you had the whole enchelada you wouldn't be able to wait everyday to get to the table and try what you have learned.

I know because I'm still doing it. This game of pool is so exciting and being able to improve so much so fast is even more exciting.

I just got back from the Twin Cities and giving these Perfect Aim lessons is the most rewarding thing I have ever done in my life. Everytime I show someone and see the results I can't wait to find someone else to teach.

It's players like yourself that want to learn that are the funnest to teach. And make me want to teach more.

Thanks for your input. Have a great day Geno..............

 

[genomachino]

Outside your eye is not in this middle..............

I'll be curious to see how your "middle" is different from my "vision center:"

vision center: the head alignment that allows you to see a center-ball straight-in shot as straight, with the tip appearing to be at the center of the CB. For some people, this might be with the cue under their dominant eye (if they have one). For others, it might be with the cue under their nose, or somewhere else between their eyes (or even outside of the eyes?).​

Regards,
Dave

Hi there Dave,

All the other spots you mentioned are in this middle. Except the outside your eye one. A player might appear to be outside their eye when in fact if we could see what they see they would be right on the edge of their middle area.

Scott frost is one of these. If he was really outside of his vision it would be like shooting a shotgun from your side without your head over it. That wouldn't work very good.

Many players are worried about head tilts when really this almost makes it easier to aim sometimes. Reason being is it makes this middle area smaller. There is a little less room to get in the wrong spot when they aim. You are arificially making the eyes closer together.

Have a great day geno..............:smile:

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

The one thing Geno forget to point out in all his post about "perfect aiming", "dominant eyes" is ad people age they loose perfect vision, depth perception, and may have physical problem that interfere with being able to achieve perfect TEXT BOOK STANCE, etc.

Hell Willie Hoppie, & Keith McCready both shoot sid saddle, as apparently they started playing pool at a young age, and shot off of wooden boxes because of height problems. They need the help of the box to be able to be taller. Both over came, and because they did they were great PLAYER.

IMHO "BOX SYSTEMS DON'T NOT WORKFOR EVERYONE", as each of us have different abilities, vision problems, and physical problems to deal with when playing pool.

IMHO Mastering Basis is the KEY TO SUCCESSFUL Pool Playing, Gold or any Sport as without Mastering Basic you are SOL.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The one thing Geno forget to point out in all his post about "perfect aiming", "dominant eyes" is ad people age they loose perfect vision, depth perception, and may have physical problem that interfere with being able to achieve perfect TEXT BOOK STANCE, etc.

Hell Willie Hoppie, & Keith McCready both shoot sid saddle, as apparently they started playing pool at a young age, and shot off of wooden boxes because of height problems. They need the help of the box to be able to be taller. Both over came, and because they did they were great PLAYER.

IMHO "BOX SYSTEMS DON'T NOT WORKFOR EVERYONE", as each of us have different abilities, vision problems, and physical problems to deal with when playing pool.

IMHO Mastering Basis is the KEY TO SUCCESSFUL Pool Playing, Gold or any Sport as without Mastering Basic you are SOL.

I'm laying in bed right now eating chocolate chip cookies and a few chocolate/peanut butter cookies. My mouth is full and life is full of bliss. The only thing better than this would be to read a post from an az-5 saying that unless you master the basics, you're SOL. *crunch* *munch*

 

[ChopStick]

The one thing Geno forget to point out in all his post about "perfect aiming", "dominant eyes" is ad people age they loose perfect vision, depth perception, and may have physical problem that interfere with being able to achieve perfect TEXT BOOK STANCE, etc.

Howdy Cowboy. This a good point and one that has been affecting me as I get older. Irving Crane once said that the stick should be positioned in the center of your visual field. Both eyes do not have identical visual strength. You can be 20:20 in one eye and 20:30 in the other. Also as you age the strength in one eye relative to the other can change.

This means that the center of your visual field, that point where the vision from each eye is balanced and equal, is not going to be exactly in the physical mid point between the eyes. It will be offset to one side or the other. As you age and your eyes change that offset spot will move and if you have been aiming with it for thirty years as I have, you will wake up one day and shots you have been making all of those years will no longer go.

I have the Perfect Aim DVD and I have spoken to Gene on the phone about it. I think that his method is similar to zeroing the scope on a rifle. It offers a consistent way to check the calibration of your sights and make adjustments. Another tool that is good, although it looks silly, is Joe Tucker's pitchfork looking thing. Using it I discovered that what I see as the center of the cue ball is not actually the center. It is about an eighth of an inch to the right. My alignment with the object balls carries a similar error.

As a result, I as most everyone does, develop compensations from instinct and experience. These compensations are the source of inconsistency. Removing compensations will lower the inconsistency factor and I will finally break a @#!#%!$$!%$#%&@%$&$&$% hundred at straight pool. Anyway, that is my theory.

 

[ShootingArts]

tilt

Hi Scott!
Why didnt you say so earlier???? As you may remember I have always struggled with my aiming, even when I made two triple digit runs in 14-1 last month I just felt that I fought with my aim. When I read this yesterday it struck me like a lightning! In every book I read about pool there is a clear instruction that a player should have his eyes level, no tilt at all. So when my wife told me that my head is tilted a little to the left when shooting pool (my dominant eye side) I thought that it is the reason for my aiming struggle. But when I read your post I asked myself: what if I am the one who needs to tilt my head to see the shot right? So I went to the table and tried to tilt my head a little bit more. Guess what? I could see clear picture, no ghost pictures at all! Just out of curiosity: what is your estimate on how many players out of 100 actually needs to tilt their head to see clear picture? Do you know what is the reason for this condition?
Thx Marek

Marek,

Obviously I'm not Scott but I noticed something interesting playing with eye dominance a few days ago. Tilting or twisting the head slightly makes it easier to swap eye dominance or make the dominant eye more strongly dominant at least for me. No idea as to why or if this is true for everyone.

Hu

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I'm laying in bed right now eating chocolate chip cookies and a few chocolate/peanut butter cookies.

Enjoy your cookies. Did you bake them yourself in school, cooking class?

 

[ShootingArts]

The "chicken aiming system"

i enjoyed the posts geno.recently while aiming ill move the left through the middle to the right back and forth till i home in on the spot that clicks as being correct .then pull the trigger.I've had good results with this and it s been working for me.i guess my question would be could certain players need different eye position for certain shots. any input woul be appreciated.

I was seriously into outdoor photography a few years back and spent countless hours watching and photographing wading birds. One thing I noticed, particularly when lining up a long strike or striking underwater, they usually moved their head side to side getting a better perspective and lining up on the target better. One day at the pool hall I was faced with a tough cut shot at the other end of the table. Partially because my eyes aren't what they were, partially because I don't trust my eyes, these shots give me hell. Mostly clowning I moved my head back and forth like the birds do. It indeed gave me a much clearer perception of my target and it's relationship to the pocket. Also by moving through the range to both sides of the perfect position we are able to find the center of the "perfect position" rather than one edge.

In my early days of photographing birds I didn't know what most of them were, still don't. I'd post images on photography sites and simply title them, big chicken, little chicken, wading chicken, field chicken, whatever. All birds were chickens. That is how this aiming system came to be known as The Chicken Aiming System, I learned it from wading chickens. :grin: :grin:

Hu

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Howdy Cowboy. This a good point and one that has been affecting me as I get older. Irving Crane once said that the stick should be positioned in the center of your visual field. Both eyes do not have identical visual strength. You can be 20:20 in one eye and 20:30 in the other. Also as you age the strength in one eye relative to the other can change.

This means that the center of your visual field, that point where the vision from each eye is balanced and equal, is not going to be exactly in the physical mid point between the eyes. It will be offset to one side or the other. As you age and your eyes change that offset spot will move and if you have been aiming with it for thirty years as I have, you will wake up one day and shots you have been making all of those years will no longer go.

I have the Perfect Aim DVD and I have spoken to Gene on the phone about it. I think that his method is similar to zeroing the scope on a rifle. It offers a consistent way to check the calibration of your sights and make adjustments. Another tool that is good, although it looks silly, is Joe Tucker's pitchfork looking thing. Using it I discovered that what I see as the center of the cue ball is not actually the center. It is about an eighth of an inch to the right. My alignment with the object balls carries a similar error.

As a result, I as most everyone does, develop compensations from instinct and experience. These compensations are the source of inconsistency. Removing compensations will lower the inconsistency factor and I will finally break a @#!#%!$$!%$#%&@%$&$&$% hundred at straight pool. Anyway, that is my theory.

Think the one thing many people are looking for is a Magic System, Magic Cue, Magic Chalk, Magic Tip, and with those items they think they will be GREAT POOL PLAYERS...Sorry to say there is NO MAGIC.

Willie Hoppy, Willie Mosconi, and other GREAT PLAYERS are what they are because of Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice.

Today there is a BOAT LOAD of GREAT POOL INSTRUCTION FREE ON THE NET, Books, DVD's, many FREE TO USE at the local library, and for sale in many places.

You don't become a GREAT ANYTHING by BUYING A DVD, or BOOK, and carrying it with you 7 x 24 x 365, you got to Practice, and Know the BASICS. IMHO.

If you are looking for Magic there is no Magic, and this GUY PROVES it Weekly on TV.

 

[Siz]

Chicken aiming system

I... Mostly clowning I moved my head back and forth like the birds do. It indeed gave me a much clearer perception of my target and it's relationship to the pocket. Also by moving through the range to both sides of the perfect position we are able to find the center of the "perfect position" rather than one edge...

Hu - you didn't give lessons to Mark Selby did you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sicXWlZLuXg&feature=PlayList&p=4D38561AB4C03BB4&index=1 (actually, you can probably find clips of him moving his head more than this - he has become relatively static recently :grin: )

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Hi there,

If you were to watch me shoot I appear to have the cue in the middle also. You could not tell which eye is doing the most work because the difference one way or another is so small. When you are seeing through your own eyes though the difference is huge.

If a player is real strong eye dominent then it is easy to tell but most of us are not like this. Or if you were one of these pheonoms that shoot with only one eye.

All the rest of us aim from this middle and the players that aim the best are the ones that do this naturally the best and get the eyes in the most correct position.

If I am playing a player I always figure out which eye is the stronger one. When I play safe or push out I try to make them shoot the shot the way that is more difficult to shoot. This will give me anywhere from a 10% to 20% advantage that they will not execute the shot the way they want to. This alone has won quite a few matches for me.

If this was so easy to see and understand alot of players would already know this.

Try this once just to prove a point. Look at an object. Put your hand over your right eye. Now move it out about six inches in front of your eye but make sure if you are only looking through this eye you cannot see the object.

Now keep your hand there and look at the object with both eyes open. You know that the object is blocked from your vision with your right eye but with both eyes open it appears you can still see through both eyes but you see kind of a ghost hand. Many people would argue that they are seeing the object with the right eye even though it is obviously blocked. You can prove it to them by just having them close the left eye and look.

This is what I do when I teach Perfect Aim. I don't just tell them but I show them so they understand it themselves. Otherwise there can be alot of confusion.

This is why it is so hard for a player to know which eye is doing what and have the eyes in this best position.

This is why some players aim great and others really struggle with aiming. The eye that is doing the aiming is just a little off. But in some cases the eye is way off. This is why there are 3 and 4 ratings in many leagues. There shouldn't be any 3 or 4's if they actually understood how to get the eyes in the right position.

In the APA league in Phoenix I worked with about about 10 players one week. Doug ran the league. I talked to him about a week later and he told me he had a complaint. I was screwing up his league. He was joking of course. He told me they needed the 3's and 4's in the league to keep their averages down for the team. Then he asked me when he could get a lesson.

Hi Doug if you read this. Doud and his wife are good people. They are right there every night helping with anything that needs to be done with their leagues. It's not a mistake that their leagues with the APA are doing so good. They enjoy doing what they are doing with everyone and it shows. Keep up the good work................

Can you imagine if you compared this aiming in pool with driving a car.

Driving a car is aiming also. It is just much easier to see naturally. Everyone aims a car real well. If they aimed the car like they aim a pool shot the road would not be a safe place to be.

Also with some players this middle is very small. These players can aim much better naturally than players with a small middle because there is less room for error when they are just naturally looking.

In the Perfect Aim video I just try to keep it simple and try to help players know where they need to get for themselves on all shots. There is still some guessing but at least they can get close to where they need to get.

Have you ever gotten down on a pool shot and the shot doesn't look right. Now you get back up and get back down and now it looks better. The first time the eyes were in the wrong spot. It might not be too far off but it doesn"t have to be to not look right. The second time it looks better in fact it looks great. If you would have shot the first time you might have missed because the eyes were not in the most correct position.

This middle I talk about is this area where the shot still looks OK to shoot but it is not the best if your eyes are in the wrong place and it is very easy to not have them in the best position.

Players have more trouble shooting to the right or the left. If you set up a 1/4 hit and shoot it 25 times to the left and 25 times to the right you will find one way will be much more difficult to shoot.

You will find that if you are right eye dominent your trouble will be cutting to the left. If the left is dominent trouble will be cutting to the right.

I'm not just blowing smoke here. I am teaching players this everyday with great success. This is why some players defend Perfect Aim so adamently. It is the way it is. Seeing is believing.....:grin-square:

Players need to know this to see the shots the best that they can. This is why so many players can't seem to get any better. They just keep making the same judgement errors with the eyes that they always make when all they need to do is just learn where that natural sight is and learn how to find it on every shot.

It's pretty exciting for the players that have learned.

I hope this clears it up for you.

Thanks for the comments Geno............

Sounds like your "middle" is the same as Dave's "vision center". This has been discussed a number of times here on AZB. I even remember talking about it on RSB many years ago.

pj
chgo

 

[grindz]

I don't know what heck I am looking at!

LOL.....

I do..... you're looking at your thumb!! :wink: J/K Actually, I never even noticed it until you talked about it a few times.

Every time I see you play, you've gotten better! Keep up the hard work.

I guess I can't rep you yet .. so Happy and safe holidays to you and your family...

td

 

[grindz]

Hi there Dave,

All the other spots you mentioned are in this middle. Except the outside your eye one. A player might appear to be outside their eye when in fact if we could see what they see they would be right on the edge of their middle area.

Scott frost is one of these. If he was really outside of his vision it would be like shooting a shotgun from your side without your head over it. That wouldn't work very good.

Many players are worried about head tilts when really this almost makes it easier to aim sometimes. Reason being is it makes this middle area smaller. There is a little less room to get in the wrong spot when they aim. You are arificially making the eyes closer together.


Have a great day geno..............:smile:

For anyone trying to copy Scott's method..... good luck. :smile: Watching him on a stream the other day.. he has the most unique style from stroke to head position of anyone I have ever seen. He must have figured out the vision thing at an early point, and rocketed from there.

I think that your vision findings may the the decisive factor as to how players become players, and the struggle of most beginners to actually 'see' the right thing may be what determines if they like the game or not, and proceed with it or not. Probably the ones who thrive in the game from the start, are really the ones who can 'see' it correctly.

Hopefully every pool room in the country gets your dvd, and plays it each day. Just think if all the newbies could get this step up, and how much enjoyment they could get immediately..... the rooms would explode with new clientelle, as would pool in general.

Tap tap tap... for your zeal. Hope you can change the game!

td

 

[Big C]

Think the one thing many people are looking for is a Magic System, Magic Cue, Magic Chalk, Magic Tip, and with those items they think they will be GREAT POOL PLAYERS...Sorry to say there is NO MAGIC.

Willie Hoppy, Willie Mosconi, and other GREAT PLAYERS are what they are because of Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice.

Today there is a BOAT LOAD of GREAT POOL INSTRUCTION FREE ON THE NET, Books, DVD's, many FREE TO USE at the local library, and for sale in many places.

You don't become a GREAT ANYTHING by BUYING A DVD, or BOOK, and carrying it with you 7 x 24 x 365, you got to Practice, and Know the BASICS. IMHO.

If you are looking for Magic there is no Magic, and this GUY PROVES it Weekly on TV.

Well said CoCo. Let me just add one thing. If you want to get better, you need to step up and compete against better players. I'm not the first to say it, but I firmly believe it. Don't be afraid to take an ass-whipping. If it happens, learn from it and you will get stronger.

 

[dr_dave]

Hu,

Here's a "chicken head stabilization" video you might like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dPlkFPowCc​

Although, chickens don't play pool very well ... except this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFghq9q-rG4​

Enjoy,
Dave

I was seriously into outdoor photography a few years back and spent countless hours watching and photographing wading birds. One thing I noticed, particularly when lining up a long strike or striking underwater, they usually moved their head side to side getting a better perspective and lining up on the target better. One day at the pool hall I was faced with a tough cut shot at the other end of the table. Partially because my eyes aren't what they were, partially because I don't trust my eyes, these shots give me hell. Mostly clowning I moved my head back and forth like the birds do. It indeed gave me a much clearer perception of my target and it's relationship to the pocket. Also by moving through the range to both sides of the perfect position we are able to find the center of the "perfect position" rather than one edge.

In my early days of photographing birds I didn't know what most of them were, still don't. I'd post images on photography sites and simply title them, big chicken, little chicken, wading chicken, field chicken, whatever. All birds were chickens. That is how this aiming system came to be known as The Chicken Aiming System, I learned it from wading chickens. :grin: :grin:

Hu

 

[genomachino]

That was great........ Thanks............

Hu,

Here's a "chicken head stabilization" video you might like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dPlkFPowCc​

Although, chickens don't play pool very well ... except this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFghq9q-rG4​

Enjoy,
Dave

Hi there Dave,

I'm going to start practicing this with my head right away. First though I'm going to work on chicken language so I can get a personal lesson. :grin-square:

Thanks Dave Have a great day geno..............

 

[genomachino]

My favorite Perfect Aim guy.............

Think the one thing many people are looking for is a Magic System, Magic Cue, Magic Chalk, Magic Tip, and with those items they think they will be GREAT POOL PLAYERS...Sorry to say there is NO MAGIC.

Willie Hoppy, Willie Mosconi, and other GREAT PLAYERS are what they are because of Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice.

Today there is a BOAT LOAD of GREAT POOL INSTRUCTION FREE ON THE NET, Books, DVD's, many FREE TO USE at the local library, and for sale in many places.

You don't become a GREAT ANYTHING by BUYING A DVD, or BOOK, and carrying it with you 7 x 24 x 365, you got to Practice, and Know the BASICS. IMHO.

If you are looking for Magic there is no Magic, and this GUY PROVES it Weekly on TV.

Hi there Cowboy,

Your Avatar says it all. I can always count on you. Kind of comical.

Maybe someday when I get back to Phoenix, and I will, I'll show you how this works and why so many players have improved their games so quickly.

I think your great. Your one of my biggest followers...

Have a great day. And a Merry Christmas Geno..............:grin-square: