Dominent Eye Quiz for All You AZ'ers

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
one eyed wonders

The "best" or most accurate way to throw a baseball is by using both eyes. -- Try it for yourself.

The most accurate way to throw a cue ball is with both eyes. Now that needs to be tested doesn't it?

BTW we do "throw" a cue ball in three dimensions because you stand above the line of travel on that two dimensional surface.

Over long distances, such as length of table shots, one eyed shooting may be beneficial or it may just be a habit that feels right because the player has learned that it works. Can't really know until you try it both ways.

FWIW - when I first started working on my alignment, many moons ago,
one of the things I tried for a while was shooting with my non-dominant
eye closed. I thought this might be better for me, because my
non-dominant eye is also very weak visually - legaly blind actually.

Couple that with the fact that I was, tho I was unaware of it at the time,
strongly dominant in one eye, I might represent some kind of far end
of the spectrum of eye preference.

Well, it turned out that I couldn't shoot a lick with one eye closed.
It never occured to me that looooong shots might be easier, I'll have
to give that area a try next time I'm pounding balls.

However, closing my non-dominant did help with getting the shaft right under my shooting eye - somthing I had been struggling with - likely
because the change for me was so drastic.

Dale
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the info..........

Eye dominance is not a good or bad thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance

It is unwise to change a person's ocular dominance, although certain occasions may necessitate this rather drastic action. The dominant eye for distance vision (six metres upwards) may not be the same eye for intermediate or near vision (2/3 metre). If no definite dominance exists, then blurring or occluding one eye is of help.
See http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0148.htm

Does eye dominance matter – yes, no, a definite maybe !
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=1894a00f18b2c50c89a6623dcb8df0af

“Binocular vision facilitates the estimation of distance, speed and angle and helps one to gain the full benefits of natural hand to eye co-ordination. If you doubt it try catching a ball with one eye shut. But, do not believe those who say simplistically that everyone should shoot with two eyes.” Lots of good stuff here.

http://www.shootinggazette.co.uk/sh..._eye_dominance_and_improve_your_shooting.html

And for those who want to get serious about this topic …

“Thus, it appears that there has been little advancement
in our understanding of eye dominance since
Miles (1930) concluded that “the significance of optical
dominance is not yet fully evident, although it appears
generally demonstrable as a habit”
http://app.psychonomic-journals.org/content/65/2/310.full.pdf[/QUOTE

Knowing where to find the information is knowledge in itself.

Thanks Geno...........
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I pithched until I was 45...........

(
The "best" or most accurate way to throw a baseball is by using both eyes. -- Try it for yourself.)

I dont ever think i seen a pitcher close one eye and pitch and being a pitchure myself at one time i pretty sure i didnt close one eye either,,,
maybe once or twice after i hit the batter,,,,

Hi there,

I threw a good knuckle ball the last 5 years I pitched.

In throwing a baseball or other object in this manner there is alot of feel to go along with it. Many other factors involved also. But you can be relatively successful without being perfectly accurate. Repetition is a huge tool with alot of eye hand coordination. Alot of movement involved with alot of other factors also.
But the same is true in pool except we don't have as many things to coordinate and move. We can be still and aim as we would a rifle.
You can shoot a pool shot with your body moving all over the place like a pitcher but the results would not be very good. But sometime during that pitchers delivery his eyes give him the best info he can get to hit the target. That is the best he can hope for and some get really good at it and become major leaguers.

A pitcher can make the best pitch of his life and it can get hit out of the ball park.

A pool player makes a great shot and the opponent just has to sit there and take his medicine.

There is a spot where this pitcher does see the target really clear in regards to his aim at the glove however brief.

But in pool knowing where this spot is on all shots is so important because while we are aiming we can almost cinch our aim. we are still like we are shooting a gun. And there is only one spot to have your eyes on each peticular shot. Knowing where this is can be huge. Not knowing can be not so good no matter what your level of play is.

The middle I am talking about is so important because everyone can find this spot and learn how to get there on every shot. It is there and we just need the knowledge on how to find it. Once a person knows how it takes care of one of the biggest hurdles there is in this game and that is how to aim.

Most of the shots we miss didn't really look right when we first got down. You can get up and then get back down again. Now it looks better.

What happened is the second time you got the eyes in the more perfect spot.

Pitching,rifle or pool the perfect spot is there. Pool is more like the rifle though is regards to being able to stay stiil and aim. And in pool and rifles the best defense is a great offense.

have a great day geno...............
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great answer thanks............

Here is a link to a method that you can use to find where your eyes should be relative to the cue stick. The method allows the pool player to determine the best position for the eyes relative to the cue stick. Several people here and other places have found the method useful. It would be interesting to hear what others find.

http://www.sunburstselect.com/PBReview/HowToUseYourEyes.htm

When I did it, I had to change my eye placement slightly to get the best results. My accuracy did in fact improve when I discovered the best placement for my eyes relative to the shaft. Before using this method I was primarily a one eyed shooter, similar to Neils Feijn. After studying my ability to be accurate using the method discussed, I found that I play best when the the cue stick is along the right edge of my nose. I am right eye dominent.

Your milage will vary !

Most of us are right handed or left handed and if you are like me you know that the right hand has much better abilities than the left hand when it comes to many things in life. I think this "preference" for one hand over the other and for one eye over the other is an important personal characteristic that we train over a life time. This preference and training helps (or hurts) many of the things that we do. It only makes sense, to me, that I emphasize the "better" hand or eye to accomplish the tasks I am working on.

As indicated above, for the most part we play pool in three dimensions. If you insist that we play in two dimensions we usually play along several different lines (angles) of travel in those two dimensions. It makes sense that such a physiological problem is best solved with our "usual" tools -- both eyes with slight emphasis on the right eye (in my case).

On length of table shots accuracy of hit is the predominent problem and we simply make a rough adjustment (if any) for positional effects. This situation is similar to shooting a weapon and perhaps one eyed shooting is more effective, as it is for the pistol shooter.

I think that you need to be able to play either way and to use the best tools for the job, usually both eyes sometimes one eye.

Notice too that research has shown (see links above) that eye dominance may shift (or be modified) over different distances for some people. This little known fact may have an effect on the way that some people play. The only way to know is to study your own ability to be accurate over different distances with diffeent eye placements.

This game can get complicated !

In the context of the original post, "Where is the middle?" I think the answer is -- It depends on several thngs.

Hi there Joe,

Hi there Joe. After the week end I will share what I call the middle with everyone. This explains why we have so many different levels of aiming abilities. Why some players can practice and practice and never aim any better. We've all heard the term practice makes perfect. Just like with a gun if you have the eye on the sight you will be more successful.

Sometimes with alot of practice you can naturally get the eyes to the more perfect position. This is why pros sometimes practice up to 8 hours a day. Most of them don't even know how to get to this perfect spot. They just know that if they practice alot they will shoot better. And nomatter what with all this practice they will.

But it is so much easier just knowing where this is. And how to find it for each and every shot.

The middle that I talk about hold the key..................

Thanks again Geno..................
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's the real deal.........................

Geno,

This better be good after making us wait this long. :wink:

Regards,
Dave

Hi there Dave,

This is what it is. Everyone will understand this middle when the answer comes out.

I'll give you a hint though. There are some players that don't have a middle as far as their aiming with a pool shot. They only shoot with one eye. These players can shoot with a patch on one eye.

have a great day geno.

I really don't think this has ever been identified before.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Memory is good.........

Just play by memory!:smile:

Hi there Hank,

I probably almost got to meet you. I went to Palm Harbor to play in a tournament about a week after Galvaston. I was there one day when I relized that the pool rooms there still had smoking.

Not wanting to get sick which I do from the smoke, I headed straight up to Virginia to get ready for the US Open only to find out that it was all smoking there also.

I headed up to Baltimore so I could play without the smoke. Then to Salisbury,Maryland and then to the US Open.

That darn smoke chased me all over the place. Hopefully next year these states will be all nonsmoking.

Maybe I'll see ya then....Have a great day Geno..............:cool:
 

tigerseye

Kenny Wilson
Silver Member
Hi there,

The next time you aim a shot that is straight try this. Aim the way you normally would. Now open and close one eye at a time. Niether eye will be directly over the cue. But one will be closer to being there than the other one.

Just a little test you can do. Might tell you someything .

Have a great day geno................:smile:

Very interesting...
 

2_Fast_4_Fleas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
wow....sure sounds like a lot of things for a guy to think about while he is shooting a shot, this eye, that eye, close one eye, patch the other, which is closer, whats my vision?, am i cross eyed? and all along i thought i was supposed to be thinking about my position, and shot. gee no wonder earl has so much problems with that eye dominance thing and cues and other strange thingamobobers. Anyways.....has anyone ever watched snooker on a 6x12? ever see them guys fire those balls in straight as a freggin arrow? talking about accuracy? ever see them shoot any way but under thier chin, eyes level to the table, eyes squared to the cue? and they shoot accurate and they are amazing... :D
 

ribdoner

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
Silver Member
Interesting

It's scary to think of how strong "one eyed TONY" or "PATCHEYE" would have been.

IIRC JERRY wasn't as "blind" in his bad eye as it appeared
 

Big C

Deep in the heart of TX.
Silver Member
Anyways.....has anyone ever watched snooker on a 6x12? ever see them guys fire those balls in straight as a freggin arrow? talking about accuracy? ever see them shoot any way but under thier chin, eyes level to the table, eyes squared to the cue? and they shoot accurate and they are amazing... :D
Good observation. It all starts with the stance. Yes, their head position over the cue is no accident. They are very effective potters.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's not that difficult..........

wow....sure sounds like a lot of things for a guy to think about while he is shooting a shot, this eye, that eye, close one eye, patch the other, which is closer, whats my vision?, am i cross eyed? and all along i thought i was supposed to be thinking about my position, and shot. gee no wonder earl has so much problems with that eye dominance thing and cues and other strange thingamobobers. Anyways.....has anyone ever watched snooker on a 6x12? ever see them guys fire those balls in straight as a freggin arrow? talking about accuracy? ever see them shoot any way but under thier chin, eyes level to the table, eyes squared to the cue? and they shoot accurate and they are amazing... :D

Hi there,

It's not all that complicated but thanks for the reply:grin: Those women players that come from snooker country do really tear it up.

It's really amazing though when I work with someone that just can't believe how much better they see the shots once they get the eyes in the right position.

Have a great day geno...........:smile::smile:
 

pdcue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
wow....sure sounds like a lot of things for a guy to think about while he is shooting a shot, this eye, that eye, close one eye, patch the other, which is closer, whats my vision?, am i cross eyed? and all along i thought i was supposed to be thinking about my position, and shot. gee no wonder earl has so much problems with that eye dominance thing and cues and other strange thingamobobers. Anyways.....has anyone ever watched snooker on a 6x12? ever see them guys fire those balls in straight as a freggin arrow? talking about accuracy? ever see them shoot any way but under thier chin, eyes level to the table, eyes squared to the cue? and they shoot accurate and they are amazing... :D

Not exactly - Hendry is the only top player I know of who is 'even sighted'
as the Brits call it - as in he has no dominant eye.

IMHO if you look into it you will find that many of the Snooker pros
shoot with the shaft under one eye or the other.

Dale
 
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dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hi there Dave,

This is what it is. Everyone will understand this middle when the answer comes out.

I'll give you a hint though. There are some players that don't have a middle as far as their aiming with a pool shot. They only shoot with one eye. These players can shoot with a patch on one eye.

have a great day geno.

I really don't think this has ever been identified before.
I'll be curious to see how your "middle" is different from my "vision center:"

vision center: the head alignment that allows you to see a center-ball straight-in shot as straight, with the tip appearing to be at the center of the CB. For some people, this might be with the cue under their dominant eye (if they have one). For others, it might be with the cue under their nose, or somewhere else between their eyes (or even outside of the eyes?).​

Regards,
Dave
 

2_Fast_4_Fleas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I not sure but i think you can watch (147 break by Jimmy White vs. Tony Drago) or ronnie sullivan...white runs 147 in 10 min and sullivan runs 147 in 7 min. In my opinion these guys are the 2 best and both play with cue under middle of chin :D check them out on youtube
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some players it is difficult to tell..............

I not sure but i think you can watch (147 break by Jimmy White vs. Tony Drago) or ronnie sullivan...white runs 147 in 10 min and sullivan runs 147 in 7 min. In my opinion these guys are the 2 best and both play with cue under middle of chin :D check them out on youtube

Hi there,

If you were to watch me shoot I appear to have the cue in the middle also. You could not tell which eye is doing the most work because the difference one way or another is so small. When you are seeing through your own eyes though the difference is huge.

If a player is real strong eye dominent then it is easy to tell but most of us are not like this. Or if you were one of these pheonoms that shoot with only one eye.

All the rest of us aim from this middle and the players that aim the best are the ones that do this naturally the best and get the eyes in the most correct position.

If I am playing a player I always figure out which eye is the stronger one. When I play safe or push out I try to make them shoot the shot the way that is more difficult to shoot. This will give me anywhere from a 10% to 20% advantage that they will not execute the shot the way they want to. This alone has won quite a few matches for me.

If this was so easy to see and understand alot of players would already know this.

Try this once just to prove a point. Look at an object. Put your hand over your right eye. Now move it out about six inches in front of your eye but make sure if you are only looking through this eye you cannot see the object.

Now keep your hand there and look at the object with both eyes open. You know that the object is blocked from your vision with your right eye but with both eyes open it appears you can still see through both eyes but you see kind of a ghost hand. Many people would argue that they are seeing the object with the right eye even though it is obviously blocked. You can prove it to them by just having them close the left eye and look.

This is what I do when I teach Perfect Aim. I don't just tell them but I show them so they understand it themselves. Otherwise there can be alot of confusion.

This is why it is so hard for a player to know which eye is doing what and have the eyes in this best position.

This is why some players aim great and others really struggle with aiming. The eye that is doing the aiming is just a little off. But in some cases the eye is way off. This is why there are 3 and 4 ratings in many leagues. There shouldn't be any 3 or 4's if they actually understood how to get the eyes in the right position.

In the APA league in Phoenix I worked with about about 10 players one week. Doug ran the league. I talked to him about a week later and he told me he had a complaint. I was screwing up his league. He was joking of course. He told me they needed the 3's and 4's in the league to keep their averages down for the team. Then he asked me when he could get a lesson.

Hi Doug if you read this. Doud and his wife are good people. They are right there every night helping with anything that needs to be done with their leagues. It's not a mistake that their leagues with the APA are doing so good. They enjoy doing what they are doing with everyone and it shows. Keep up the good work................

Can you imagine if you compared this aiming in pool with driving a car.

Driving a car is aiming also. It is just much easier to see naturally. Everyone aims a car real well. If they aimed the car like they aim a pool shot the road would not be a safe place to be.

Also with some players this middle is very small. These players can aim much better naturally than players with a small middle because there is less room for error when they are just naturally looking.

In the Perfect Aim video I just try to keep it simple and try to help players know where they need to get for themselves on all shots. There is still some guessing but at least they can get close to where they need to get.

Have you ever gotten down on a pool shot and the shot doesn't look right. Now you get back up and get back down and now it looks better. The first time the eyes were in the wrong spot. It might not be too far off but it doesn"t have to be to not look right. The second time it looks better in fact it looks great. If you would have shot the first time you might have missed because the eyes were not in the most correct position.

This middle I talk about is this area where the shot still looks OK to shoot but it is not the best if your eyes are in the wrong place and it is very easy to not have them in the best position.

Players have more trouble shooting to the right or the left. If you set up a 1/4 hit and shoot it 25 times to the left and 25 times to the right you will find one way will be much more difficult to shoot.

You will find that if you are right eye dominent your trouble will be cutting to the left. If the left is dominent trouble will be cutting to the right.

I'm not just blowing smoke here. I am teaching players this everyday with great success. This is why some players defend Perfect Aim so adamently. It is the way it is. Seeing is believing.....:grin-square:

Players need to know this to see the shots the best that they can. This is why so many players can't seem to get any better. They just keep making the same judgement errors with the eyes that they always make when all they need to do is just learn where that natural sight is and learn how to find it on every shot.

It's pretty exciting for the players that have learned.

I hope this clears it up for you.

Thanks for the comments Geno............:cool:
 
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