Dominent Eye Quiz for All You AZ'ers

[genomachino]

Your so right............

Well said CoCo. Let me just add one thing. If you want to get better, you need to step up and compete against better players. I'm not the first to say it, but I firmly believe it. Don't be afraid to take an ass-whipping. If it happens, learn from it and you will get stronger.

I drive up 2 hours everyday to compete with someone or play in a small tournament and play in a smoke free environment.

You need to play where it makes a difference if you make the ball wether it be gambling or tournament.

Good point Big C. Have a great day. Geno............

 

[ShootingArts]

Taught him everything he knows (grin!)

Hu - you didn't give lessons to Mark Selby did you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sicXWlZLuXg&feature=PlayList&p=4D38561AB4C03BB4&index=1 (actually, you can probably find clips of him moving his head more than this - he has become relatively static recently :grin: )

Interesting head movement, definitely works for him.

I don't recommend making a habit of moving around while you are down on a ball but sometimes you can learn a good bit, or I can. I fiddle around until I am where I need to be, come up, and reset back to my last position. Works pretty well.

Dr. Dave, I enjoyed the chicken video's. Having owned a chicken or two over the years I had noticed the head locked deal before. I've done everything but turn them upside down and their head not move as long as there is still some travel in the neck. I think I could take the chicken on the table with just a minor shark move. I'll load a hot grease sizzling ap on my I-Phone!!

Hu

 

[woody_968]

The one thing Geno forget to point out in all his post about "perfect aiming", "dominant eyes" is ad people age they loose perfect vision, depth perception, and may have physical problem that interfere with being able to achieve perfect TEXT BOOK STANCE, etc.

Hell Willie Hoppie, & Keith McCready both shoot sid saddle, as apparently they started playing pool at a young age, and shot off of wooden boxes because of height problems. They need the help of the box to be able to be taller. Both over came, and because they did they were great PLAYER.

IMHO "BOX SYSTEMS DON'T NOT WORKFOR EVERYONE", as each of us have different abilities, vision problems, and physical problems to deal with when playing pool.

IMHO Mastering Basis is the KEY TO SUCCESSFUL Pool Playing, Gold or any Sport as without Mastering Basic you are SOL.

Im a little confused by your post, some because I agree with what you are saying and some because I dont think I have ever heard Gene say everyone had to stand the same way or look from the same position.

I do not believe in cookie cutter teaching, and I dont think Gene does either. I do think there are certain fundamental qualities that must be met, but not everyone will look the same getting there. Gene is not saying everyone will be in the same position, in fact he stresses that not everyone will be sighting from the same place. What he is trying to teach is how to find the right eye position for each player.

Yes your vision and body does change, but with proper knowledge you will figure out the best adjustment to make when they do.

Think the one thing many people are looking for is a Magic System, Magic Cue, Magic Chalk, Magic Tip, and with those items they think they will be GREAT POOL PLAYERS...Sorry to say there is NO MAGIC.

Willie Hoppy, Willie Mosconi, and other GREAT PLAYERS are what they are because of Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice.

Today there is a BOAT LOAD of GREAT POOL INSTRUCTION FREE ON THE NET, Books, DVD's, many FREE TO USE at the local library, and for sale in many places.

You don't become a GREAT ANYTHING by BUYING A DVD, or BOOK, and carrying it with you 7 x 24 x 365, you got to Practice, and Know the BASICS. IMHO.

If you are looking for Magic there is no Magic, and this GUY PROVES it Weekly on TV.

Once again we are on the same page, to some extent. There is NO magic pill, and players must practice what they learn to get better.

Some players will get VERY good by just playing and practicing. They are the naturals so to speak. They start with a good stroke, naturally get their eyes in the proper position, pick up on patterns and game play quickly, it can happen so fast its sick LOL. But to think that the greats you mention got there ONLY because of practice and not because of what they knew is silly.

You can have all the knowledge in the world, but if its not put into practice you will only get so good. At the same time, you can practice all you want, but until you increase your knowledge you will only get so far.

For some reason it still seams like you think Gene is trying to present a "system" that automatically makes everything and turns players into champions over night. I would think through all the different threads you would no that is not the case. Its not a system, but it is learning how to CORRECTLY see the shots with each players vision.

I dont care how good someones fundamentals are (and yes they ARE important) if they are not getting lined up correctly they will always have to make adjustments in their stroke. Some days will be better than others, either because their adjustments happen to be on that day or because they are falling into a better position. But their game will go up and down from day to day more than it should.

If you took two people with the same level of fundamentals, and taught one of them a better way to sight or aim, do you not think he would become the favorite when they matched up?

Id say more, but Im sick of typing and Im sure anyone else who made it this far is sick of reading

 

[lfigueroa]

:smile:
Hi there everyone,

I've dicided to share a little Dominent Eye knowledge with all you AZ'ers. This is something that I have learned during my lessons. It is a very esential part in learning how to aim.

When talking about the dominent eye does anyone understand what the middle is. Being able to find this middle and being able to understand it is one of the most valuable tools a player can have to increasing his or her aiming accuracy at an level of ability.

The question here is, WHAT IS THE MIDDLE?

AND IF ANYONE DOES UNDERSTAND THIS WOULD YOU GIVE YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE MIDDLE. THANKS

I will share this INFO after this has went for awhile. Should be interesting..................

Who knows? Maybe nobody understands it ?

Have a great day..........Geno...........

You know, IMO, it's not a matter of a dominant eye. It's just a matter of doing things the same way in a consistent manner. If you haven't been doing that, and then start to, you're going to improve. That's what is being sold here: consistency. Any kind of consistency.

If you don't believe me, just look at the photos/videos of successful pool players: as a group, they're all over the place when it comes to cue/eye relationships. But what they all do have in common is that, individually, they do it the same way, every time. The snooker players are particularly noteworthy for this -- they're like some Disneyland animatronics on every shot.

Looking at the balls the same on every shot and giving your peepers (and wetware) a frame of reference is just part of the equation. Do it the same, no matter how you decide upon that, and you're going to play better, whether you paid someone $80 for that bit of advice, or caught it for free here, or from someone else, or figured it out all by your lonesome. But never forget that you still have to work out the foot work; the grip and bridge hands; the movements that get you into shooting position and generate peculiar but critical things like wrist position; and the motion of the stroke itself (pause or not at your own peril Oh, and then don't forget you're going to have to learn all the stuff about squirt, and swerve, and speed, and spin, and throw, and elevation, and stuff like that there for *a lot* of different shots/position combinations.

My hat is off to Geno for a successful marketing campaign -- you really did a first rate job.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sfleinen]

Hu - you didn't give lessons to Mark Selby did you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sicXWlZLuXg&feature=PlayList&p=4D38561AB4C03BB4&index=1 (actually, you can probably find clips of him moving his head more than this - he has become relatively static recently :grin: )

A bit off-topic, but wow, that was a very nice off-angle long-distance blue that Mark S. potted with authority! Yes, Mark S. has a very unique bobbing "to and fro" motion. Methinks that might be because of the momentum of his practice strokes rocking his upper body (or something like that).

-Sean

 

[timseal]

Mark Selby does keep his head still when it matters though. From pause to follow-through he is as still as anybody else.

-tim

(hope that makes it past the AZB forum policeman)

 

[pdcue]

You know, IMO, it's not a matter of a dominant eye. It's just a matter of doing things the same way in a consistent manner. If you haven't been doing that, and then start to, you're going to improve. That's what is being sold here: consistency. Any kind of consistency.

If you don't believe me, just look at the photos/videos of successful pool players: as a group, they're all over the place when it comes to cue/eye relationships. But what they all do have in common is that, individually, they do it the same way, every time. The snooker players are particularly noteworthy for this -- they're like some Disneyland animatronics on every shot.

Looking at the balls the same on every shot and giving your peepers (and wetware) a frame of reference is just part of the equation. Do it the same, no matter how you decide upon that, and you're going to play better, whether you paid someone $80 for that bit of advice, or caught it for free here, or from someone else, or figured it out all by your lonesome. But never forget that you still have to work out the foot work; the grip and bridge hands; the movements that get you into shooting position and generate peculiar but critical things like wrist position; and the motion of the stroke itself (pause or not at your own peril Oh, and then don't forget you're going to have to learn all the stuff about squirt, and swerve, and speed, and spin, and throw, and elevation, and stuff like that there for *a lot* of different shots/position combinations.

My hat is off to Geno for a successful marketing campaign -- you really did a first rate job.

Lou Figueroa

Lou steals my thunder again.

I couldn't agree more that a consistent stance, resulting in a consistent
view - could very well be the most important element in developing
excellent potting skills.

The Brit Snooker stars - like many American 'action' players, typically get so low
that the cue rubs their chin. This gives an unchanging
'point of reference' that can be easily returned to for every shot.

Tho the cue in the middle of the chin<Hendry> might not be the 'best'
alignment, even for him - it provides the same alignment every time.

The ball doesn't know what you're looking at,
the ball doesn't know what you're thinking.

It only knows to go in, if you hit it in the right spot.

On a related note, for those who feel that
shaft under the dominant eye isn't the best
way to line up on a shot - could you please explain
why a rifle has a rear sight?


Dale

 

[softshot]

I couldn't agree more that a consistent stance, resulting in a consistent
view - could very well be the most important element in developing
excellent potting skills.

consistent stance..


your stance can only be as consistent as your CB position..


some times it's your fault... sometimes it's an intentional safe by the other guy..

but just a guess 30-40% of most players shots.. you are either stretched out or jacked up..

the stance now becomes.. whatever gets you in line

so WHAT exactly is in line...

and what finds that line...

the EYES...

I was taught to find the spot where I see that line....

my stance recipe is

find the line ...

put my eyes on the line..

put my cue as level as possible on that line..

and then wrap my body around it.. in a way that allows me to finish my stroke..

what more can you do??

 

[enlightphoto]

I'm curious about the dominant eye. As a pro photographer, I know I always lift may camera to look through a view finder with my left eye - which really sucks cuz it causes me to accidentally hit control buttons I don't want to hit. Every single time I try to use my right eye through the view finder it feels "off". Similarly, if I feel I am playing 'off' and missing shots, I find that making a very slight pivot left seems to bring back my aim.

Am curious if you'd consider trying an experiment. If you had an old camera (with a viewfinder - not an LCD Screen) before you even see someone at a table, ask them to use the camera like they were going to take a picture. See which eye they use to look through the viewfinder. Then see if that matches up at all with what you determine to be their dominant eye after watching them at the table. I'd be very curious to see if there is any direct correlation based on your experience.

Whaddya think? Worth trying on a few unsuspecting students?


FWIW, I was planning on treating myself to Perfect Aim as an Xmas Present, but regret that an impending major truck repair decided to reorganize my spending plans. Hopefully by the time the new video comes out, or you come to sunny & warm California, I'll have a new bank of pennies saved up.

Cheers & Happy Holidays!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Dale:
for those who feel that
shaft under the dominant eye isn't the best
way to line up on a shot - could you please explain
why a rifle has a rear sight?

That's the wrong question. The right question is: "why is sighting over a cue stick different from sighting along a rifle barrel?"

pj
chgo

 

[pdcue]

consistent stance..


your stance can only be as consistent as your CB position..


some times it's your fault... sometimes it's an intentional safe by the other guy..

but just a guess 30-40% of most players shots.. you are either stretched out or jacked up..

the stance now becomes.. whatever gets you in line

so WHAT exactly is in line...

and what finds that line...

the EYES...

I was taught to find the spot where I see that line....

my stance recipe is

find the line ...

put my eyes on the line..

put my cue as level as possible on that line..

and then wrap my body around it.. in a way that allows me to finish my stroke..

what more can you do??

Well, the discussion is about where your dominant eye is in relation
to the shaft of the cue - unless you are using the bridge, you should be able to maintain the same relative eye/shaft alignment on all shots, even
tho some of them may be less comfortable than others.

Not for nothing, as they say, but if you are jacked-up or stretched out
on 40% of your shots - the location of your dominant eye is prolly the
least of your problems - IMHO

Dale

 

[JoeW]

The middle is half way to the contact point

I do not know if this is what Gene was talking about but here is what I found as shown below.

A dress maker’s pencil was used to draw the line to the object ball. A second line was drawn from the object ball to the pocket. The cue stick was lined up and placed on a piece of chalk. Captions precede the photo to make it easier to see what I found.


This Photo shows what I see with both eyes over the stick. I am right eye dominant so the stick is a little to the left. The red dots on the cue ball are vertical and lined up with the shot line. It is interesting to note that my eyes appear to be at an off angle. Of course with a camera there is no binocular vision so the picture is a little off. The site line looks straight to me.

This is what I see with my left eye when I close my right eye.

This is what I see with my right eye when I close my left eye.

After playing with these different images as seen by my eyes (not the camera) it is somewhat disconcerting because I now know that I am not looking down the line. Both eyes are “off” the center line. I went back to one eyed (rifle shooting style) and found that while I used this for a few years I no longer like the feel of it. When playing around with the confusing eye problems my brain seems to reconcile the disparate images.

I found something new (to me). If I check my aim line half way to the object ball my aiming ability increased to where I was not missing any balls. In the next photo a dress maker’s pencil is used as an arrow to show where I check the aim line during the stroke.

I don’t know why checking the midpoint of the aim line improves my ability to aim, I just know it works for me. I suspect that the parallax problem that comes with binocular vision is offset by taking two estimates of the line to the cue ball. And this results in an aim line in which one can be more confident. Now I wonder how many good players use something like this when aiming.

Another definition of the “middle” is halfway to the contact point. Try it, you too may find that it helps you get on that line.

OK all the flamers can tell me what an idiot I am. But note that at least I try new things before I start telling eveyone that it can't possibly work.

 

[randyg]

Nice job JoeW....SPF=randyg

 

[JoeW]

I doubt I could have found this so quickly had I not learned SPF from you (Randy). :grin-square:

 

[Siz]

check the aim line?

I found something new (to me). If I check my aim line half way to the object ball my aiming ability increased to where I was not missing any balls. In the next photo a dress maker’s pencil is used as an arrow to show where I check the aim line during the stroke.

Joe - what do you mean when you say you 'check your aim line' half way to the o.b.? What do you check, and what do you check it against?

Siz

 

[Wolven]

I am right eye dominant so the stick is a little to the left. QUOTE]


Interesting post. Can you explain?

 

[Big C]

That's an excellent illustration Joe. The midpoint aiming method is very powerful. In the golfing world, it is known as an intermediate target. You have a main target that is several hundred yards away. You can focus on something like a leaf, or dark patch of grass just a few feet away that is on the same line and it really helps you to square the clubface and your body to your distant target.
As for eye-dominance, that is just a fact of life and you have to learn to position your hear over the cue so that both eyes are delivering equal amounts of information to the brain. I don't know if this has been discussed, but I have found that my eyes must be square to the shot. If there is any left-to-right, or side-to-side skew, then the picture doesn't look right.

 

[JoeW]

When I am slowly bending to the shot my eyes are on the contact point. I place the cue stick behind the cue ball on a line to the target and stroke twice to be sure everything is on line. What I recently found is that if I pick a point about halfway to the OB on my aim line I can see if the original aim line is “straight” from the feel of the rear of the cue stick to the intermediate point to the contact point. I may need to readjust to get all three points lined up. Seems that my eyes are able to find a straight line to the mid point and then I can see that my original aim line is on this line with three points. It is difficult to describe.

The intermediate point is a place in space and I think it helps correct the natural parallax problem

The concept is indeed similar to the way I play golf as noted by Big C. When hitting a driver or an iron I pick a spot in the fairway and then draw a line to a place about ten feet in front of me. I try to swing the club through the place ten feet in front of me to the distant target. This improved my swing because it gave me something specific and nearby that I could use as a three point aim line. I never thought to transfer this type of aiming to pool until today. In fact, when I did it I did not realize that I was transferring what I do with a golf swing to playing pool.

 

[JoeW]

I am right eye dominant so the stick is a little to the left. QUOTE]


Interesting post. Can you explain?

Sorry that should have been the cue is a little to the right of the center of my face or just to the right of the center of my nose. This positioning results in my seeing the dots on the left of center of the aim line as shown in the first photo.

 

[ShootingArts]

interesting

When I am slowly bending to the shot my eyes are on the contact point. I place the cue stick behind the cue ball on a line to the target and stroke twice to be sure everything is on line. What I recently found is that if I pick a point about halfway to the OB on my aim line I can see if the original aim line is “straight” from the feel of the rear of the cue stick to the intermediate point to the contact point. I may need to readjust to get all three points lined up. Seems that my eye is able to find a straight line to the mid point and then I can see that my original aim line is on this line with three points. It is difficult to describe.

The concept is indeed similar to the way I play golf as noted by Big C. When hitting a driver or an iron I pick a spot in the fairway and then draw a line to a place about ten feet in front of me. I try to swing the club through the place ten feet in front of me to the distant target. This improved my swing because it gave me something specific and nearby that I could use as a three point aim line. I never thought to transfer this type of aiming to pool until today. In fact, when I did it I did not realize that I was transferring what I do with a golf swing to playing pool.

Joe,

This is interesting. Depending on the length of the shot I sometimes find myself looking at a point along the cue ball's path or even a point on the extended path on the other side of the contact ball.(Not an actual path as obviously the cue ball will change direction when striking the object ball)

No clue why I started doing this, works for me though.

Hu