King the wonder dog -- long

[lfigueroa]

I'm Italian, but as my Jewish friends would say, "That's called peeing on the mitzvah."

the Beard

Now you'll want to look up "mitzah" on Wikopedia, Lou.

At-Yay-Yay. Look you alter cocker, I don’t have to look up "mitzvah." And I’m sorry to rain on your bobbemyseh -- it was bupkes! Dreck! Sorry I had the chutzpah to point this out. I just think you’re getting a little ferblunjit in your old age. Sorry I got you all fermiisht. Gay ga zinta hate. Sorry I didn’t go for the schmaltz.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

There's a knocker in ever crowd. King was no fake!

wow, lol. More Jay logic and reasoning: "If I say it's so, it must be so."

Stop it, you're killin' me.

I didn't knock anything. I provided a link, without comment. Intelligent people will come to their own conclusions. Reality can be a bee-atch and all that. Of course, out in Never Never Land, you can just clap your hands together and say, "I do believe, I do believe."

Lou Figueroa

 

[ShootingArts]

Clever Hans

I thought of the Clever Hans effect Lou has pointed out myself as soon as I read about King. That still would make him a pretty clever animal helping work the hustle and all the other things he did. Learning to respond to tiny cues is pretty amazing in itself.

I worked a cutting horse every single day for a year. At the end of that year I couldn't tell if he was taking signals from me or just doing what needed doing. We were as in tune as the finest dancing partners or olympic skating team. Many people think horses are telepathic because they will pick up on the tiny changes we make getting ready to signal something to them and react before we realize that we have signaled them.

It doesn't really matter how King performed his feats, he remains a very special dog. I suspect that animals are like humans and have a wide range of IQ. I have had almost scary smart animals and I have had some that there was no getting around it, they were dumber than a box of rocks. Like some humans I have hired, I had to retrain them every morning the sun came up.

Hu

 

[jay helfert]

wow, lol. More Jay logic and reasoning: "If I say it's so, it must be so."

Stop it, you're killin' me.

I didn't knock anything. I provided a link, without comment. Intelligent people will come to their own conclusions. Reality can be a bee-atch and all that. Of course, out in Never Never Land, you can just clap your hands together and say, "I do believe, I do believe."

Lou Figueroa

I saw him do it with my own eyes Luigi! That's not logic, that is reality. Big difference that's lost on you. In my poolroom, you're a KNOCKER! I know how you roll Lou. You tell on yourself every day.

 

[freddy the beard]

The amazing Grinch

I saw him do it with my own eyes Luigi! That's not logic, that is reality. Big difference that's lost on you. In my poolroom, you're a KNOCKER! I know how you roll Lou. You tell on yourself every day.

Jay, it's amazing how everybody else enjoyed the little holiday treat about our favorite pool dog, King, except Lou the Grinch. He just cant help himself. I think he just lays back waiting for me or you to post something controversial so he can do his Grinch pounce. He's over his head in this spot. There are way too many people from LA and Fla still alive, who have come under King's spell. Just as a final xmas treat I will repost the pic of King and Ronnie Allen.

King would have Clever Hans going out and getting him coffee.

Beard

(To be fair Lou, aside from your dark, negative dronings, your Yiddisher replies were exceptionally creative.)

 

[alstl]

wow, lol. More Jay logic and reasoning: "If I say it's so, it must be so."

Stop it, you're killin' me.

I didn't knock anything. I provided a link, without comment. Intelligent people will come to their own conclusions. Reality can be a bee-atch and all that. Of course, out in Never Never Land, you can just clap your hands together and say, "I do believe, I do believe."

Lou Figueroa

I had an uncle who was a farmer and he had a couple dogs who would do whatever he told them to do. I don't think they could count but they knew what he was saying, they understood English. For example he would say "Go get the cows" and the dogs would go out into the pasture and bring the cows to the barn.

I believe the story. Several people have said they saw it happen and they have no reason to lie.

 

[Ken_4fun]

As an Indiana farmboy, I have been around animals all my life. I have hunted and owned many dogs, cats, etc.

My favorite dogs are beagles and rabbit hunting, but mostly what I have seen it is the instinct and breed of dogs (beagles and rabbits).

Getting specific pool balls out of pockets on demand....damn.

LOL

Ken

 

[pt109]

Woof

It does not matter how he did it; sounds like King was one smart dog, smarter than a lot of people!
Thanks for the story.

I agree.
Anybody who doesn't like that story reminds me of the crowd who paid
to see a talking dog.
They wanted their money back when they discovered a horse behind a
curtain who was a ventriloquist

ps
I m excellent at understanding dogs when shooting thin back-cuts
under heat.

 

[lfigueroa]

I thought of the Clever Hans effect Lou has pointed out myself as soon as I read about King. That still would make him a pretty clever animal helping work the hustle and all the other things he did. Learning to respond to tiny cues is pretty amazing in itself.

I worked a cutting horse every single day for a year. At the end of that year I couldn't tell if he was taking signals from me or just doing what needed doing. We were as in tune as the finest dancing partners or olympic skating team. Many people think horses are telepathic because they will pick up on the tiny changes we make getting ready to signal something to them and react before we realize that we have signaled them.

It doesn't really matter how King performed his feats, he remains a very special dog. I suspect that animals are like humans and have a wide range of IQ. I have had almost scary smart animals and I have had some that there was no getting around it, they were dumber than a box of rocks. Like some humans I have hired, I had to retrain them every morning the sun came up.

Hu

I agree. My own opinion about King is that there were probably multiple things going on, from actually recognizing some of the verbal cues, to some non-verbal ones, to tricks that were done by rote.

Was he actually doing math? Probably not.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I saw him do it with my own eyes Luigi! That's not logic, that is reality. Big difference that's lost on you. In my poolroom, you're a KNOCKER! I know how you roll Lou. You tell on yourself every day.

No doubt you saw him do it. But that is not incompatible with the Clever Hans Effect -- and that's where *you* are getting lost ;-)

And since you want to shout names, instead of discuss things like an adult, here's what we would call you in my pool room: a sucker. Yes, you saw him do it -- and you were just dumb enough to believe he was doing it all on his own. The carnies must *love* to see you coming down the midway.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Jay, it's amazing how everybody else enjoyed the little holiday treat about our favorite pool dog, King, except Lou the Grinch. He just cant help himself. I think he just lays back waiting for me or you to post something controversial so he can do his Grinch pounce. He's over his head in this spot. There are way too many people from LA and Fla still alive, who have come under King's spell. Just as a final xmas treat I will repost the pic of King and Ronnie Allen.

King would have Clever Hans going out and getting him coffee.

Beard

(To be fair Lou, aside from your dark, negative dronings, your Yiddisher replies were exceptionally creative.)

You are being more egocentric than usual, Freddy.

First off, I enjoyed the story. But, I prefer a small dose of reality with my fairy tales.

Also, I don't wait around to pounce on anything you write -- I think this thread was up for several days, with you clearly identified as the OP and I didn't open it. I just happen to be bored, waiting for the UPS guy, and opened a couple of threads I hadn't looked at. This was one of them. Sorry to burst your bubble on that.

To reiterate: I'm sure King did everything you wrote. Honest. Now how he did all that was probably: part smarts; part tricks he'd been taught; and part Clever Hans. I don't know why an observation such as that would be such a big deal to any living adult, except Jay, who has really rolled off the deep end on this (but *that's* how Jay rolls ;-)

And thanks for the compliment on my Yiddish, my banking bubbala

Lou Figueroa

 

[Rich93]

King looks like a border collie. Border collies are so smart, when they fetch the newspaper they speed-read it before delivering it.

 

[lfigueroa]

I had an uncle who was a farmer and he had a couple dogs who would do whatever he told them to do. I don't think they could count but they knew what he was saying, they understood English. For example he would say "Go get the cows" and the dogs would go out into the pasture and bring the cows to the barn.

I believe the story. Several people have said they saw it happen and they have no reason to lie.

Oh yeah, no doubt.

Actually, if Jay had taken a moment to read the Wiki entry (before going into kindergarten mode) he would have seen the reference to Rico, the border collie. As you say, they're not counting, but do recognize words. And as I've said a couple of times now: no one is lying, they saw what they saw. But how and why they saw what was happening is a different story. Maybe someone can explain that to Jay, cause he's got special mental and logic and reasoning powers. Or so he claims ;-)

Lou Figueroa
has some doubts
though

 

[lfigueroa]

King looks like a border collie. Border collies are so smart, when they fetch the newspaper they speed-read it before delivering it.

lol. I hear pigs make great border collie subs.

Lou Figueroa
"That'll do, Pig."

 

[alstl]

Oh yeah, no doubt.

Actually, if Jay had taken a moment to read the Wiki entry (before going into kindergarten mode) he would have seen the reference to Rico, the border collie. As you say, they're not counting, but do recognize words. And as I've said a couple of times now: no one is lying, they saw what they saw. But how and why they saw what was happening is a different story. Maybe someone can explain that to Jay, cause he's got special mental and logic and reasoning powers. Or so he claims ;-)

Lou Figueroa
has some doubts
though

I didn't say King wasn't counting, I wasn't there to see it. I said I don't think my Uncle's dogs could count because I never saw them do it.

The latest in doggy news, now scientists are telling us our couch potatoes with legs have the ability to count.

 

[lfigueroa]

I didn't say King wasn't counting, I wasn't there to see it. I said I don't think my Uncle's dogs could count because I never saw them do it.

Oh, OK, sorry.

So what you're saying then is *if you saw* what looked like a dog counting, you'd believe they had mathematical cognition which they could demonstrate for the amusement of one and all. Right?

Lou Figueroa
or maybe...

 

[rayjay]

Wow, what an amazing dog! I've had good dogs for the last 30 yrs or so and know first hand how smart and sensitive and loving they can be. Thanks for sharing sir.

 

[alstl]

Oh, OK, sorry.

So what you're saying then is *if you saw* what looked like a dog counting, you'd believe they had mathematical cognition which they could demonstrate for the amusement of one and all. Right?

Lou Figueroa
or maybe...

Shocking isn't it?



Dogs Can Count?
We always knew they were smart anyway.


The latest in doggy news, now scientists are telling us our couch potatoes with legs have the ability to count. Are you surprised? For some reason, I'm not as surprised as I might have been. Perhaps that's because I've seen something similar to a "head-count" without really processing what I was seeing.

It is no big secret that shepherds have been utilizing dogs as flock guardians and herding helpers for centuries. There are tales of dogs who will search for one missing flock member until it is found. Maybe this has been accepted for so long, that nobody thought to wonder how they knew? Until now, that is.

Using eleven mixed breed dogs, Robert Young of Brazil's Catholic University of Minas Gerais, decided to test this theory. Young showed the dogs a number of dog treats, and after a sufficient length of time had passed, he lowered a screen, and removed treats, added some, or left them the same. Each time the number of treats changed, the pile was subjected to an intense stare. When the number stayed the same, the dogs appeared unworried.

Young believes that this ability stems from their ancient ancestors, the wolves. Wolves have a very complex social structure, and with basic mathematical abilities, the Alpha wolf would know how many allies or enemies he had within his pack...

Send the scientists a nastygram and tell them they are a bunch of idiots.

 

[lfigueroa]

Dogs Can Count?

Using eleven mixed breed dogs... Young showed the dogs a number of dog treats, and after a sufficient length of time had passed, he lowered a screen, and removed treats, added some, or left them the same. Each time the number of treats changed, the pile was subjected to an intense stare.

Oh, please. Don't tell me you're accepting dog staring as *any* kind of proof dogs can count?! I mean really, please. (You might want to know that the guy who writes the "headline" for a story, is not the guy who writes the article. The guy grabbing a story off a wire service isn't much better

Did you know, ferinstance, that dogs seem to care about "fairness," and that might be a factor, or that their sense of smell might be the issue?

And, if you want to play, would you kindly answer my original question, "Al (lol) in St. Louis."

Lou Figueroa
So what you're saying then is *if you saw* what looked like a dog counting, you'd believe they had mathematical cognition which they could demonstrate for the amusement of one and all. Right?

 

[Rick S.]

King would have Clever Hans going out and getting him coffee.

Beard

Love it.....too funny.