apparently not? Read the incardona post just made on this site, and then read the one incardona wrote on onepocket.org and then tell me that he didn't change his mind a little. Lol!
Scott Frost vs The So Called One Pocket Greats
- Thread starter watchez
- Start date
apparently not? Read the incardona post just made on this site, and then read the one incardona wrote on onepocket.org and then tell me that he didn't change his mind a little. Lol!
If they had a neutral breaker I would bet on Efren in his prime over Dennis ALL DAY LONG. Efren's break is going to hurt him in 10-ball, but in everything but the break Efren was a better player in his prime then Dennis.
Shane couldn't draw the ball like Shane on slow cloth either.
And he couldn't have drawn the ball any better than Cornbread or the Miz, who had just as powerful strokes. Maybe more powerful.
As for Mosconi, he didn't need that much power. His game was all about finesse. I will say this though, if it came down to drawing the ball accurately for position, I'll take Mosconi. He could stop the cue ball on a dime every time. The only modern player I've seen with that kind of pin point control is Efren.
Donny, you would have LOVED Lassiter's game, I promise you. He played the shortest way for position every time, and never hit a rail if he didn't have too. His cue ball control was superb, like it was on a string. He used to get upset if he got more than an inch out of line.
Doony, with all due respect pool is not a strength sport like football, baseball or even golf. It is more about finesse and knowledge. I do agree that in games like 9-Ball and Ten Ball today's best players may be better than the best players of a generation or two ago. Although I might add, that I saw money matches years ago where players ran rack after rack. That is where the best pool is usually played, in a back room with cash on the line.
In games like One Pocket and Straight Pool where there is so much emphasis on overall knowledge, I'm not so sure todays' players are any better than the best players of previous generations. Only Efren stands out from the pack in this respect. Moreso, if somehow Bugs and Taylor could magically be transported to the present, I think some eyes would bulge upon seeing them bank balls. They would adjust to the fast cloth overnight IMO.
My opinion, limited though it is, remains that the very best players from one, two and even three generations ago were the equal of the best players today. Guys like Mosconi, Crane, Caras, Lassiter, Worst, Balsis, Kelly and Mizerak could have played and done well in any generation. And in One Pocket, Ronnie is still the best I ever saw. Even better than Alex!
let me guess jack was better than woods?
Doony, with all due respect pool is not a strength sport like football, baseball or even golf. It is more about finesse and knowledge. I do agree that in games like 9-Ball and Ten Ball today's best players may be better than the best players of a generation or two ago. Although I might add, that I saw money matches years ago where players ran rack after rack. That is where the best pool is usually played, in a back room with cash on the line.
In games like One Pocket and Straight Pool where there is so much emphasis on overall knowledge, I'm not so sure todays' players are any better than the best players of previous generations. Only Efren stands out from the pack in this respect. Moreso, if somehow Bugs and Taylor could magically be transported to the present, I think some eyes would bulge upon seeing them bank balls. They would adjust to the fast cloth overnight IMO.
My opinion, limited though it is, remains that the very best players from one, two and even three generations ago were the equal of the best players today. Guys like Mosconi, Crane, Caras, Lassiter, Worst, Balsis, Kelly and Mizerak could have played and done well in any generation. And in One Pocket, Ronnie is still the best I ever saw. Even better than Alex!
Well if they say frost ran more balls than ronnie allen in his prime, and I couldn't imagine anyone except efren (who i bet invented alot of one pocket shots) out moving scott. If ronnie allen couldnt run balls like scott how could he beat him. Scott moves disgustingly good.
p.s. I liked the pool wars book.
As I said, without video you have no clue. Mosconi did not have the same stroke as SVB, his style was alot like snooker players, long, low on the cue, and extremely straight. That said Mosconi I am sure could stroke the ball with a tremendous amount of draw if he desired to.
That said I could give a rats ass in the results of a ball drawing contest between him and SVB, who cares? That is trick shot crap, how about SVB vs Mosconi in his prime in a race to 1000 straights?
And if the younger players are getting better, guess what I am pretty sure that even today in a goofy ball drawing contest that you seem to think means something that Earl will outstroke SVB in a test of who can outdraw the other.
Woods is Efren for all intensive purposes, Jay said Efren was the greatest, try to keep up Chris.
My take
I've seen a lot of players come and go and I grew up around a hodge-podge of world beaters at the dinner table. IMO Scott is the best one pocket player in the world today (Effie is a lil past his prime) BUT (and its a very big but) he woulda have batted about .500 against that list some of those guys would have ground him to a pulp. I've said it a million times before do I think the talent is there for todays players to out-perform those from yesteryear? Yes I do but the are not as battle tested as the guys like R.A,Eddie Taylor,Champagne Eddie, White Rags,Grady,the lil Gorilla,Cookie Monster,Hopkins, etc was. Pool is a dying sport its a sad fact. Ask any serious top player how much time they practice or are in serious action not much it's way to hard to find giving some local pool hall hero 15-5 isnt the same as squaring off against a steady diet of guys like Cornbread Red,Strawberry,Artie from Chicago,Cole Dixon,Ritchie Florence, etc. When the IPT was gathering steam I seen guys like Archer,Jones,Daulton etc start to practice again start to get into action with other top players to get that killer edge thats needed. Now due to the fincial state of pool those that can get out ASAP are promoting, making cues, do other things in the industry. So The Freezer is a bona-fide champion but if anyone thinks he beats almost all of that list they are delusional. The best of all time was Efren he is the 1pkt maestro wish he would of dedicated himself to the game 40 years ago
I've seen a lot of players come and go and I grew up around a hodge-podge of world beaters at the dinner table. IMO Scott is the best one pocket player in the world today (Effie is a lil past his prime) BUT (and its a very big but) he woulda have batted about .500 against that list some of those guys would have ground him to a pulp. I've said it a million times before do I think the talent is there for todays players to out-perform those from yesteryear? Yes I do but the are not as battle tested as the guys like R.A,Eddie Taylor,Champagne Eddie, White Rags,Grady,the lil Gorilla,Cookie Monster,Hopkins, etc was. Pool is a dying sport its a sad fact. Ask any serious top player how much time they practice or are in serious action not much it's way to hard to find giving some local pool hall hero 15-5 isnt the same as squaring off against a steady diet of guys like Cornbread Red,Strawberry,Artie from Chicago,Cole Dixon,Ritchie Florence, etc. When the IPT was gathering steam I seen guys like Archer,Jones,Daulton etc start to practice again start to get into action with other top players to get that killer edge thats needed. Now due to the fincial state of pool those that can get out ASAP are promoting, making cues, do other things in the industry. So The Freezer is a bona-fide champion but if anyone thinks he beats almost all of that list they are delusional. The best of all time was Efren he is the 1pkt maestro wish he would of dedicated himself to the game 40 years ago
no i cant.
Also if pool is not about any kind of strength then why aren't the girls as good as the men.
ROFL welcome to another 20 pages of posts....
I'm not an expert on golf and don't pretend to be. I will say this. Jack Nicklaus was damn good, especially under pressure. The biggest difference I see is that golfers today hit the ball further, thanks to the new technology. Jack could chip and putt with anyone, including todays stars. He won 18 majors against loaded fields - Watson, Trevino, Miller, Palmer, Player, Casper, Irwin and many more champions. Tiger hasn't caught him yet. :wink:
Lol i put "draw balls etc" etc also means fire a ball down the rail on tighter pockets, force follow long distance, jacked up long shots. If you didn't understand what I meant and how those shots add up after a while, then you might be lacking some understanding of the game.
I saw Bartram offer to play Shannon even 10 ball 2 years ago, and Shannon declined. Sorry to get off topic.
How does Dennis play better than Efren in his prime? They both run out whenever they get a shot, so that point is moot. Dennis probably breaks better than Efren ever did, but Efren shoots just as straight, kicks better, and controls the cueball better than any human that has ever played the game.
Considering that 100 times more men have played the game seriously, I'm surprised there are so many women today who play as well as they do. My opinion is that if they let the top ten or fifteen women (Jasmin, Yu Ram, Karen, Allison, Monica, Kelly, Ga Young, Pan and all those young guns from China) play in all the tournaments against the men, you might be singing a new tune.
Karen has already proven she can hold her own against the best men players in the Northeast. Yu Ram played a remarkable match beating Shane last year. Jasmin has done the same to a few men. In her match with Engert in 2008, she played brilliantly to win.
Pool is not about strength Donny. It is a game of touch and feel, and mental discipline. But you already know that.
I didn't say Scott ran more balls than Ronnie. Whoever said that either doesn't know or wasn't paying attention. I saw Ronnie run ten and out so many times, I lost count after a hundred or so. And many times he ran ten and out from no where!
P.S. I'm glad you liked the book.
I was thinking the same thing. Thats why I think people get better over time. Maybe a girl will be top 10 in the world 50 years from now.