Try TAP! The fastest growing pool league in the country!

Man, it's getting damned hard to fade the automatic kneejerk APA bashing that activates the instant anyone sees the word "league". Jesus christ, get over it already. Oh my god, you mean someone somewhere maybe won a pool game when they shouldn't have? That happens 6 times a night to me every time I get a bad f!@#ing roll. Let's all pile into the sandbagging wahmbulance and talk about it forever and hold each other until the tears dry!
...
And those that jump to its defense... you're just pissing on a house fire. The house is gonna burn down no matter what but now it smells like pee. How 'bout us sane folks just keep the forum urine free and let the trailer burn down in peace? Little timmy burned to a crisp, it's too late to even save the cat... let it go. There are more productive threads.
 
CreeDo said:
Let's all pile into the sandbagging wahmbulance and talk about it forever and hold each other until the tears dry!

OMG, that is so funny. :grin:


And those that jump to its defense... you're just pissing on a house fire. The house is gonna burn down no matter what but now it smells like pee. How 'bout us sane folks just keep the forum urine free and let the trailer burn down in peace? Little timmy burned to a crisp, it's too late to even save the cat... let it go. There are more productive threads.
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I am one who will "rush" to the defense, depending on the pissing contest at hand. If only to try to provide another viewpoint to try and balance the auto-pissing generated by the mere letters "APA". I give you as a prime example the lady who came on here a couple of weeks ago, new to the game and excited as all get out, and was looking for advice on how to find ways to play more often, and to be able to compete some. The first two pages were all about how she needed to avoid the APA. When it is entirely possible that the APA runs quite well in her area and might be a perfect fit for her. No one would let this person even think about that possibility, or at least to check it out.

Now the APA environment where she lives may indeed be poorly run, and may indeed be a bad choice for her. But the rest of the alphabet soup (TAP, BCA, VNEA, e-i-e-i-ooooooh) could be too. My point is that the APA needs to be looked at objectively on a case by case basis, not simply covered with a big, broad brush. That is why and how I will respond to this house fire, and I expect that I will continue to do so. Sorry of that annoys you, my friend. Because I refuse to let keyboard cowboys simply mis-represent things, and watch as all the usual suspects pile on, thinking that they are all sooo cool to complain about APA. When they all must realize by now that the league is for benginners, and if they are SO much above it, then they shouldn't worry about it, and realize it for what it is, and what it is good at.

Now see what I've gone and done.... sorry, CreeDo. :o

As to the OP, I have no experience with TAP, so I can't and won't comment. Unlike many who will quickly jump on APA based on what they've read and heard, and not experienced first-hand.
 
Answers to some of your questions from my post

1. The TAP rules are on www.tapleague.com Some of the big differences to the other league is a 25 point team limit, no slop on the 8 ball or if your playing 9 ball, both must be called pockets and the table is open after the break in 8 ball until a called ball is made.

2. Scorekeeping is keeping track of completions, misses, balls left on the table, made on the break, safes, early 8's, break and runs and 8 on the breaks.

3. A total of 21 matches is calculated, throwing the high and low out so a total of 19 matches is used to get a overall average.

4. I am not bashing the APA (or any other league for that matter) but I merely stated that TAP gained more new members then the APA last year (by approx. a 6-1 ratio). We know what we gained in numbers and they posted in IP mag what they did. No bashing at all, just stating their facts and ours.

5. I knew the APA people would come on here as if I stuck a stick in a hornets nest. They always do. TAP has sold all of these new areas I mentioned in the past 3 1/2 months and everyone was a APA member or former member. What does that tell you?

6. This will be my last post on here. If you have any questions about TAP, please call the numbers I posted or PM me. No matter what league you decide to play in...... enjoy the game, the competition and the night out with your friends. That is what it is all about.
 
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I don't hear of TAP doing things for pool like BCAPL is. Mark Griffin gets my vote/membership.... if there's any choices.
 
justadub said:
I give you as a prime example the lady who came on here a couple of weeks ago, new to the game and excited as all get out, and was looking for advice on how to find ways to play more often, and to be able to compete some. The first two pages were all about how she needed to avoid the APA. When it is entirely possible that the APA runs quite well in her area and might be a perfect fit for her. No one would let this person even think about that possibility, or at least to check it out.

Now the APA environment where she lives may indeed be poorly run, and may indeed be a bad choice for her. But the rest of the alphabet soup (TAP, BCA, VNEA, e-i-e-i-ooooooh) could be too. My point is that the APA needs to be looked at objectively on a case by case basis, not simply covered with a big, broad brush.
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I believe you're talking about me, and I was indeed put off by the pissing contest that goes on about the different leagues here.

So I decided to ignore the talk on here and seek out someone from each one and find out for myself. I went to league night and talked with the LO for each and watched them play. I could only find BCA and APA (no TAP yet), but what I found out was really disheartening.

BCA players bashed APA, APA players bashed BCA.....without fail, without my even asking for a comparison! Wtf? :angry:

I've opted out of both of them. I can get better practice and competition from my rebel Rack Pack group (tentative name!) who didn't like the crap on either league and struck out on their own. At least we play by tournament rules and forget the stupidity of the 'faux rules' that seem to permeate both sanctioned leagues. I mean.....isn't 8 on the break in 8-Ball a win...PERIOD? Why in the world would you call it something else? :confused:

I've done that twice so far, and I don't want any league taking that win away from me. Bugger that.

I am learning the game the way it should be played, I don't ever get to shoot again when I slop in a ball (so wrong to keep playing), and they don't 'give' me a game. They make me work for it. I don't see the guys in my group playing safe every other shot like I did watching the APA guys play. I watched players with easy cut shots bypass them to play safe. WTF!! Put the damn ball in the pocket!:banghead:

If this is what league play is all about, I'm not interested.

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

:deadhorse:
 
skiergirl55 said:
I believe you're talking about me, and I was indeed put off by the pissing contest that goes on about the different leagues here.

So I decided to ignore the talk on here and seek out someone from each one and find out for myself. I went to league night and talked with the LO for each and watched them play. I could only find BCA and APA (no TAP yet), but what I found out was really disheartening.

BCA players bashed APA, APA players bashed BCA.....without fail, without my even asking for a comparison! Wtf? :angry:

I've opted out of both of them. I can get better practice and competition from my rebel Rack Pack group (tentative name!) who didn't like the crap on either league and struck out on their own. At least we play by tournament rules and forget the stupidity of the 'faux rules' that seem to permeate both sanctioned leagues. I mean.....isn't 8 on the break in 8-Ball a win...PERIOD? Why in the world would you call it something else? :confused:

I've done that twice so far, and I don't want any league taking that win away from me. Bugger that.

I am learning the game the way it should be played, I don't ever get to shoot again when I slop in a ball (so wrong to keep playing), and they don't 'give' me a game. They make me work for it. I don't see the guys in my group playing safe every other shot like I did watching the APA guys play. I watched players with easy cut shots bypass them to play safe. WTF!! Put the damn ball in the pocket!:banghead:

If this is what league play is all about, I'm not interested.

Back to your regularly scheduled bickering.

:deadhorse:
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Thats kind of why the 8 ball on the break shouldn't count, you earn a win for slopping a certain ball in. By taking the 8 on the break away, you're forced to run the rack and out shoot your opponent. As for telling someone to just go ahead and make a shot that they can instead of playing safe, you might want to further your game before saying things like that. Alot of times someone will choose to play safe because they dont have a good next shot or opportunity to break out their next ball, so they play safe to get ball in hand or set up a better chance. Just a little strategy.
 
I played TAP a while back.....the league guy was cool.....the league had it's moments.....for the record, I kinda like the 8 ball counting on the break, as well as it being a loss if you make it and lose.....I also like the 9 counting in 9-ball.....the break is a skill shot, typically better players, with all things being equal, will sink more money balls on the break, so it's consistent with skill....

All leagues have pros and cons.....enjoyed my time in APA, but hated it because as my friends got better, we could no longer field a team. Enjoyed my time in TAP, but it had it's shortcoming as well......right now I am playing BCA - it's fun, but playing 1 game and then sitting is taking some getting used to....

IMHO, management of these leagues only require 1 thing to improve - they ALL need to keep a close watch over their league operators.....if you have a gracious, friendly, fair LO, ANY system can work.....none of these leagues work for every person, but your LO is your walking advertisement and the face of your league.....top notch LO's can and will build a solid customer base and help your business....

At least that's how I see it...
 
skiergirl55 said:
I believe you're talking about me, and I was indeed put off by the pissing contest that goes on about the different leagues here.
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Yes, your's was the example I was referencing, and I'm sorry if I drew you back into this whole mess. It's just that your case is a prime example of how folks seem to behave (or don't behave well) sometimes.

I always try to be objective, and realize that what may be the case in front of me might not be the case somewhere else. This is a BIG country filled with A LOT of different people, and each experience is quite likely to be different. Just like perspectives are quite likely to be different. That is the part that discourages me the most about these threads, be they APA-bashing, or TAP-bashing as seems to be the case in this thread. Or any other sort. It is too easy to hide behind a keyboard and proclaim how awful something is.

You will find me defending how the APA runs in my area, though there are certainly aspects that I don't agree with. I find that my experience is good enough that the parts that I don't like aren't overtaking my enjoyment of league night each week. And that's good enough for me. If your experience in whatever league that you are playing in is unsatisfactory, then you should probably not be playing in that league. But you should keep an open mind that not everyone sees it the way you do, and that things might not happen that way in other area's.

End sermon. :o

So far as the things you don't like about APA, slop is, well, slop. It isn't high-level play, and it isn't designed to be. It is allowed to make it easier for the beginner. So long as we are all playing by the same rules, it shouldn't be that big a deal. You will find that you don't see a ton of slop shots in games between higher leveled participants. Yes, it does happen occasionally, but even then the shooter usually grins and shakes his/her head because it's silly. But very infrequent. Heck, I'm just an SL4 and I played another SL4 this week, with no slop in the four games that we played. I don't remember it happening all that much in any of my recent matches, and I'm not exactly what you would call high-level.

8-on-the-break counts as a win in APA. Happened in that same match I just referenced, by my opponent. Don't know the 9-ball rules.

Downed balls on a scratch staying down, well, see the slop discussion above. Happens so infrequently in the matches I see that it really isn't a big deal either. We never count them as down in our in-house matches, either. It's simply how APA runs things to make it easier for the beginner, and you'll find that it doesn;t affect things too much, too often. At least I haven't.

Maybe TAP is doing some things better, or that make it a more enjoyable experience for those who play it. Maybe not. Same for BCA, and the others. The thing is to play, and to enjoy it. And to stop crapping on other peoples enjoyment. We all ought to be having more fun and having fewer pissing contests.
 
Big Dog said:
How can you want to play in a league where the 8 counts on the break, and if you scratch on the break while making the 8 you lose the game?
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Erm, don't these rules also apply in the APA?

Besides, don't they also make the game of 8-ball more interesting and less predictable? AFAIK even the best breaker will only make the 8-ball on a small percentage of all his breaks. Among other things I think it encourages players to improve their breaking skills. A small element of chance means the minnow can win a game against a great white, and maybe, if all the balls roll well for him that night, even a match. But such a scenario will only happen rarely - as it should. (After playing about 40-45 league games, despite improving my break, I haven't made an 8-on-the-break once, and I rarely see others do it). Winning a game - no matter how - is good for lesser players' confidence and motivation. A shot at taking down a big gun is always an enticing prospect.

I for one will be willing to try TAP should it come to my area. What have a I got to lose? I bet it's better than most of the (usual) cynics here are painting it. And more competition with the locally established (and probably complacent) leagues can only be a good thing. More competition usually encourages better quality and better priced products.
 
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beav99_4life said:
Thats kind of why the 8 ball on the break shouldn't count, you earn a win for slopping a certain ball in. By taking the 8 on the break away, you're forced to run the rack and out shoot your opponent. As for telling someone to just go ahead and make a shot that they can instead of playing safe, you might want to further your game before saying things like that. Alot of times someone will choose to play safe because they dont have a good next shot or opportunity to break out their next ball, so they play safe to get ball in hand or set up a better chance. Just a little strategy.
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I know about playing safe: this wasn't it at all. The people I watched playing were fairly skilled and were playing safe with at least 3 easy shots on the table (let's put it this way........I could have made them all).

It seemed excessive use of the safety play. The game went on and on and on. Put in the 3 that you can make and then play safe. I didn't get it, and neither did my friend who was there playing in the league. We were both shaking our heads. There is a time to play safe and a time to just pocket balls.
 
skiergirl55 said:
I know about playing safe: this wasn't it at all. The people I watched playing were fairly skilled and were playing safe with at least 3 easy shots on the table (let's put it this way........I could have made them all).

It seemed excessive use of the safety play. The game went on and on and on. Put in the 3 that you can make and then play safe. I didn't get it, and neither did my friend who was there playing in the league. We were both shaking our heads. There is a time to play safe and a time to just pocket balls.
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actually, it is smarter to play the safety first. don't kill your soldiers until you can kill them all at once!!!
 
skiergirl55...You came on here only a few weeks ago, a TOTAL newbie to playing pool...and now you "know all about playing safe"? BS. Just because the shots 'looked' easy to you, doesn't mean that the shooter made the wrong move. It takes years to learn a lot about playing safe...it doesn't happen in a couple weeks, no matter how 'smart' you think you are. BTW, 9ball is a "slop" game...all you have to do is hit the lowest numbered ball on the table, and anything goes...if you make the 9, you win. Even at the pro level, it is played this way (the exception is a very few pro events where you have to call the 9). Come down off your high horse, and you'll get along better. You can play in your little group, but before too long you'll get bored playing only each other. Many posters here offered you sound advice. It is your choice to ignore it or not. :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

skiergirl55 said:
I know about playing safe: this wasn't it at all. The people I watched playing were fairly skilled and were playing safe with at least 3 easy shots on the table (let's put it this way........I could have made them all).

It seemed excessive use of the safety play. The game went on and on and on. Put in the 3 that you can make and then play safe. I didn't get it, and neither did my friend who was there playing in the league. We were both shaking our heads. There is a time to play safe and a time to just pocket balls.
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skiergirl55 said:
I know about playing safe: this wasn't it at all. The people I watched playing were fairly skilled and were playing safe with at least 3 easy shots on the table (let's put it this way........I could have made them all). How many balls were left on the table? Were there problem balls?

It seemed excessive use of the safety play. The game went on and on and on. Put in the 3 that you can make and then play safe. I didn't get it, and neither did my friend who was there playing in the league What is your friends skill level in league?. We were both shaking our heads. There is a time to play safe and a time to just pocket balls.
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Why pocket all of your easy balls, clearing them out of your opponents way if you can't get out? Safety play is best executed before it is the only option left.

It's called strategy. Some people play 8 ball like they are playing marbles others play like it's a chess match. Every shot has a purpose and it isn't always to pocket a ball.

I've been playing APA for about 5yrs and I can honestly say that slop has effected the outcome of a match on a rare occasion, but it usually isn't a factor.

I cannot speak to the other leagues because I haven't played in them. APA is pretty much the only game in town. Around here when you walk into a bar, you are more than likely going to be playing APA rules because that's what most everyone participates in and knows.


:cool:
 
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Okay, taken down of the high horse. I've been foolish to think I know what I'm seeing. My friend is a good player....he's 68 and has been playing a long time. I don't know his rating, but I'd have to guess he's SL6.
I guess I'm never going to be a real pool player because whenever there are 6 balls each on the table in 8 ball and all you do is push them around and make a game last 25 minutes while your teammates sit around.....

well, it just doesn't look like very much fun to me. :(

I can understand playing safe in 9 ball. But right after the break in 8 ball when all of the balls are on the table? Inform me of what I'm missing.
 
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Eventually, when you want to win and beat high skill level players, you will do what it takes. Many times that means playing safe. I took countless beatings when I started out, luckily I had some good players that punished me when I would try to runout and fail instead of playing an easy safe and staying alive.

I may not be a great player, but I play to win. I dont care how long the match last and I would gladly watch a team mate play a really long match if thats what it took.
 
skiergirl55 said:
Okay, taken down of the high horse. I've been foolish to think I know what I'm seeing. My friend is a good player....he's 68 and has been playing a long time. I don't know his rating, but I'd have to guess he's SL6.
I guess I'm never going to be a real pool player because whenever there are 6 balls each on the table in 8 ball and all you do is push them around and make a game last 25 minutes while your teammates sit around.....

well, it just doesn't look like very much fun to me. :(

I can understand playing safe in 9 ball. But right after the break in 8 ball when all of the balls are on the table? Inform me of what I'm missing.
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You're not missing anything, it's a moronic rule. I'd have fun with a rule like this. I would probably smack the balls around as hard as I could until the other guy actually starts shooting.
 
Okay. I'm just not that high a skilled player yet. I don't know what I can't make, so I have to keep trying these shots. I can't learn by playing safe, so I need to keep banging them around, learning the angles, learning the hard shots, learning to make the shots everyone else takes for granted. I won't be learning that on a league and I will save my money and just play the 50 cent games and 5 times as many of them for what I'd spend on league fees each week.

League play is not for me right now.
 
skiergirl55 said:
Okay, taken down of the high horse.
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Skiergirl55--

Regarding the safety plays you are referring to and without total knowledge of the game situation or which league either, I will be speculating a little.

It could have been the correct strategical play as others have stated, or it could have been an attempt to sandbag if it was in the APA. Not all games, in fact most games, are not runout games. Strategy is very, very important in all games. If you think other wise, you will soon be very disappointed with pool.

As JCIN said, the eight ball on the break is slop. It has never officially been a win in the history of organized pool as I know it. The eight-ball on the break most likely became a win shortly after the introduction of coin operated machines. At any high level of play, players would prefer to take this out of the game.

If you wonder why 8-ball is the most popular game, I think it is obviously driven by coin operated tables. It is difficult and expensive to play any other game (nine ball, one pocket, 14.1) on these types of tables.

The BCA has been the standard for rules for many years. I believe they are about as good as you can get.

Good Luck with finding the right game for you.
 
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