9-ball break advanced question.

[Solartje]

HI all, i'm trying the master the 9ball break, trying to learn where all the balls are going (more then just the corner ball), and i have one question.

If i hit from the siderail (out of the kitchen), what spin or angle do i need to use, so that the one ball hits the long rail, under the side pocket instead of above.

My 1ball is always hitting the long rail above and ending close to the middle of the short rail in the kitchen. Id like it to hit right under the middle pocket so it goes closer to the corner pocket, so that when i leave my cb in the middle of the table i have a better chance on the one ball..

Topspin and folow true give me a better result on the wingball and other balls, but im still not getting the 1ball to go where i want.

Do you hit the one full in the fase so it jumpes back in the line (between 1ball and from where you are breaking), or do you just slighty hit it right off full in the fase so it jumps back in the line (between 1ball - center of the table - middle of short end rail)

Do you use any sidespin (i hope not, as this will be hard to master), to make the one ball touch under the middle pocket?

edit: forgot a question, when you move the CB further from the siderail on the break (because the table is a little off), how do adjust your aim/spin so the one ball keeps going under the middle pocket

 

[Junkyarddog]

Bottom english will force the head ball forward. As you move towards the center it will give you a higher probability of keeping the head ball below the side pocket but decrease your chances of making a ball with a direct hit. If you haven't already watch Joe Tucker's Racking Secrets for a good start on rack-logics.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Hopefully I'm right on the following...

To get the one ball to go lower you do any or all of these:

1) hit lower on the CB
2) hit the one a little on the side. If you break from the right rail, hit the 1 a little on the right
3) hit the CB easier

Note, each of these will also make the same side wing ball go lower.

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

When you move the cueball farther away from the siderail and hit the 1ball full, it tends to hit the siderail lower, but your chances of making the wingball decrease.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

When you move the cueball farther away from the siderail and hit the 1ball full, it tends to hit the siderail lower, but your chances of making the wingball decrease.

Yup. The more you move the CB towards the middle, the more the wing ball hits higher on the long rail. From what I know, everything you do to get the one ball to hit lower, makes the wing ball hit higher.

 

[Johnnyt]

When you move the cueball farther away from the siderail and hit the 1ball full, it tends to hit the siderail lower, but your chances of making the wingball decrease.

I agree this is the best way to get the 1-ball to hit before the side pocket. Also if you're trying to see where all the balls go on the break doing different things, use a video camera. Johnnyt

 

[incognito]

HI all, i'm trying the master the 9ball break, trying to learn where all the balls are going (more then just the corner ball), and i have one question.

If you want to learn all about rack reading, where the balls go, and how to play specific balls, buy Joe Tucker's 'Racking Secrets' DVD. It's an outstanding DVD and It'll teach you just about everything you want to know about the 9-ball break. I bought this and some of his instructional DVDs, and Joe really knows his shit. He's really done his homework on reading the 9-ball rack, and he also tells you about the 8-ball and 10-ball racks.

http://www.joetucker.net/store/racking_secrets.htm

 

[master9baller]

9 ball break

Another remedy is to play the 1 ball in the side as your break shot. With a consistent hit on tables that play similiarly you can play the 1.

I was making the 1 on the break very well for awhile, but now have a new break cue that hit's differently, but breaks like a monster. On faster tables the 1 ball is coming within a few inches of the head rail on my full break. Frequently I have the 1 just miss the side hole and it comes to rest at the head rail. Because of this I now try to get the CB back to the break line or 3rd diamond so I have a 1st shot. Sometimes I just let up a bit so the 1 doesn't go all the way to the rail and play the wing ball on the break.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Another remedy is to play the 1 ball in the side as your break shot. With a consistent hit on tables that play similiarly you can play the 1.

I was making the 1 on the break very well for awhile, but now have a new break cue that hit's differently, but breaks like a monster. On faster tables the 1 ball is coming within a few inches of the head rail on my full break. Frequently I have the 1 just miss the side hole and it comes to rest at the head rail. Because of this I now try to get the CB back to the break line or 3rd diamond so I have a 1st shot. Sometimes I just let up a bit so the 1 doesn't go all the way to the rail and play the wing ball on the break.

I prefer not to make the 1 ball 'cause you can't count on getting on the 2 ball since it's typically racked in a different spot every rack.

I zone in on making the wing. Once I have that pretty well figured, I can focus on the 1 and the CB alligning in sweet harmony. If I can figure it all out before my 4th beer, I'm in for a good night. After 4, my nose is wider than a VW.

 

[Solartje]

Hopefully I'm right on the following...

To get the one ball to go lower you do any or all of these:

1) hit lower on the CB
2) hit the one a little on the side. If you break from the right rail, hit the 1 a little on the right
3) hit the CB easier

Note, each of these will also make the same side wing ball go lower.

ok thanks for the info.

the 1/ option im not so crazy about it. The cb already comes back from the collision, so i need some top to keep it from coming to far back and stay in the middle. maybe 1/ + 3/ is the choice then. just hit it less hard so the CB isnt kicked back as far.

2/ gonna test with that and moving the cb a bit more to the middle.

I have read the racking secrets books ,and ive done some intensive video analysing of pro's etc, but its hard to see exactly what they are doing.


isn't it posible to still hit the one ball head on and use half a tip of side to squeeze spin the cb under the side pocket? Im not sure but i think i read someone say this some years ago on the forum.

 

[Mr Hoppe]

If you want to learn all about rack reading, where the balls go, and how to play specific balls, buy Joe Tucker's 'Racking Secrets' DVD. It's an outstanding DVD and It'll teach you just about everything you want to know about the 9-ball break. I bought this and some of his instructional DVDs, and Joe really knows his shit. He's really done his homework on reading the 9-ball rack, and he also tells you about the 8-ball and 10-ball racks.

http://www.joetucker.net/store/racking_secrets.htm

x2. No "9-ball player" should be without it.
Mr H

 

[SpinDoctor]

x2. No "9-ball player" should be without it.
Mr H

I agree. This is a must have DVD.

 

[TATE]

HI all, i'm trying the master the 9ball break, trying to learn where all the balls are going (more then just the corner ball), and i have one question.

If i hit from the siderail (out of the kitchen), what spin or angle do i need to use, so that the one ball hits the long rail, under the side pocket instead of above.

My 1ball is always hitting the long rail above and ending close to the middle of the short rail in the kitchen. Id like it to hit right under the middle pocket so it goes closer to the corner pocket, so that when i leave my cb in the middle of the table i have a better chance on the one ball..

Topspin and folow true give me a better result on the wingball and other balls, but im still not getting the 1ball to go where i want.

Do you hit the one full in the fase so it jumpes back in the line (between 1ball and from where you are breaking), or do you just slighty hit it right off full in the fase so it jumps back in the line (between 1ball - center of the table - middle of short end rail)

Do you use any sidespin (i hope not, as this will be hard to master), to make the one ball touch under the middle pocket?

edit: forgot a question, when you move the CB further from the siderail on the break (because the table is a little off), how do adjust your aim/spin so the one ball keeps going under the middle pocket

There is another adjustment to consider. Have you tried moving the cueball back (further from the rack) a few inches at a time?

This can change the hit on the 1 ball by letting the cue ball land sooner. This changes the height that the cue ball contacts the one and gives you a different break impact and result.

When my cue ball goes hopping up, I move it back a little (thanks to Frank the Barber's advice) and it gives me a cleaner break. If you get a better break, the one ball may end up where you want it.

Chris

 

[CreeDo]

Before you waste a ton of time, make sure you get a serious rack, not an everyday rack made of plastic or wood. Use a magic ball rack or similar, or at least Delta 13.

You will not get consistent and meaningful results if you use a rack that leaves tiny gaps everywhere. You'll see the balls do one thing on the first break, then something different on the next break, and you'll swear you didn't change anything. Or you changed to try for result A but you mysteriously get result B. Without a tight rack you're wasting your time trying to control the outcome or make predictions.

I always thought moving further out to side made the 1 ball go more below the side... but others are saying the opposite. I'll test and see what results I get. But notice when shane breaks in 10b, he's fairly close to the center (definitely inside the box) and the 1 consistently ends up near the far corner. Sometimes falls in. Different rack though, so I guess different results can be expected.

 

[mullyman]

Before you waste a ton of time, make sure you get a serious rack, not an everyday rack made of plastic or wood. Use a magic ball rack or similar, or at least Delta 13.

You will not get consistent and meaningful results if you use a rack that leaves tiny gaps everywhere. You'll see the balls do one thing on the first break, then something different on the next break,

Yep, and unless you put the balls in the exact same order every time it's going to come up random again. As it should. I always liked Nick Varner's break. He doesn't even try to leave the cue ball in the center of the table. He puts a touch of low on it and brings it back up table. The one usually comes off that side rail and goes up table so you might as well play position for it. That's what I usually do and it works out well most of the time.
MULLY

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Yep, and unless you put the balls in the exact same order every time it's going to come up random again. As it should. I always liked Nick Varner's break. He doesn't even try to leave the cue ball in the center of the table. He puts a touch of low on it and brings it back up table. The one usually comes off that side rail and goes up table so you might as well play position for it. That's what I usually do and it works out well most of the time.
MULLY

Exactly. For purposes of the OP's research he should definitely be pattern racking the same way every time. For instance:

1
2 3
4 9 5
6 7
8

 

[Underclocked]

Master the 9 ball break...

sorry, couldn't help it.

 

[Solartje]

There is another adjustment to consider. Have you tried moving the cueball back (further from the rack) a few inches at a time?

This can change the hit on the 1 ball by letting the cue ball land sooner. This changes the height that the cue ball contacts the one and gives you a different break impact and result.

When my cue ball goes hopping up, I move it back a little (thanks to Frank the Barber's advice) and it gives me a cleaner break. If you get a better break, the one ball may end up where you want it.

Chris

never thought of that! thanks tate. that looks like another parameter i can use to my advantage. right now im doing some testing al low speed, so the CB isn't jumping at all, but i will test at higher speeds once i understand and feel the subtile differences of draw on slow speeds.


@ All.
My table is tapped. I have a perfect rack each time, so it helps me really see the small differences.

I did around 50 breaks yesterday experimenting, and i must say, using draw is the parameter that seems to be the easyest to controle, and influence the oneball the most without moving the path of the wingball.

the difference in half a tip of more or less draw on the one ball is huge. I did most of the testing at the same breakspead (at 50%), and now i can finally let the 1 hit the siderail where i want. half a tip = middle pocket, one tip = 2-3" under middle pocket, max draw = almost one diamond of the pocket.

I wasn't breaking at full speed, so the one rarely came high enough to pass the kitchenline and be a sitting duck in the corner, but instead rest close to the middle of the table. so drawing the cb enough to where i was breaking from gave me a good shot on the one in the middle and still be hard enough for the opposite 1ball to bank into the kitchen corner, and the 2line ball to bank in the middle pocket. pocket 3-4 balls on the break is starting to become regular (thanks to the perfect rack though, i know, but im finally understanding the subltile difference, so that i can use it to my advantage on a bad table...).


is seems like there is one ideal speed to play the shot.

medium speed:

A/ half tip of draw = cb in the middle, one ball is pocketed (no sure of a shot left on the 2ball)

B/ 1 tip of draw = cb at same place from where i broke, one ball goes under middle and rests close to the middle of the table. (this seems to be ideal for now, for the one ball, but the break is very close to a soft break, and to much balls resting on the lowerpart of the table)

C/ max draw = cb at endrail, one ball close to corner (difficult pot)

the hint about hitting if you break from the left, to hit the one ball slightly to the left is making the one go higher, hitting it slightly to the right, so the CB comes back in the line between both spots, makes it go lower.

im gonna do some more testing, at higher speeds to the spread is better, and use the knowledge i gained from slow breaking to adjust the parameters.

thanks for all the advice!!!

I love this forum

 

[Black-Balled]

Yep, and unless you put the balls in the exact same order every time it's going to come up random again. As it should. I always liked Nick Varner's break. He doesn't even try to leave the cue ball in the center of the table. He puts a touch of low on it and brings it back up table. The one usually comes off that side rail and goes up table so you might as well play position for it. That's what I usually do and it works out well most of the time.
MULLY

I also generally get better results- as far as position on the 1 after the break- by bringing the CB uptable as well.

Solly- as far as 'knowing' how the break will work, aren't your results only going to consider data from your own table? Each table is different...

I think best breakis found by having break options that you can use as necessary, then finding out which is working on whatever table you are playing on.

 

[TATE]

never thought of that! thanks tate. that looks like another parameter i can use to my advantage. right now im doing some testing al low speed, so the CB isn't jumping at all, but i will test at higher speeds once i understand and feel the subtile differences of draw on slow speeds.


@ All.
My table is tapped. I have a perfect rack each time, so it helps me really see the small differences.

I did around 50 breaks yesterday experimenting, and i must say, using draw is the parameter that seems to be the easyest to controle, and influence the oneball the most without moving the path of the wingball.

the difference in half a tip of more or less draw on the one ball is huge. I did most of the testing at the same breakspead (at 50%), and now i can finally let the 1 hit the siderail where i want. half a tip = middle pocket, one tip = 2-3" under middle pocket, max draw = almost one diamond of the pocket.

I wasn't breaking at full speed, so the one rarely came high enough to pass the kitchenline and be a sitting duck in the corner, but instead rest close to the middle of the table. so drawing the cb enough to where i was breaking from gave me a good shot on the one in the middle and still be hard enough for the opposite 1ball to bank into the kitchen corner, and the 2line ball to bank in the middle pocket. pocket 3-4 balls on the break is starting to become regular (thanks to the perfect rack though, i know, but im finally understanding the subltile difference, so that i can use it to my advantage on a bad table...).


is seems like there is one ideal speed to play the shot.

medium speed:

A/ half tip of draw = cb in the middle, one ball is pocketed (no sure of a shot left on the 2ball)

B/ 1 tip of draw = cb at same place from where i broke, one ball goes under middle and rests close to the middle of the table. (this seems to be ideal for now, for the one ball, but the break is very close to a soft break, and to much balls resting on the lowerpart of the table)

C/ max draw = cb at endrail, one ball close to corner (difficult pot)

the hint about hitting if you break from the left, to hit the one ball slightly to the left is making the one go higher, hitting it slightly to the right, so the CB comes back in the line between both spots, makes it go lower.

im gonna do some more testing, at higher speeds to the spread is better, and use the knowledge i gained from slow breaking to adjust the parameters.

thanks for all the advice!!!

I love this forum

Let us know what you find out - what you think is the most effective break and what your objective is.

Chris