WPBA Announces Presidential Resignation

[ShootingArts]

probably still the wrong person

dave...I know John, have been to his house, worked with him, and spoken with him about his desires to help the women succeed. He may be "rough around the edges", but the man KNOWS business, has contacts everywhere, and sincerely wanted to help out. The women have shot themselves in the foot on this one, imo, and I'm not the only one in the industry who believes this. I have always been (and still am) a huge supporter of the WPBA, but I think this was simply a bad move. With only two events in their "tour", the WPBA better sit up take some notice, if they expect to survive into 2011. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott,

I think the WPBA badly needs a strong leader right now. However they need one that can get along with people inside and outside the association. It is gonna take some serious smoozing and deal making to get the WPBA back on track and from all indications John wasn't the man to fill that bill. Not saying John isn't a good leader in the right circumstances, wrong man at the wrong time for the WPBA.

Having said that, unless the WPBA unites behind a strong leader I think it's all over but the crying. Committees are a wonderful thing in the early going but then you have to select a leader and let them lead. Everybody has to accept that a leader may not be perfect and will never please everyone all the time since everyone has different ideas anyway.

I'd be inclined to elect a woman as president of the WPBA board for two reasons. One it is the Woman's PBA. The other reason is a little sneakier. My ex and I had a lot of regulatory oversight in some businesses we had. After awhile we adopted a policy of me dealing with the ladies and her dealing with the men. Side steps the ego issues such as John acknowledged on this forum and a little chivalry sometimes comes into play. For whatever reasons things just ran much smoother once we each started dealing with the opposite sex. I suspect most sponsor and host rep's are men so I would have a lady dealing with them. Not suggesting anything the least bit unethical, the social dynamics are just better.

Hu

 

[JDB]

Scott,

I think the WPBA badly needs a strong leader right now.

I have one man's initials; SJM. Given his affinity of the WPBA over the last several years, as evidenced by his posts, his pedigree (ivy league education and wallstreet) and current situation (retired in his 50's by choice) and pure love of the game (again, evidenced by his posts) I think he would be an outstanding choice to lead the organization.

 

[watchez]

dave...I know John, have been to his house, worked with him, and spoken with him about his desires to help the women succeed. He may be "rough around the edges", but the man KNOWS business, has contacts everywhere, and sincerely wanted to help out. The women have shot themselves in the foot on this one, imo, and I'm not the only one in the industry who believes this. I have always been (and still am) a huge supporter of the WPBA, but I think this was simply a bad move. With only two events in their "tour", the WPBA better sit up take some notice, if they expect to survive into 2011. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Again - you can't make demands on the players, tell them to follow you without actually showing them something substantial they are following towards. He failed.

 

[Joe_Jaguar]

Does anyone know the official reason why Diamond was chosen over Brunswick?

Why did J.R. say that the WPBA would not be ripped off by Brunswick?

All the rumors/reports have been that Brunswick thought they were entitled to a free ride as a title sponsor.

 

[ShootingArts]

He could do it if anybody could

I have one man's initials; SJM. Given his affinity of the WPBA over the last several years, as evidenced by his posts, his pedigree (ivy league education and wallstreet) and current situation (retired in his 50's by choice) and pure love of the game (again, evidenced by his posts) I think he would be an outstanding choice to lead the organization.

Assuming you are talking about AZB"s SJM he could get the job done if anyone could. Very smart, gets along well with people. The ladies of the WPBA might get along with a man as president better than a lady for the reasons I mentioned in my last post too. I'd still pick a lady with similar qualities to lead a women's association.

At this point it doesn't matter much, if they don't unite and move in one direction there isn't going to be a WPBA for anyone to lead. From what little information comes to an outsider it sounds like the ladies are angry and upset over issues that have been building for years and some of them have committed to "my way or no way". Once that attitude takes over it is hard for any association to survive, especially one with a structure that forces the "leader" into a position of weakness.

The ladies have a good product but I've never felt that they did a real good job of marketing it. With the possible exposure they have had for this many years they should have a very substantial bankroll and be able to negotiate from a position of strength. Instead they seem to be imploding. I very sincerely wish them luck. Unfortunately I think luck or a sharp turn in their way of thinking is all that can save them now.

Hu

 

[JAM]

Assuming you are talking about AZB"s SJM he could get the job done if anyone could. Very smart, gets along well with people. The ladies of the WPBA might get along with a man as president better than a lady for the reasons I mentioned in my last post too. I'd still pick a lady with similar qualities to lead a women's association.

At this point it doesn't matter much, if they don't unite and move in one direction there isn't going to be a WPBA for anyone to lead. From what little information comes to an outsider it sounds like the ladies are angry and upset over issues that have been building for years and some of them have committed to "my way or no way". Once that attitude takes over it is hard for any association to survive, especially one with a structure that forces the "leader" into a position of weakness.

The ladies have a good product but I've never felt that they did a real good job of marketing it. With the possible exposure they have had for this many years they should have a very substantial bankroll and be able to negotiate from a position of strength. Instead they seem to be imploding. I very sincerely wish them luck. Unfortunately I think luck or a sharp turn in their way of thinking is all that can save them now.

Hu

You make some very astute points, Hu.

My take on it is the same as it's always been for professional pool in the United States.

The existing lot of professional pool players in America is dwindling. The availability of professional-caliber tournaments to compete in with decent payouts are becoming more and more frequent at overseas locations. The expense of attending these tournaments are high. Unless you have a corpulent stakehorse or a generous industry sponsor, it makes it difficult to play pool on a professional level. Professional pool today is a rich man/woman's high.

Those professional players who continue to step up to the plate have my deepest respect. The fact that they are still out there giving it their all is a tribute to their passion for pool. God bless all professional pool players around the world but especially in these United States of America. The environment in the year 2010 for American professional players is not an easy one to thrive in.

 

[ShootingArts]

You make some very astute points, Hu.

My take on it is the same as it's always been for professional pool in the United States.

The existing lot of professional pool players in America is dwindling. The availability of professional-caliber tournaments to compete in with decent payouts are becoming more and more frequent at overseas locations. The expense of attending these tournaments are high. Unless you have a corpulent stakehorse or a generous industry sponsor, it makes it difficult to play pool on a professional level. Professional pool today is a rich man/woman's high.

Those professional players who continue to step up to the plate have my deepest respect. The fact that they are still out there giving it their all is a tribute to their passion for pool. God bless all professional pool players around the world but especially in these United States of America. The environment in the year 2010 for American professional players is not an easy one to thrive in.

JAM,

Unfortunately you nail it there. No outside sponsorship for pool, any we have had we lost due to regulatory issues or our own foolishness. That leaves a few industry sponsors who really have little reason to step up to the plate they have a captive audience, and rich sugar daddies. Forget the rich sugar daddies, that is another word for a hobby sport. That means that only a fortunate few, probably less than a dozen, US players can financially justify playing pro pool looking only at tournaments. Unfortunately this isn't really anything new. It was true 50 years ago, it is true today. Sad to say eating contests are more of a professional sport in the US than pool is today. Worse yet, nothing seems to be happening inside pool to make any changes.

Without some basic changes in pool to attract real outside corporate sponsorship somebody will be sitting around fifty years from now saying the same things about pool that you and I are saying today. I do acknowledge some efforts taking place right now by good and sincere people. Unfortunately there have been many such efforts over the years and I'm afraid that the pool world just casts a weary eye towards these things and thinks "here we go again". My time has lone since passed but I have to admit when I see people trying to do something good for pool I sincerely wish them luck and say God bless them, but I don't get my hopes up to be dashed again. I would be a lousy rep for any pool association.

Hu

 

[Scott Lee]

watchez...I have to respectfully disagree with you here. John was in a decision-making position only a few months. Sometimes it takes longer than that to put things together. He had MANY irons in the fire, regarding things getting better for the WPBA. Now none of them will come to fruition...to the detrement of the ladies tour.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Again - you can't make demands on the players, tell them to follow you without actually showing them something substantial they are following towards. He failed.

 

[dardusm]

JAM,

Unfortunately you nail it there. No outside sponsorship for pool, any we have had we lost due to regulatory issues or our own foolishness. That leaves a few industry sponsors who really have little reason to step up to the plate they have a captive audience, and rich sugar daddies. Forget the rich sugar daddies, that is another word for a hobby sport. That means that only a fortunate few, probably less than a dozen, US players can financially justify playing pro pool looking only at tournaments. Unfortunately this isn't really anything new. It was true 50 years ago, it is true today. Sad to say eating contests are more of a professional sport in the US than pool is today. Worse yet, nothing seems to be happening inside pool to make any changes.

Without some basic changes in pool to attract real outside corporate sponsorship somebody will be sitting around fifty years from now saying the same things about pool that you and I are saying today. I do acknowledge some efforts taking place right now by good and sincere people. Unfortunately there have been many such efforts over the years and I'm afraid that the pool world just casts a weary eye towards these things and thinks "here we go again". My time has lone since passed but I have to admit when I see people trying to do something good for pool I sincerely wish them luck and say God bless them, but I don't get my hopes up to be dashed again. I would be a lousy rep for any pool association.

Hu

I don't believe that outside sponsorship is necessary to having a pro tour. Outside sponsorship may play a part in the future to grow the sport and add $$$ to the prize fund. Thus making it possible for someone to make a decent living playing pool. The key is for the players (men and women) to get organized and on the same page (good luck ).

Mark Griffin had the same idea when he started the CSI series. Here is my idea. The players organize to create an associaton (can create leader points) that sanctions tournaments from independent promoters of successful reputable tournaments. i.e US Open, CSI series, DCC, Seminole Pro Tour Stops, etc. Don't make getting sanctioned too tough or strict on the promoters. Down the line when the tour has more teeth then guaranteed purses, putting money in escrow, fees, etc can be negotiated (way down the line). Possibly other stops could be added with Industry sponsorship for one tournament (instead of a whole tour) i.e. The "Mali" 10 ball Open. This way the sponsor is being asked to sponsor one stop versus a whole tour.

Use online streaming to cover the tournaments. The quality is getting better (BigTruck's HD stream). Down the line, TV might be possible but don't put the cart before the horse. The audiences may not be large (yet) for advertisers of streams but it is definitely the market that the pool industry wants to reach. Pool nuts :smile:

This could just be the start. When having a "tour stop", media packets (including player write ups) would be provided for print and tv media with passes, etc. Other ideas would be pro ams, exhibitions, etc. without costing $$$ to market the tour.

Someday maybe.......but greed would probably **** it up anyway :grin:

 

[Johnnyt]

The WPBA rode on the backs of casino's for most of it's good years. Most of the casino's are not doing well or losing money the last three or more years. All one has to at to see the relationship of the casino's downward spiral and at the same time the slide from 9-10 tournaments a year to 2 for the WPBA is look. The WPBA had a good business plan going for years, but had no back-up plan for "all your eggs in one basket".

IMO the WPBA is finished as we use to know it. Eight to ten tournaments a year paying out over $100,000 each with $15,000 to winner and $8,000 for second are over. The best I can see happening is two big tournaments a year or 12 much smaller ones. Just like the men pros in the US, maybe the top two will make a living of about the same level as a nurse after you deduct the entry, travel, and other things. They are in the same boat as the men now, but even worse really. Top 20-30 men have a chance to win or cash well in tournaments against other men. How maney of the American women have a chance to cash against the 20-30 top men? It's sad, but I believe the WPBA run is over unless some big cosmetic company or the like starts to sponsor them. Johnnyt

 

[Nostroke]

watchez...I have to respectfully disagree with you here. John was in a decision-making position only a few months. Sometimes it takes longer than that to put things together. He had MANY irons in the fire, regarding things getting better for the WPBA. Now none of them will come to fruition...to the detrement of the ladies tour.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hey Scott
If he had real promising irons in the fire, i dont think he'd be gone imo unless he was keeping them secret from the Board Members which is ridiculous in itself.

Kevin Trudeau in the IPT had lots of irons in the fire as did Linda Chan and that NY Advertising Agency the WPBA hired. It was all pie in the sky.

These were all "business people" as was the Galveston group, the Billiard Channel guys and the President of the UPA and many others through the years. When i hear that term, I know it's trouble.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Wpba

Although it is sad the WPBA is having hard times, the comments on the former President (JR) are all over the place.

JR did have many discussions with various business entities - but he never got the support (or necessary information) from several of the key women in WPBA. I feel he was undermined by several of the 'old guard'.

Although he may not function in a manner the women liked, they never gave him a real chance to succeed. Remember, he was elected!

This is all unfortunate because the WPBA and pool in general are the losers.

He never said that Brunswick had taken advantage of the women. He DID say the WPBA would not be taken advantage of (by anyone).

The next sentence mentioned Brunswick - but not in the same thought or context. It was never meant to state that Brunswick had taken advantage of the WPBA.

Brunswick had the first opportunity to provide tables for the WPBA. They made an offer that was not adequate for the WPBA. WPBA contacted Diamond and an acceptable arrangment was made. (Just so you know, Brunswick supported the WPBA for many years - they have the option of changing their business model. Ewa has been a spokesperson for Brunswick for many years and she was aware of the changes in policy).

The WPBA model has been heading for problems for several years. It just caught up with them. But they need to learn that they ARE a business - and need to be run like one.

There are also solutions.

I wish them the best - even though they (and some of their sponsors) have shown they are not interested in what I have to say.

That is unfortunate because there are some that just want to promote pool and 'to hell with the politics' - but the powers that be will not allow that to happen.

The pool world is too small - it needs everyone to push and pull in the same general direction - but often times everyone is working against each other.

The end result seems to be confusion and eventual failure.

Just my .02 -----FWIW

Mark Griffin

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

JR did have many discussions with various business entities - but he never got the support (or necessary information) from several of the key women in WPBA. I feel he was undermined by several of the 'old guard'.

The WPBA model has been heading for problems for several years. It just caught up with them. But they need to learn that they ARE a business - and need to be run like one.

I mentioned this in another thread but I think it's well worth repeating here:
"The WPBA could benefit from having new blood on the board of directors, especially those who may have a business-related background. Although the pool players on the board mean well, it does take a certain amount of sophistication to run the WPBA as a business and not just as a sport."

 

[bfdlad]

The pool biz is having a real hard time of it right now. I know this from my own personal experiences. There are a number of different reasons for the struggles that the industry is having. However in these times its easy to try to point a finger and play the blame game. The truth is its just really hard out there and things are not going to happen overnight. I think that JR should have been given more of a chance to make things happen and have the full support of all concerned.

I am sure whoever gets the job next will find it just as hard to make things happen. I only know certain parts from John's side of things I believe he had some things ready to pop but I guess we will never know how they would have worked out now.

John if the WPBA don't want your help I am sure the men would love to have some of the sponsorship you could help with.

This is really crazy, I'm not talking about JR I am just talking about the Pool biz in general. It seems that as a group we can never seem to agree on anything and there seems to be alot of infighting. Maybe this is why the industry is in the place it is right now. Its just a shame.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

He never said that Brunswick had taken advantage of the women. He DID say the WPBA would not be taken advantage of (by anyone).

The next sentence mentioned Brunswick - but not in the same thought or context. It was never meant to state that Brunswick had taken advantage of the WPBA.

Mark Griffin

So are you saying that he made a mistake and said something that he didn't mean to?

If that is the case, kindly restate exactly what was said and how you think it was misinterpreted by the players and Ewa.

This is what you are suggesting, correct?

 

[sunnyday]

So are you saying that he made a mistake and said something that he didn't mean to?

If that is the case, kindly restate exactly what was said and how you think it was misinterpreted by the players and Ewa.

This is what you are suggesting, correct?

Here is the thing.

JR had prepared a power point slide about his plan, projects and changes he was going to bring to WPBA. He asked a certain board member to have a projector set up. Because from his years of business experience, he knows that people only hear what they want to hear and only retain 5% (at best) of what they hear.

When he showed up for the meeting to deliver his speech, no prep was done so he had to deliver the speech from memory and people heard what they wanted to hear.

It is sad, that he was not supported even for the simplest request of having projector for his speech.

S.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

That still doesn't answer the question of what exactly was said, and how it could be misinterpreted by so many.
(That is IF it was misinterpreted)

That just defends J.R. without repeating the words.

 

[sunnyday]

I don't feel I need to defend anything JR said. I wasn't there, so I can't tell you word by word what was said.

But from hear it from few people who were there "I feel" it was Ewa against JR. Probably not happy about JR choosing Diamond tables over Brunswick - only because Diamond offered more for WPBA at the time. It wasn't a personal decision but for the better of WPBA. Maybe someone didn't see it that way.

What people don't seem to realize is that when JR was elected as WPBA's President, tour was already slumped to it's worst condition. Sure he didn't point out the problems wrapped in a pink bow and I think it irked previous board members when he pointed out matter of factly what mistakes were not to be repeated. Some people took it personal and maybe, that is why several board members stepped down.

I agree too that JR stepping down was a loss to WPBA, he offered changes and they didn't want it. But it is done and they need to go forward best as they can. I wish them the best.

S.

 

[Majic]

I don't feel I need to defend anything JR said. I wasn't there, so I can't tell you word by word what was said.

But from hear it from few people who were there "I feel" it was Ewa against JR. Probably not happy about JR choosing Diamond tables over Brunswick - only because Diamond offered more for WPBA at the time. It wasn't a personal decision but for the better of WPBA. Maybe someone didn't see it that way.

What people don't seem to realize is that when JR was elected as WPBA's President, tour was already slumped to it's worst condition. Sure he didn't point out the problems wrapped in a pink bow and I think it irked previous board members when he pointed out matter of factly what mistakes were not to be repeated. Some people took it personal and maybe, that is why several board members stepped down.

I agree too that JR stepping down was a loss to WPBA, he offered changes and they didn't want it. But it is done and they need to go forward best as they can. I wish them the best.

S.

It would be nice if the minutes of the meeting were published. That would eliminate most of the conjecture.

I really don't understand how "they" whoever they are, didn't know who they elected. What kind of election process due THEY use. Certainly Mr. JR had to present his agenda prior to an election or was he the only person wanting the job

I really hope some form of professional pool emerges from the embers of this mess, and I wish THEM luck.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I don't feel I need to defend anything JR said. I wasn't there, so I can't tell you word by word what was said.

But from hear it from few people who were there "I feel" it was Ewa against JR. Probably not happy about JR choosing Diamond tables over Brunswick - only because Diamond offered more for WPBA at the time. It wasn't a personal decision but for the better of WPBA. Maybe someone didn't see it that way.

What people don't seem to realize is that when JR was elected as WPBA's President, tour was already slumped to it's worst condition. Sure he didn't point out the problems wrapped in a pink bow and I think it irked previous board members when he pointed out matter of factly what mistakes were not to be repeated. Some people took it personal and maybe, that is why several board members stepped down.

I agree too that JR stepping down was a loss to WPBA, he offered changes and they didn't want it. But it is done and they need to go forward best as they can. I wish them the best.

S.

I am not really concerned with the state of the WPBA when J.R. showed up.

I am not concerned with the job he did or didn't do.
I am specifically concerned with the statements about Brunswick that led to the Ewa meltdown.
And lets be honest. Even the WPBA is not immune to a little spin on what was actually said in that meeting. That much is obvious when you take the 2 polar opposite viewpoints on what happened.

But here is some food for thought.
The elites wanted to change it so that it was a top 16 tour (do you even know about this?), and J.R. was on their side.
If you don't know about this, then your sources aren't telling you the whole story.

With that in mind, if you heard it from anyone who was in that allegiance who befriended J.R., then it is perfectly possible that they might not be telling you what actually happened. But instead, spinning it so that you see things their way. Obviously, they don't want to look like the bad guy.

But i'd be willing to bet that if you did a survey of what went down, and then looked at the Ranking of each female responding, that you would instantly understand the rift that exists.

As such, Mark made very specific statements regarding the Brunswick statement despite him not being there. And seeing as he was not at the meeting, and neither was i, it is a he said she said situation.

Surely he can clarify exactly what he meant.