African American pool pros

jay helfert said:
Do you remember Broadway Billiards? I think it was also downstairs and had a similar crowd to McGirrs. Full of hustlers and scufflers and various low lifes. Naturally I loved it, and couldn't wait to get in action. It rarely took me five minutes to get a game in these places.


Hey Jay.........Broadway Billiards is still there, and still semi-seedy....I was there three years ago and played a few guys some one pocket - including 'Slim Carney' - Slim's a nice guy and I liked his pool room style: The velvet soft con...^_^........Also they've got two of the tightest tables you'll ever play on there, tighter than your table - I'd guesstimate them to be 3 and 7/8ths"..........Ghost
 
bola sete

TX Poolnut said:
Seven ball, corner pocket. If Bola Sete had chosen cue stick over guitar there�s little doubt he would have brought similar agility and acumen to the game of billiards. Luckily for listeners across the globe he chose the latter instrument as his means of expression. Particulars on Sete�s colorful career are recounted elsewhere�his Bohemian youth spent in Rio as well as his place at the ground floor of the bossa nova explosion and his narrow miss at beating the team of Getz and Gilberto with an American debut of the form.


Fantasy couples two albums on this recent compilation gathering material from three sessions. The umbrella title could easily pass for a Martin Denny or Les Baxter platter, but rest assured the music here is firmly ensconced in light and eminently listenable '60s samba sound. The first ten tracks, originally issued as The Incomparable Bola Sete , intersperse tunes recorded in San Francisco and L.A. On the former the acoustic guitarist hooks up with studio percussionist Johnny Rae. Each man overdubs an extra element to the music (Sete shoulders bass guitar and Rae weaves in a second rhythmic line) and the end result is a surprisingly smooth fusion of snaking beats and lilting chords. The second session weds Sete�s strings to a solid if slightly checkered West Coast jazz team for another clutch of light and airy bossas. Paul Horn�s flute is a bit anemic in spots, but Budwig�s athletic bass lines compensate and a nimble solo on �Waltz of the City� boosts the tune�s stock considerably. Nick Martinez�s traps are competent if largely unremarkable despite some delicate brush play.


The final nine tunes come from Autentico! ; roll the calendar forward sixteen months. They find Sete fronting a fresh working trio with countrymen Neto and Paulinho on bass and percussion respectively. The liners describe the pair as minor legends in Brazilian music and their supple support of Sete�s filigree picking and strumming substantiates the claim. Continuity in personnel between tracks and the tight affinity the three men audibly share makes for more a more cohesive listening experience. Sete draws on the surroundings to flavor his fretwork with clever and subtle deviations in rhythm and melody, even switching to amplified strings for a few numbers like the boogaloo-driven �Baion Blues.� This music is ideal for summer veranda listening, well-iced mojito in hand with bright-sun beaming down over a coastal ocean view. And to keep the pool analogy rolling, consider this particular ball a sure sink with plenty of natural English.

Track listing: Bolido/ Lamento de Negro/ Influ�ncia do Jazz/ Voodoo Village/ Sarav�/ Be-Bossa/ Waltz of the City/ Just Another Love/ The Girl From Lodi/ Original Joe�s/ Brejeiro/ Consola�o/ Quindim de Yaya/ Soul Samba/ Baion Blues/ Pau de Arara/ Coisa/ Odeon/ Mulher Rendeira.

Personnel: Bola Sete- guitar, bass guitar; Johnny Rae- percussion; Paul Horn- flute; Monty Budwig- bass; Nick Martinez- drums; Sebasti�o Neto- bass; Paulinho- percussion. Recorded: November 12 & December 16, 1964 and May 3, 1966.
Not sure what this post is doing here, but thanks for the heads up. I picked up Autentico and loved it.:)
 
More on Andy Hudson

jay helfert said:
My buddy Tim Thompson told me many stories about Andy Hudson, who mentored him.

Love to hear some of those stories, Jay.

First time I laid eyes on Andy, I was a bit taken aback. Somehow I had expected a big, fierce black man in the mold of Sonny Liston, who happened to live in Denver at that time.

Anyway, Andy was a skinny guy, average height, who didn't look the least bit fearsome. He didn't walk so much as he shuffled. He didn't talk so much as he muttered. But, oh, that stroke. As long and silky smooth as any stroke I've ever seen. Fred Morrow wrote an entire article about the Hudson stroke in the Rocky Mountain News sometime in the late '70s. Wish I had saved it.

I remember one scene from the Family Fun Center when Andy was playing Bill Stroud, with a spot from Stroud, as I recall. Stroud became furious over some real or perceived insult, and he began firing balls around the pool room -- not aiming at anyone in the Bucktooth manner but bouncing the balls off the slate.

When the house man intervened, Andy pleaded, "You can't bar him outa here -- I got him stuck for two large!" Stroud cooled down and the game went on. Stroud was living in Aspen in those days; otherwise he'd have been considered best in town. As it was, Andy held that title for a good long time.

9BP
 
I just read this entire thread and right away I can think of two African American players who were at one time right at the top of the game. At the "Rack" in Oak Park, Michigan in it's hey day there were many great black players. Marvin Henderson comes to mind. I think when he was sober he may have been a contender for the best all around player in the world. Another was Edgar "Shake and Bake" White. I can remember congratulating him on a big tournament win in 9 Ball but I don't know which one. He couldn't get a game even up from anyone for a brief period after that win IIRC.

In Bob Henning's book on Cornbread Red, he mentions several groups of gamblers at the Rack. I remember the Jewish Millionaires group and the Black Gamblers group especially. I remember they really all turned out to bet when Marvin or Bugs had a match. There were other African American players there too. Maybe someone else who was there will chime in, or I'll edit this later...Tom
 
1975 US OPEN / Cisero Murphy

Borrowed this post from Bob Jewett.

1975 U.S. OPEN QUALIFERS Men's Division

Standing..........Player............Average Balls.... Prize
....................................Per Inning........Money

1................ Dallas West...... 8.19..............$10,000
2................ Pete Margo........8.86..............5,000
3................ Steve Mizerak.... 15.26............ 2,200
4................ Ray Martin........6.66..............2,000
5................ Allan Hopkins.... 7.26..............1,400
6................ Irving Crane......4.88..............1,400
7................ Lou Butera........10.40............ 1,000
8................ Luther Lassiter.. 5.64..............1,000
9................ Mark Beilfuss.... 9.75..............700
10............... Dan Louie........ 7.77..............700
11............... Dick Lane........ 7.06..............700
12............... Steve Cook........7.28..............700
13............... Joe Balsis........9.67..............500
14............... Jim Rempe........ 7.82..............500
15............... Richie Florence.. 7.51..............500
16............... Herb Lehman...... 5.01..............500
17............... Pat Fleming...... 7.73..............300
18............... Paul Schofield....7.41..............300
19............... Ernie Lager...... 6.21..............300
20............... Masaru Hanatani.. 5.73..............300
21............... Roger Boucher.... 5.43..............300
22............... Bob Vanover...... 4.33..............300
23............... Jack Colavita.... 4.29..............300
24............... Larry Lisciotti.. 3.69..............300
25............... Tom Spencer...... 6.86..............200
26............... Max Klindtwort....6.43..............200
27............... Tom Jennings......6.28..............200
28............... Cisero Murphy.... 5.26..............200
29............... Ernie Costa...... 4.69..............200
30............... John Duclos...... 3.80..............200
31............... Robert Jewett.... 2.97..............200
32............... Udo Moers........ 1.26..............200
__________________
Bob Jewett
 
jimmyg said:
Borrowed this post from Bob Jewett.

1975 U.S. OPEN QUALIFERS Men's Division

Standing..........Player............Average Balls.... Prize
....................................Per Inning........Money

1................ Dallas West...... 8.19..............$10,000
2................ Pete Margo........8.86..............5,000
3................ Steve Mizerak.... 15.26............ 2,200
4................ Ray Martin........6.66..............2,000
5................ Allan Hopkins.... 7.26..............1,400
6................ Irving Crane......4.88..............1,400
7................ Lou Butera........10.40............ 1,000
8................ Luther Lassiter.. 5.64..............1,000
9................ Mark Beilfuss.... 9.75..............700
10............... Dan Louie........ 7.77..............700
11............... Dick Lane........ 7.06..............700
12............... Steve Cook........7.28..............700
13............... Joe Balsis........9.67..............500
14............... Jim Rempe........ 7.82..............500
15............... Richie Florence.. 7.51..............500
16............... Herb Lehman...... 5.01..............500
17............... Pat Fleming...... 7.73..............300
18............... Paul Schofield....7.41..............300
19............... Ernie Lager...... 6.21..............300
20............... Masaru Hanatani.. 5.73..............300
21............... Roger Boucher.... 5.43..............300
22............... Bob Vanover...... 4.33..............300
23............... Jack Colavita.... 4.29..............300
24............... Larry Lisciotti.. 3.69..............300
25............... Tom Spencer...... 6.86..............200
26............... Max Klindtwort....6.43..............200
27............... Tom Jennings......6.28..............200
28............... Cisero Murphy.... 5.26..............200
29............... Ernie Costa...... 4.69..............200
30............... John Duclos...... 3.80..............200
31............... Robert Jewett.... 2.97..............200
32............... Udo Moers........ 1.26..............200
__________________
Bob Jewett


Over 30 years ago and First Prize was $10,000. That was MONEY back then! The same thing they are playing for today. Sad huh?
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
Hey Jay.........Broadway Billiards is still there, and still semi-seedy....I was there three years ago and played a few guys some one pocket - including 'Slim Carney' - Slim's a nice guy and I liked his pool room style: The velvet soft con...^_^........Also they've got two of the tightest tables you'll ever play on there, tighter than your table - I'd guesstimate them to be 3 and 7/8ths"..........Ghost


Those tables are tight. but skyline in brooklyn has the tightest table in new york now.
 
Jaffar Basheer aka Patcheye still plays pretty good at about 80 years old he remembered what a great player George Rood was when I got to talk to him. I remember Cannonball and Rotation Slim and James Evans coming to play Kenny McCoy in Columbus in the late 60s and early 70s and I played pool and gambled a lot at the Broad Olympic which was all black. I never had an issue with anyone there and I weighed 120 pounds soaking wet.
 
Jaffar Basheer aka Patcheye still plays pretty good at about 80 years old he remembered what a great player George Rood was when I got to talk to him. I remember Cannonball and Rotation Slim and James Evans coming to play Kenny McCoy in Columbus in the late 60s and early 70s and I played pool and gambled a lot at the Broad Olympic which was all black. I never had an issue with anyone there and I weighed 120 pounds soaking wet.

i wouldn't think you'd be more likely to run into problems just because the room was an all black pool hall. if anything you'd be less likely to run into trouble. nobody would want the fuzz coming around
 
jay,are you sure....

He has a full time job, plays on weekends.
jay i would love to bet on some of your statements that you make.no disrespect but i might become a weathy man...................we love you anyway jay.hahahahahaha
 
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jay i would love to bet on some of your statements that you make.no disrespect but i might become a weathy man...................we love you anyway jay.hahahahahaha

Considering he posted that on 04-08-2007, things may have changed in the past 3 years. Just saying.
 
jay i would love to bet on some of your statements that you make.no disrespect but i might become a weathy man...................we love you anyway jay.hahahahahaha

He's just stirrin' it up. My experience with African Americans was somewhat limited growing up in the white sw suburbs of chicago, with the dreaded players I used to hear about in downtown chicago, I knew better and stayed away as a kid. My 1st experience was seeing Cisero Murphy in Johnston City late 60s, any others of color seemed more of the hustler type. Visited E. St. Louis a few times 60's, hustled pool in a all black pool room/won, lucky to leave with the dough, should never of gone in this particular room, wasn't safe. Been in a few others in the south, never had a problem, but when you walked in, action was at your finger tips, like Jay says "in the Phillipines", there's always someone who "can play". Gabby stood alone as a pure gentleman to gamble with along with Willie Munson. Gabby and I played often during my 5 yr stay in S. Cal, he had couple two or three guys he hung with (backers) and they were as nice as gabby and most always smiling/except when they left. I've found the african americans back in the 60's and 70's in general (8 out of 10) to be very difficult to play, I figure it's because of where they learned their trade and their style, and it was their way of doing business that turned me off in general. As far as todays group of great african/americans in the states, lets say in their 20's-40's haven't heard of many, Cl.J. is about it for top end play from what I've seen online, there seems to be more Hispanic greats than A/Am.
 
More on Andy Hudson, Denver

Independent Event

Andy Hudson
Andy Hudson Passes Away at 86 - An Icon Pool Player from Colorado

Andrew K. Hudson was the first of five children born to Dennis Leroy and Alice Payne Hudson in Denver, CO on October 2, 1920. Andrew married his high school sweetheart Electra in 1938. Andy was known as the “golden boy” of Colorado as described by John Rayburn, former Channel 9 news commentator, when it came time to play a game of 9-ball, Andy was a pool shark! Those who knew Andy knew of this passion. He began teaching pocket billiards in 1974 at the Physical Education Department of Metro State College. With this position, he innovated the game of pool for many students opening up the game to woman, which used to be a man’s game. He also introduced and instructed pocket billiards to players at the Family Fun Center, and introduced the game as a family sport. Andy was a member of the Commerce City Recreation Center. He always took first place in pocket billiards at the Colorado Senior Games. Andy was also an avid golfer and bowler.

Andy was passionate about many community causes and would give his time to help in anyway he could. He was a Teachers Assistant for Reading at the 24th Street School. He was his Swinging 30’s Class Treasurer. Andy was a member of the Park Hill Leisure Club. As a devout Catholic, he was a dedicated member of St. Ignatius Loyola Catholic Church, devoted to assisting his brothers and sisters in Christ, ready to give spiritual guidance when needed. He loved the Lord. Andy was a devoted husband, father, father-in-law, grandfather, great grandfather, a good neighbor, and an all around great human being. He was an avid reader. He was a polished gentleman and was much loved by our community. Andy had “never met a stranger.”

In April of 1988 in the Colorado Billiards News, Jonesy wrote:
In the last month I had the privilege to interview one of Colorado’s top players. For over, four decades, the name “Andy Hudson” has struck fear in the heart of pool players all over America. Born in Denver 67 years ago, and Andy has been playing pool for over 50 years and is nothing short of a true gentleman. He is also one of the nicest people you could ever meet and one of the most knowledgeable players I have ever seen play. Denver should be proud to say that Andy is a “home grown son.” Thanks Andy, for all the thrills….Your a true champ.

Andy’s favorite game was one-pocket, his favorite place to play was The Family Fun Center, he practiced three hours a day – five days a week, he played pool with a hustler cue, and was asked in this interview what is the biggest mistake that amateurs make playing pool? Andy’s answer: “They don’t keep their eye on the object ball”- you can take that advice to the bank!

For some of you players that did not get the honor to meet Andy- stop by Hank’s Billiards (formally know as Paradise Billiards or The Family Fun Center) and ask any of the veterans and they will only have great stories of Andy Hudson. When I was 24 years old I was blessed to play Andy everyday at the same time at the same place “The Family Fun Center.” I have to say I learned a lot from playing Andy- I would miss him dearly. He was an ICON to pool and Colorado! God bless Andy!

By Melissa Little - 2007-10-25

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?id=4773
 
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I can state with unequivocal certainty that no person or group has the right to determine how other people define or call themselves or how they wish to be called, and you are certainly no exception. Although you obviously have no say in the matter, I am writing, in the interests of promoting a sense of community and mutual understanding, to clarify a few points regarding your post.

First, I believe that you may be laboring under a misconception as to the provenance of the term "African-American". Whatever your feelings about Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton (and I will not discuss that here), you may be certain that the term neither originates with or owes its current use to either of these two gentlemen. You may go back over two centuries to gentlemen like Prince Hall, to the 19th century Martin Delany, and to numerous luminary figures and movements throughout the African-American sojourn on this continent. Identification with the ancestral homeland of Africa has always been a powerful current in the social, cultural and intellectual development of "Black" America, and the largest organization of "Black" people ever built in the modern era was Marcus Garvey's UNIA, whose entire philosophy was rooted in identification with the African continent. As such, leave Al and Jesse out of this--this issue is bigger than any of them, or any of us.

To address your issue on its merits, I submit that your argument has no basis whatsoever, inasmuch as the term "African-American" explicitly affirms Americanness. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that you can recall countless times that you have referred to people as Irish or Irish-American, or Asian or Asian-American; when in fact they may never have seen the land of their ancestral origin. The term African-American is no different. It simply denotes a particular population group within the American social and political fabric by its historical, cultural and ethnic background rather than on color or race.

In terms of the discourse among public intellectuals who often exert profound influence on public debate and usage, the term African-American, in fact, partly owes its current popularity to a paradigm which challenges the validity of a biological concept of "race". What does race mean as a biological concept in America, for example, when the vast majority of "blacks" have "white" ancestors and the majority of "whites" have "black" ancestors within the last 10 generations? (Yes, that is a fact! Look it up!) As such, terms such as African-American, European-American or Asian-American attepmt to denote various groups in our society on the basis of their group historical and cultural experience rather than on genotype, and it reaffirms that each group is, in fact, American. What is divisive about that? Does the sucess of democracy and equality depend on everyone being the same? Who would determine what that sameness should look like? Would you give up, for meager example, popcorn, the blues, pizza, barbecue, bagels and lox, and pilsner beer (all "American" favorites that are the product of particular ethnic groups) in pursuit of this sameness?

Rather than a melting pot, the better analogy for a multicultural America may be a pungent multi-ingredient stew or paella, in which each of the ingredients lend their own unique flavors to create a whole dish without being boiled down into a gelatinous indistiguishable mass. In the final analysis, ethnic divisiveness will not be resolved by eliminating and submlimating our differences, but by learning to accept and appreciate them. Good day to you sir!

Rudy Krigger, Jr.
A proud African-American

That was deep lol
:thumbup:
 
Independent Event

Andy Hudson
Andy Hudson Passes Away at 86 - An Icon Pool Player from Colorado

Andrew K. Hudson was the first of five children born to Dennis Leroy and Alice Payne Hudson in Denver, CO on October 2, 1920. Andrew married his high school sweetheart Electra in 1938. Andy was known as the “golden boy” of Colorado as described by John Rayburn, former Channel 9 news commentator, when it came time to play a game of 9-ball, Andy was a pool shark! Those who knew Andy knew of this passion. He began teaching pocket billiards in 1974 at the Physical Education Department of Metro State College. With this position, he innovated the game of pool for many students opening up the game to woman, which used to be a man’s game. He also introduced and instructed pocket billiards to players at the Family Fun Center, and introduced the game as a family sport. Andy was a member of the Commerce City Recreation Center. He always took first place in pocket billiards at the Colorado Senior Games. Andy was also an avid golfer and bowler.

Andy was passionate about many community causes and would give his time to help in anyway he could. He was a Teachers Assistant for Reading at the 24th Street School. He was his Swinging 30’s Class Treasurer. Andy was a member of the Park Hill Leisure Club. As a devout Catholic, he was a dedicated member of St. Ignatius Loyola Catholic Church, devoted to assisting his brothers and sisters in Christ, ready to give spiritual guidance when needed. He loved the Lord. Andy was a devoted husband, father, father-in-law, grandfather, great grandfather, a good neighbor, and an all around great human being. He was an avid reader. He was a polished gentleman and was much loved by our community. Andy had “never met a stranger.”

In April of 1988 in the Colorado Billiards News, Jonesy wrote:
In the last month I had the privilege to interview one of Colorado’s top players. For over, four decades, the name “Andy Hudson” has struck fear in the heart of pool players all over America. Born in Denver 67 years ago, and Andy has been playing pool for over 50 years and is nothing short of a true gentleman. He is also one of the nicest people you could ever meet and one of the most knowledgeable players I have ever seen play. Denver should be proud to say that Andy is a “home grown son.” Thanks Andy, for all the thrills….Your a true champ.

Andy’s favorite game was one-pocket, his favorite place to play was The Family Fun Center, he practiced three hours a day – five days a week, he played pool with a hustler cue, and was asked in this interview what is the biggest mistake that amateurs make playing pool? Andy’s answer: “They don’t keep their eye on the object ball”- you can take that advice to the bank!

For some of you players that did not get the honor to meet Andy- stop by Hank’s Billiards (formally know as Paradise Billiards or The Family Fun Center) and ask any of the veterans and they will only have great stories of Andy Hudson. When I was 24 years old I was blessed to play Andy everyday at the same time at the same place “The Family Fun Center.” I have to say I learned a lot from playing Andy- I would miss him dearly. He was an ICON to pool and Colorado! God bless Andy!

By Melissa Little - 2007-10-25

Nice post, he did stand alone in the pool room, like Minnesota Fats yet quiet. Always dressed as a gentleman, and was a Gentle Man. People like him are the seed for great rooms, and if your lucky enough to have a man like this in you life, your a better person and pool rooms are a tough place to grow up, similar to Willie Munson, kind/giving man.
 
This is a great topic... I think its worth doing some reasearch and writing an article.

Like womens golf having an Asian influence that pretty much has taken over the top 5 rankings, there are no, or very few Afro-American women that play in that tour.

Is Billiards primarily a white american, white Euro, and Asian sport? I will see what I can find.

Argonath
 
During my pool playing days in Denver -- the '60s -- a black dude named Andy Hudson was widely regarded as best in town. I watched him many times at the old Family Fun Center on West 38th Avenue. He was past his prime by then, but still capable of packaging some run-outs in nineball. Haven't heard of him or seen him in 40 years, however.


9BP

Any was a great player and a great guy. He played all games too and played them well.
Andy died I think last year. he was a good man!
 
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