When do you start thinking defensively?

Wheeljack

Wheeljack

You Know It!
Silver Member
Hi everyone,

So, this has been on my mind a bit since last week when I suggested to a player on my league team to try to play more defensively in his match. My actual advice was that if he did not feel he had a 70%, or greater, chance at making the shot and getting position then he should really think about more defensive options.

Now, I feel my words were lost because I gave this advice to someone who never really thinks defensively. He's an APA SL4 (9ball) and has been for years and will be for years to come, not that there is anything wrong with that...

So, if you are in a match where your opponent is about the same skill level as you and the game is close then when do you start thinking defensively about your shot selection?

Thanks in advance for your input-

J.
 
Wheeljack said:
So, if you are in a match where your opponent is about the same skill level as you and the game is close then when do you start thinking defensively about your shot selection? ALWAYS!!!

Thanks in advance for your input-

J.
Click to expand...

If you can't find the runout, you should be thinking defensively.
 
I need to start thinking defensively a lot more than I do now. I play on two teams and I am a skill level or two lower than some of the guys on my team. I can shoot and play position better than these guys but they play defense a lot more often, while I don't.

I lost my 8 ball match on Monday because of this and my attitude towards defense has officially changed. From now on I will think of playing defense when I don't have a high percentage shot.
 
When I'm at the table and it doesn't look like I can get out, I start looking for the best spot to play safe with whats left on the table.
 
After the break depending on the lay of balls. Sometimes there is a decent break out there, other times it might be a kamikaze move to try and run out if the balls arent laying too good. Same thought process, sometimes if there is a break out, but you are not on the right path to get to it... play safe.
All of this is subjective to a players skill level, the opponents skill level etc. Sometimes if you are just hitting balls with a friend, its fun to go for the run out no matter what.
Chuck
 
I always started thinking defensively when I was playing a set with no money in my pocket! How am I going to defend myself when this guy finds out I fired an air barrel at him.
 
Jeremy...I think you gave him very sound advice. That high percentage "feeling" is likely to come from his comfort level, or lack thereof, in the confidence in his stroke. Knowing what to do, and how to do it, are dependent on striking the CB accurately, especially under pressure.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Wheeljack said:
Hi everyone,

So, this has been on my mind a bit since last week when I suggested to a player on my league team to try to play more defensively in his match. My actual advice was that if he did not feel he had a 70%, or greater, chance at making the shot and getting position then he should really think about more defensive options.

J.
Click to expand...
 
IMO, you can have success in pool by playing the percentages. If you are faced with a medium to low percentage shot but you have the chance to pull off a high percentage safety, go with the safety. Don't force a hard shot if you have a very good chance at locking your opponent up. If you feel like you can make the shot, by all means shoot it if you can get onto your next ball. If the safety and the shot are about the same difficulty, go with the shot. If you have a hard shot, but a harder safety, go for the hard shot. Am I making any sense???

Play the percentages!!!

Maniac
 
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I usually only play safe.......when I want to win. Don't forget that safety play can also be used to slow your opponent down. Sometimes when I can tell the match is going to be a battle, I put a couple nice safeties on my opponent just to cool his stroke down a bit.:grin-devilish:
 
Wheeljack said:
Hi everyone,

So, this has been on my mind a bit since last week when I suggested to a player on my league team to try to play more defensively in his match. My actual advice was that if he did not feel he had a 70%, or greater, chance at making the shot and getting position then he should really think about more defensive options.

Now, I feel my words were lost because I gave this advice to someone who never really thinks defensively. He's an APA SL4 (9ball) and has been for years and will be for years to come, not that there is anything wrong with that...

So, if you are in a match where your opponent is about the same skill level as you and the game is close then when do you start thinking defensively about your shot selection?

Thanks in advance for your input-

J.
Click to expand...

The more adept a player becomes, the less they will have to play safe, but the more often they will consider it.

Chris
 
Wheeljack said:
Hi everyone,

So, this has been on my mind a bit since last week when I suggested to a player on my league team to try to play more defensively in his match. My actual advice was that if he did not feel he had a 70%, or greater, chance at making the shot and getting position then he should really think about more defensive options.

Now, I feel my words were lost because I gave this advice to someone who never really thinks defensively. He's an APA SL4 (9ball) and has been for years and will be for years to come, not that there is anything wrong with that...

So, if you are in a match where your opponent is about the same skill level as you and the game is close then when do you start thinking defensively about your shot selection?

Thanks in advance for your input-

J.
Click to expand...

Honestly, if I'm playing someone who goes for everything they see no matter how low percentage, I know i'll beat them. I'll play safes that leave them ridiculously difficult cuts or banks and I know they will sell out. They may pull the shot off once in a while, but the sell outs don't make up for it.

Chris
 
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Wheeljack said:
So, if you are in a match where your opponent is about the same skill level as you and the game is close then when do you start thinking defensively about your shot selection?
Click to expand...

Short answer: the first inning of every game. If possible, every shot should be a shot/safety.

Long answer: Continuously since about 1994. I'd play snooker on a 10' table with a Thai dude who was used to playing on a 12' table. He could make shots from about anywhere on the table, so the key was to never leave a shot, if possible. I think I still lost nearly all the time, but I got a lot better at safeties.

The combination offense/defense approached is summarized quite well in The Eight Ball Bible: A Guide to Bar Table Play by R. Givens. He evens signs the book "Shot-Safety Forever!". The book's available from Freddy the Beard's site. Buy it from Freddy.

http://bankingwiththebeard.com/?p=245

Consider playing one-pocket to sharpen your skills at playing defensive shots that are also offensive.

Imagine your opponent has only one ball left on the table, and on your turn you freeze the cueball to your opponent's ball. Not just an interesting shot, but potentially hilarious.
 
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Safe

Now I don't know and don't want to know much about APA but lots of leagues reward points for everyball removed even when losing. Anytime you can string balls together do it, your scoring points. However you must SEE when that run is ending and duck out with some defense. Don't go to one ball hell. Some folks don't like defense and of course you should torture them every chance you get. Defense slows down momentum players. I love to run out as we all do. But I also really love a long game. Who wins the defensive battle? Offense or defense, you can't win the start of a game or the middle, you only win the end of the game. Escalate your defense at the end. We have a fellow down south here who must have been a sheep herder in another life. He herds his opp. balls into clusters, doesn't even start shooting his ducks until he has done some herding first. It's a hoot to watch. I am slowly trying to hone my own herding instincts. Now your opp must start breaking up clusters. There are only 7 balls, so you only have to herd 3 times(2 balls per small herd). Herding is defense at the highest level.
 
Mr. Wiggles said:
Now I don't know and don't want to know much about APA but lots of leagues reward points for everyball removed even when losing.

Anytime you can string balls together do it, your scoring points. However you must SEE when that run is ending and duck out with some defense. Don't go to one ball hell.

Some folks don't like defense and of course you should torture them every chance you get. Defense slows down momentum players. I love to run out as we all do.

But I also really love a long game. Who wins the defensive battle? Offense or defense, you can't win the start of a game or the middle, you only win the end of the game.

Escalate your defense at the end. We have a fellow down south here who must have been a sheep herder in another life. He herds his opp. balls into clusters, doesn't even start shooting his ducks until he has done some herding first.

It's a hoot to watch. I am slowly trying to hone my own herding instincts. Now your opp must start breaking up clusters. There are only 7 balls, so you only have to herd 3 times(2 balls per small herd). Herding is defense at the highest level.
Click to expand...

Spaced for easy reading. how hard was that.

As far as leagues go, you get the most points for a win. you can win by running out or playing safe untill you are able to run out. Both ways you get a 10. (if that's how your league works)
 
Like Maniac said, it's all about the percentages. Doesn't really matter who I'm playing or what exactly I'm faced with. If I feel I have a better chance to win a game playing safe on a particular shot then I'm going to play safe.
 
i guess it depends on the context. if ur opponent can't run out if u miss ur attempt, then id normally go for a difficult shot. if the layout is horrible, i would be looking into running the rack until the problem ball or a ball before to try to get a ball in hand to remove the cluster. but it really depends on who u are playing with. sometimes u have to take ur chances if u are playing someone much better, but in general id agree with playing safety if u dont have a 70% chance of making the shot and playnig position, however, if the table layout is difficult, i would go ahead and shoot it anyways
 
supergreenman said:
Spaced for easy reading. how hard was that.

As far as leagues go, you get the most points for a win. you can win by running out or playing safe untill you are able to run out. Both ways you get a 10. (if that's how your league works)
Click to expand...

Could you please do the one for vincent too. :shocked:

Ray
 
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