I'm not disputing what you say. but i have been watching YouTube videos of Efren and Earl and i've noticed they do both.
DCP
CB or OB last
- Thread starter nksmfamjp
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I'm not disputing what you say. but i have been watching YouTube videos of Efren and Earl and i've noticed they do both.
DCP
I was watching matches the US Open a few weeks ago when my friend Rory said "look! do you see it?" So I watched Mike Sigel shoot a shot or two, and asked him what he was talking about. "Eye pattern."
Sure enough on a number of shots --cue ball last.
wow, imagine that. doesnt Mike know he'll never amount to anything as a player by being one of those CB last guys?
DCP
PocketPoint
Banned
Out of curiosity I just took a look at some videos of Sigel and he was clearly looking at the OB on every shot I could make out.
I didn't see him look at the CB once.
I didn't see him look at the CB once.
I was thinking the same thing and saw the same thing in a video online. I would like to see the video of Sigel looking at the CB last. I wonder if it was just random in the video Mike was talking about. Mike do you have a link to it?
I wasn't looking at a video. I was looking a Mike live at the US Open a few weeks ago. He didn't do it on every shot, but he did it on a number of shots. And they weren't shots like jumping or jacking up or little touch shots. They were shots across the table, like a spot shot.
i don't have to look at the CB to get an accurate hit on it.
It has nothing to do with what your eyes see.
Its what your brain sees
If you have praticed like you should then your stroke would be accurate enough to not have to look at the CB while shooting
its like when your a kid and you have to look at the basket ball while dribbling.
you practice and eventually you get to where you don't need to look at the basket ball anymore.....
you can be amazingly accurate with that basket ball without looking at it
b/h the back, b/t the legs you name it
you want to look at the OB b/c its the RIGHT PICTURE your brain needs, b/c you should be aligned into the shot through the proper place on the CB anyway.
If you give your brain a pic of the CB to focus on then its not focusing on its target point.....the contact point on the OB
thats why as I've stated and this old dude named George Rood used to teach (maybe you've heard of him? RIP george) the praticing delivery with the eyes closed is so strong.
First it helps you to learn to finish the stroke.
Second it gives your brain the correct image to go off of.
Just like when you see a rattle in your mental imagery, YOU GET A RATTLE.
WHY b/c your brain did a gazillion calculations and the shot you saw in your head was you missing the proper contact point, thus causing the shot to be missed.
When you see the video play out mentally and it splits the wicket then you just saw your brain calculate the shot to perfection.
When you close your eyes and "see" the shot ITS NEVER FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF THE CB, ITS THE OB
The jump and masse' are the only two I look @ CB.....the break I look OB just like every other shot.
NOW THIS JUST EXEMPLIFIES MY POINT:
I shoot a little one handed jacked up (I'm no jessie allered, you the man jess)my stroke is not accurate enough b/c I havent practiced it enough......
I'll line it up and take my time but I DO SHOOT BY LOOKING AT THE CB LAST!
Thats solely b/c i can't stroke the cue straight with one hand jacked up in the air.
if someone doesn't understand this layman's explanation or see the logic b/h it then I give up
:frown: lol
It has nothing to do with what your eyes see.
Its what your brain sees
If you have praticed like you should then your stroke would be accurate enough to not have to look at the CB while shooting
its like when your a kid and you have to look at the basket ball while dribbling.
you practice and eventually you get to where you don't need to look at the basket ball anymore.....
you can be amazingly accurate with that basket ball without looking at it
b/h the back, b/t the legs you name it
you want to look at the OB b/c its the RIGHT PICTURE your brain needs, b/c you should be aligned into the shot through the proper place on the CB anyway.
If you give your brain a pic of the CB to focus on then its not focusing on its target point.....the contact point on the OB
thats why as I've stated and this old dude named George Rood used to teach (maybe you've heard of him? RIP george) the praticing delivery with the eyes closed is so strong.
First it helps you to learn to finish the stroke.
Second it gives your brain the correct image to go off of.
Just like when you see a rattle in your mental imagery, YOU GET A RATTLE.
WHY b/c your brain did a gazillion calculations and the shot you saw in your head was you missing the proper contact point, thus causing the shot to be missed.
When you see the video play out mentally and it splits the wicket then you just saw your brain calculate the shot to perfection.
When you close your eyes and "see" the shot ITS NEVER FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF THE CB, ITS THE OB
The jump and masse' are the only two I look @ CB.....the break I look OB just like every other shot.
NOW THIS JUST EXEMPLIFIES MY POINT:
I shoot a little one handed jacked up (I'm no jessie allered, you the man jess)my stroke is not accurate enough b/c I havent practiced it enough......
I'll line it up and take my time but I DO SHOOT BY LOOKING AT THE CB LAST!
Thats solely b/c i can't stroke the cue straight with one hand jacked up in the air.
if someone doesn't understand this layman's explanation or see the logic b/h it then I give up
:frown: lol
This guy is right as well as the guy just above.
People tend to look at the OB last because that's where the cue goes. However, if you're VERY accurate in your alignment and stepping into the shot, the OB shouldn't matter on a center ball hit. If you're sweating where your cue is going, you didn't align correctly.
Truth be told, most people aren't hyper-accurate in their setup which is why looking at the OB last is required.
Since we're imperfect, OB-last is a must for serious pool. Doesn't mean you can't make balls staring at the CB the whole time-- you 100% can --- but you better be perfect in your PSR.
Visualize throwing a spear. Until that spear leaves your hand you are steering it right up until it leaves your hand.
With a cue stick we are just throwing the spear underhand. Until that stroke is finished you can still steer the shot a little. When this is transfered to the cb,ob a little becomes alot.
If you are not looking at the ob you might as well close your eyes.
Try this once. Aim your shot. After you have it aimed for about 5 seconds then shoot the shot with your eyes closed. I used to do this with a friend for $100 a game only we would just hold a piece of cardboard in front of our opponents eyes before he shot after the aiming was done. It really screws up ones aim.
I can't imagine trying to play like that.
When I miss a shot I sometimes realize that I didn't look at the ob last. I didn't see the cb hit the ob. Especially if I'm in a tournament I know i really have to focus to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Like Scott said, some shots it's more important to look at the ob but most of the time if it's possible to look at the ob you better do it or your results might not be what you want.
If your eyes aren't in the right position you can't steer the shot until the end because the eyes can't give the brain the right info to execute the shot correctly.
If a player shoots about the same looking at the object ball last and shoots about the same looking at the cb last I've found that the eyes are not lined up correctly.
With the eye not being lined up correctly makes it harder to align the body up right also.
Like i said, if the eyes are not in the most correct position it might not seem to make a difference how you do it. Wrong info to the brain both ways.
Have a great day Geno........
With a cue stick we are just throwing the spear underhand. Until that stroke is finished you can still steer the shot a little. When this is transfered to the cb,ob a little becomes alot.
If you are not looking at the ob you might as well close your eyes.
Try this once. Aim your shot. After you have it aimed for about 5 seconds then shoot the shot with your eyes closed. I used to do this with a friend for $100 a game only we would just hold a piece of cardboard in front of our opponents eyes before he shot after the aiming was done. It really screws up ones aim.
I can't imagine trying to play like that.
When I miss a shot I sometimes realize that I didn't look at the ob last. I didn't see the cb hit the ob. Especially if I'm in a tournament I know i really have to focus to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Like Scott said, some shots it's more important to look at the ob but most of the time if it's possible to look at the ob you better do it or your results might not be what you want.
If your eyes aren't in the right position you can't steer the shot until the end because the eyes can't give the brain the right info to execute the shot correctly.
If a player shoots about the same looking at the object ball last and shoots about the same looking at the cb last I've found that the eyes are not lined up correctly.
With the eye not being lined up correctly makes it harder to align the body up right also.
Like i said, if the eyes are not in the most correct position it might not seem to make a difference how you do it. Wrong info to the brain both ways.
Have a great day Geno........
Sorry I have to disagree. For every guy who looks at CB last their are 50 who look at OB. Their are chain smokers who life to 100. The data would suggest that the other way will provide you with better odds of getting there.
Oh these two hacks seem to look at OB last... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VNRC0rjZu4&p=01A6B4FD3C06F174&playnext=1&index=1
Nick "I won't make it to 100" B
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At large...Ooops! LOL Yes, I meant OB last on most shots...and yes, I played and taught CB last for more than 10 years (and yes, played quite well). It can work both ways, but science prevails on OB last.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
"So for OB last folks, I do have 1 question. . .What are you looking at or keeping by viewing it last?"
The target. I'm looking at my target... what I'm shooting at. If I was shootin a rifle I'd be looking down the barrel at the target. I'm looking at what I want to hit.
The target. I'm looking at my target... what I'm shooting at. If I was shootin a rifle I'd be looking down the barrel at the target. I'm looking at what I want to hit.
Learning to cut balls is through memory. I think the important reason to look at the object ball last is to see when the cb hits the ob. When you pocket or miss a shot that picture of the cb contacting the ob sticks in your mind. You then start remembering that picture and start your recall, telling your brain when a shot looks right, or doesn't look right. Looking at the cb last would force you to somewhat jerk your eyes up to see the hit. IOW, looking at the ob last develops your memory. IMHO, of course.
I will never forget something Craig Stevens said years and years ago.
He said,"I never saw a good player who didn't do two things. First he stays down on every single shot, and secondly, he always follows through with his eyes."
I was a young wanna be and wanted it badly and thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, so finally I asked, "What do yo mean follow through with your eyes"?
"Always watch and follow the object ball to the pocket, if you don't make the ball, you are supposed to lose the game."
FWIW, he was i have always believed as good and maybe the best at pocketing balls that lived. As Grady once said about him, position play seemed to get in his way.
Before these threads lately I couldn't have told you what I looked at last but it is the OB. I have no good reason for doing this like everyone else it's just the way I swing it.
In golf.. the golfer isn't looking at the green.. he's looking at the ball...
And OP I do the same thing you do. When we get down in position to shoot, we are already lined up (unless you're blind) so to me it's just making sure I hit the spot i want to hit on the CB.
Oddly enough, last night after supper i took to the table and decided to work on my nemesis shot - the long, straight-in draw shot. so i decided i am going to look at the OB last and boom, i nailed the first two dead center and the CB drew straight back. then i hit a couple looking at the CB last and missed them both.
so i lay the cue down and go feed my two cats and come back to the table about 10 minutes later. i shoot a couple of more long, straight-in draw shots looking at the OB last and missed them both. i then shoot a couple looking at the CB last and bingo, made them both.
maybe nothing works for me, perhaps i should just close my eyes..
Mike
so i lay the cue down and go feed my two cats and come back to the table about 10 minutes later. i shoot a couple of more long, straight-in draw shots looking at the OB last and missed them both. i then shoot a couple looking at the CB last and bingo, made them both.
maybe nothing works for me, perhaps i should just close my eyes..
Mike
I do both.
If the cb and ob are fairly close to each other and the pocketing line is very doable, but the shape calls for severe cb manipulation-I shoot looking at the cb last. Same thing if it is a very thin cut(1-2 layers of paint).
Medium or long shots-I generally shoot looking at ob last and minimize english-trying to hit mostly center ball(vertical axis). At distance-too high or too low on the cb sort of self resolve after the cb rolls a while.
I miss alot using both methods-so I don't have a preference. Any excuse will do.
If the cb and ob are fairly close to each other and the pocketing line is very doable, but the shape calls for severe cb manipulation-I shoot looking at the cb last. Same thing if it is a very thin cut(1-2 layers of paint).
Medium or long shots-I generally shoot looking at ob last and minimize english-trying to hit mostly center ball(vertical axis). At distance-too high or too low on the cb sort of self resolve after the cb rolls a while.
I miss alot using both methods-so I don't have a preference. Any excuse will do.
The parallel to pool here would be if we were looking at the pocket we want the ball fall into. So, that analogy doesn't work.
What the golfer is NOT doing - is looking at the club to make sure he's hitting the ball. He's looking at the ball and relying on his muscle memory, stance and grip to bring his club through the ball. Gee, that sounds familiar, doesn't it?
