Another post I turned into a thread...

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was talking about Gabe and Dip and the heart they both showed the other night paying for $20,000 races to 11 one pocket. Dip won both sets 11-10. But thats not what this post is about, I got off topic and started talking about pool in general. There was about 6 of us on the rail watching, back in the day there would have been 200+ people standing 3 deep trying to get a look at the table, anyways here is my post(and writing practice-I didnt edit this at all, its a first pass, all critism is encouraged) thanks:


I have awalys respected Gabes game, he is one of the only pro's I dont know, infact that nite was the first time we spoke. Funny how that works, He is a pro/champion without a bit of doubt. It showed the other night as it has many times in the past. He was eating bananas and cashews-thats what I eat when I play, funny how that works, I never knew that, like I said I dont know Gabe. I sorta do now, I have awalys respected him, losing 2 sets hill/hill is a ball buster for anyone and he took it well, he didnt start up throwing things or complaining. It was just another day at the office, same as when I have seen him win. He dosent appear to let the highs be to high or the lows be to low. He played his best and lost, we talked about it for a few minutes and I learned alot from him, his temperment was unchanged-thats something I need to work on, he didnt beat himself up over losing(at least from what I saw) sure he was very disappointed. But he took it like a man or a true professional.

Its such a shame pool is turning into shit league play and this side of pool is a dieing breed. To me this is what pool is all about, not "My team" and "How much we drank" etc....Sure I know its keeping pool alive, but that dosent mean I have to perfer it over the pro side or action side or pro action. Guys like Billy managing games, $$$$, matching up, moving, stalling, or straight up gambling. The days of the straight pool match in the "Hustler" for the first 25 minutes of that movie are gone and IMO thats the biggest loss to our sport/game/gambling vice. You pay your dues climb the ladder and get to playing a speed and being able to handle betting reasonable amounts of $$$, testing your limits, pushing your limits. For some it comes fast and easy for others it comes very slowly but anyone can be a $$$ player if they got the heart-even if they arnt great players, Dip is proof, Archie, Tooth(he played pretty good compaired to Dip). But that was the goal for all of us 25 years ago-to play on the front table for big $$$ or even if the game was only for $200 there mite be $500 more on the side. Corporation's getting behind their player. Its all gone.

People want instant gratification. They dont want to put the work in it takes to get there-there front table. Even for the most gifted players it still took a year, took me 3 years, I wish we had 2000 Bartrums in America. But no we have Facebook and the like, easy instant gratification BS. I sound like a old man but I'm only 43 and 70% pf the people in the pool room that can play are older than me, same % as it was when I was 21. hardly any young guys like scooter/tedder comming into pool. Sad very sad.


please tell me I'm wrong and prove it, That would be the best news for all of us. Look at when they do a PPV stream on a big match and they get 200 buys thats 4 people in each state, how sad is that, more than 4 people die in car crashes in each state during the stream of a match. Does that put it into perspective???


respectfully,

Fatboy
 
poolhustler said:
Ummmm...... FIRST!!!!!!

:)
Click to expand...


no man this isnt a First, second kinda thread-I'm serious here. WTF is happening to pool HB is a night club real soon, thats a shame it was one of the best pool rooms in America, but you see any players in there 22 years old that can play on a regular basis? never. HOB in SM is a good room, well kept up, same faces for how many years??? no new blood in pool at least not on the west coast.
 
there are so many other things for young people to do.

Also poker has a big part in ruining pool, the young players looking for a quick score can get on a computer or sit in a card room and don't need much skill to make a buck.
 
Fatboy said:
I was talking about Gabe and Dip and the heart they both showed the other night paying for $20,000 races to 11 one pocket. Dip won both sets 11-10. But thats not what this post is about, I got off topic and started talking about pool in general. There was about 6 of us on the rail watching, back in the day there would have been 200+ people standing 3 deep trying to get a look at the table, anyways here is my post(and writing practice-I didnt edit this at all, its a first pass, all critism is encouraged) thanks:


I have awalys respected Gabes game, he is one of the only pro's I dont know, infact that nite was the first time we spoke. Funny how that works, He is a pro/champion without a bit of doubt. It showed the other night as it has many times in the past. He was eating bananas and cashews-thats what I eat when I play, funny how that works, I never knew that, like I said I dont know Gabe. I sorta do now, I have awalys respected him, losing 2 sets hill/hill is a ball buster for anyone and he took it well, he didnt start up throwing things or complaining. It was just another day at the office, same as when I have seen him win. He dosent appear to let the highs be to high or the lows be to low. He played his best and lost, we talked about it for a few minutes and I learned alot from him, his temperment was unchanged-thats something I need to work on, he didnt beat himself up over losing(at least from what I saw) sure he was very disappointed. But he took it like a man or a true professional.

Its such a shame pool is turning into shit league play and this side of pool is a dieing breed. To me this is what pool is all about, not "My team" and "How much we drank" etc....Sure I know its keeping pool alive, but that dosent mean I have to perfer it over the pro side or action side or pro action. Guys like Billy managing games, $$$$, matching up, moving, stalling, or straight up gambling. The days of the straight pool match in the "Hustler" for the first 25 minutes of that movie are gone and IMO thats the biggest loss to our sport/game/gambling vice. You pay your dues climb the ladder and get to playing a speed and being able to handle betting reasonable amounts of $$$, testing your limits, pushing your limits. For some it comes fast and easy for others it comes very slowly but anyone can be a $$$ player if they got the heart-even if they arnt great players, Dip is proof, Archie, Tooth(he played pretty good compaired to Dip). But that was the goal for all of us 25 years ago-to play on the front table for big $$$ or even if the game was only for $200 there mite be $500 more on the side. Corporation's getting behind their player. Its all gone.

People want instant gratification. They dont want to put the work in it takes to get there-there front table. Even for the most gifted players it still took a year, took me 3 years, I wish we had 2000 Bartrums in America. But no we have Facebook and the like, easy instant gratification BS. I sound like a old man but I'm only 43 and 70% pf the people in the pool room that can play are older than me, same % as it was when I was 21. hardly any young guys like scooter/tedder comming into pool. Sad very sad.


please tell me I'm wrong and prove it, That would be the best news for all of us. Look at when they do a PPV stream on a big match and they get 200 buys thats 4 people in each state, how sad is that, more than 4 people die in car crashes in each state during the stream of a match. Does that put it into perspective???


respectfully,

Fatboy
Click to expand...

i agree with pretty much everything you had to say.
One of these days I will make it to vegas when you are able to hang out and BS.

Until then stay well.

I posted this in the other thread but thought it was needed here as well.
 
Fatboy said:
no man this isnt a First, second kinda thread-I'm serious here. WTF is happening to pool HB is a night club real soon, thats a shame it was one of the best pool rooms in America, but you see any players in there 22 years old that can play on a regular basis? never. HOB in SM is a good room, well kept up, same faces for how many years??? no new blood in pool at least not on the west coast.
Click to expand...

Young players need to be actively recruited. Some free lessons, leagues organized and promoted. It's not going to happen by itself. Hard Times is near an area that has several High Schools with students who have $ and time. They come in on weekends and occassionally during the week. No one tries to raise their skill level or promote pool. I'm not saying that it would be easy or even successful I'm just saying that it is not going to happen accidently. I do know from experience that when you stop growing a business it is then in the process of dying.
 
Another post

I say the same thing all the time ...instant gratification .... 1 minute chess isn't fast enough.
Rush poker, 30 second shot clock, "poker greats" who never played anyone but grandma before they won.
The world is upside down and I don't see it coming back around any time soon.
Why would a young person spend endless hours playing pool for little reward.
 
From what I have seen the younger players are taking up one pocket more now than ever, that is good. :smile:
 
Your message is right on the money. I totally agree with the thought process.
I give you A+ for the capitalizing "I". I don't think you missed any. Most noticeable improvement.:thumbup2:
Your spelling was much better also. You got some tough ones, but still missed about 7.
To many commas, many times you could have used a period and just started a new sentence. Although better in the fact that you at least had the comma.
Now for your failing grade ''''''''''''''' there are the 15 apostrophes you are missing.
Firefox would fix that.:wink:
You did get 2 right towards the end of the post. I'm impressed.
You used one where you shouldn't have. Corporations was plural, no ' needed.
Great post buddy. I concur with the thoughts and there was improvement. :cool:
 
Fatboy,

Great post. I always enjoy reading your posts, as I believe that you bring a unique perspective to the forum based on your position in pool's "inner circle". And I would also like to commend you on making the effort to improve your writing skills, both in terms of clarity of content as well as the spelling, grammar and punctuation. Not only does your improved writing make it easier on the eyes and minds of those reading it, but it allows you to express your thoughts and opinions with more clarity in a medium that inherently creates ambiguity. Cheers to you.

As far as the content of your post, I would have to agree that the "action" side of pool does not seem to be what it once was. I've only been playing pool for 2 or 3 years recreationally (at bars, in small tournaments and local leagues), but what originally drew me to it was the fact that excellence seems attainable. Not easily attainable, but attainable. I was always a good athlete growing up, but I was never going to be a pro at any sport. Too short for basketball, too small for the positions I was fast enough to play in football and too slow for the positions I was big enough to play, not agile enough or a good enough hitter in baseball, etc. In high school, it was fine, but anything after that was pie in the sky. I'm built like a powerlifter, but weightlifting never appealed to me, other than as preparation for other sports. And there is a shelf life to all of those things, anyway, along with injury potential. Having 2 ACL reconstructions makes that a real concern for me. But I've always been highly competitive, and I needed an outlet for that. I played poker for years, and did ok with it, but the luck aspect of it started to bother me more and more. Dealing with all of the bad beats started to cause my enthusiasm to wane, and hearing about all of the bad beats that others just HAD to tell me about pretty much killed it. But then I found the pool table. Pool had always held a particular fascination for me growing up. I was never around it enough to get anywhere close to good, but there was something about it. I first started playing with some friends when I was 17 or 18, but we weren't really playing, if that makes sense. We were competing, but never really took it beyond our small circle. I thought I had gotten pretty good until I played in my first tournament, and I saw what pretty good was. I stopped playing when the places I had been playing shut down shortly after that, and didn't play pool for a couple years. I wasn't 21 yet, so I couldn't get into the bars where most of the pool tables around here seem to be.

But when I picked up the cue again after I turned 21, it was a different story. I was going to be at the bar anyway, so I might as well do something I can compete at while I'm there. I thrive on the competition. I didn't take it too seriously, but I at least got comfortable around the tables. And then I realized something- I wasn't going to get "rivered" playing pool like I would playing poker (at least not as often). If I was better than my opponent, I should expect to beat them. If I was significantly better than them I could expect to beat them almost every time. That is awesome. All I need to do is put the time in and work and I'll have my results reflect the effort. For the higher skilled poker player, in the long run their results will show they are better than the lower skilled player. But pool shows that in both the short and long run. I should reasonably expect to win 30% of all of the hands I play against Phil Ivey if we played heads up because sometimes I will just have a better hand than he will, but over the long run he will beat me. But if I play Johnny Archer, there will never be one of those ESPN WSOP check marks next to my name, showing that I am guaranteed to win this game. I don't want the instant gratification win of sucking out on the river to win, I want to earn it. That's what pool gives me, but poker doesn't. Unfortunately, I think for most people it is the opposite. They think that just by being there, they are entitled to win. Put your chips on the table and let the cards fall as they may. Why the heck would I want to do that? I want to have an active role in my results.

I think if more people took the responsibility to work for their results in anything, pool would become more popular. There is something romantic about the old time gambling stories from Johnson City, The Rack or the road players, but those are from a different time. There was a certain tinge of necessity to those stories. "Steal my daddy's cue, and make a living out of playing pool" as Rod Stewart sang. I don't know if the road player's life can ever be as common as it once was, but the gambling sure can. But we need to stop people from thinking that they are entitled to anything. If you want something that someone else has, throw down a challenge, put something of yours at risk and may the best man win. But can that ever happen in these days of everyone gets a trophy for participating, you can sue McDonald's for making your coffee too hot, let's put warning labels on everything? I think the Chris Bartrum's of the world are a dying breed in general, not just in pool. But maybe, if people can be convinced that pool is something you can do for the rest of your life at a very high level (I know for a fact, because Al Romero just kicked my ass in the First Sunday tournament at Hard Times this month, and he's got 40 years on me), maybe more people will start to take it up, turn off Poker Stars and drive out to their local pool room and shoot pool. The more gamblers we get taking up pool, the more gambling there will be in pool, which will mean there will be more interest in gambling on pool, and that can only be good for those who already love it.

Wow- i rambled for way longer than I thought I would. Thanks to whoever made it this far without having their eyes bleed. I think I had a point when I first started this, but I'll be damned if I can remember what it was.

Johnny
 
rackem said:
your message is right on the money. I totally agree with the thought process.
I give you a+ for the capitalizing "i". I don't think you missed any. Most noticeable improvement.:thumbup2:
Your spelling was much better also. You got some tough ones, but still missed about 7.
To many commas, many times you could have used a period and just started a new sentence. Although better in the fact that you at least had the comma.
Now for your failing grade ''''''''''''''' there are the 15 apostrophes you are missing.
Firefox would fix that.:wink:
You did get 2 right towards the end of the post. I'm impressed.
You used one where you shouldn't have. Corporations was plural, no ' needed.
Great post buddy. I concur with the thoughts and there was improvement. :cool:
Click to expand...


first!!!!!!
 
It comes down to this, there are no good pool shows to watch. It is all boring unless you love pool. No matter how many banners you hang up it will still look like it does.

The funniest skit I have seen about pool is SNL "Tampax to the Max" this says it all...
 
Fatboy said:
I was talking about Gabe and Dip and the heart they both showed the other night paying for $20,000 races to 11 one pocket. Dip won both sets 11-10. But thats not what this post is about, I got off topic and started talking about pool in general. There was about 6 of us on the rail watching, back in the day there would have been 200+ people standing 3 deep trying to get a look at the table, anyways here is my post(and writing practice-I didnt edit this at all, its a first pass, all critism is encouraged) thanks:


I have awalys respected Gabes game, he is one of the only pro's I dont know, infact that nite was the first time we spoke. Funny how that works, He is a pro/champion without a bit of doubt. It showed the other night as it has many times in the past. He was eating bananas and cashews-thats what I eat when I play, funny how that works, I never knew that, like I said I dont know Gabe. I sorta do now, I have awalys respected him, losing 2 sets hill/hill is a ball buster for anyone and he took it well, he didnt start up throwing things or complaining. It was just another day at the office, same as when I have seen him win. He dosent appear to let the highs be to high or the lows be to low. He played his best and lost, we talked about it for a few minutes and I learned alot from him, his temperment was unchanged-thats something I need to work on, he didnt beat himself up over losing(at least from what I saw) sure he was very disappointed. But he took it like a man or a true professional.

Its such a shame pool is turning into shit league play and this side of pool is a dieing breed. To me this is what pool is all about, not "My team" and "How much we drank" etc....Sure I know its keeping pool alive, but that dosent mean I have to perfer it over the pro side or action side or pro action. Guys like Billy managing games, $$$$, matching up, moving, stalling, or straight up gambling. The days of the straight pool match in the "Hustler" for the first 25 minutes of that movie are gone and IMO thats the biggest loss to our sport/game/gambling vice. You pay your dues climb the ladder and get to playing a speed and being able to handle betting reasonable amounts of $$$, testing your limits, pushing your limits. For some it comes fast and easy for others it comes very slowly but anyone can be a $$$ player if they got the heart-even if they arnt great players, Dip is proof, Archie, Tooth(he played pretty good compaired to Dip). But that was the goal for all of us 25 years ago-to play on the front table for big $$$ or even if the game was only for $200 there mite be $500 more on the side. Corporation's getting behind their player. Its all gone.

People want instant gratification. They dont want to put the work in it takes to get there-there front table. Even for the most gifted players it still took a year, took me 3 years, I wish we had 2000 Bartrums in America. But no we have Facebook and the like, easy instant gratification BS. I sound like a old man but I'm only 43 and 70% pf the people in the pool room that can play are older than me, same % as it was when I was 21. hardly any young guys like scooter/tedder comming into pool. Sad very sad.


please tell me I'm wrong and prove it, That would be the best news for all of us. Look at when they do a PPV stream on a big match and they get 200 buys thats 4 people in each state, how sad is that, more than 4 people die in car crashes in each state during the stream of a match. Does that put it into perspective???


respectfully,

Fatboy
Click to expand...


Nice post, Eric. And to a large extent I agree. Unfortunately, I doubt there's much anyone can do about it. As you say, there are too many other things for youngsters coming up to do nowadays. And, there are fewer pool halls. Even at those left behind, how is a young kid supposed to fade the table rates some places are charging?

I was sitting on the rail last night sweating some action between Lutman and Cone and some of us on the rail started talking about this very subject and how, back then, your goal was to get good enough to play the rest of the pool hall on an even footing. Even when you went to another pool hall, you went in looking for someone you could at least play even. And now there is much more of a "spot me" mentality.

To quite a degree I think the whole bar league handicapping thing had an impact. And then the boats flourished and took much of the pool hall gambling economy with it. Now there's poker. I'm thinking we should all enjoy what's left while we can because who knows what it's going to look like 20 years down the road.

Lou Figueroa
 
Fast Lenny said:
From what I have seen the younger players are taking up one pocket more now than ever, that is good. :smile:
Click to expand...

I've been seeing a lot of this too here in NC. It's pretty much the main money game now. Quite a few halls I walk into around here have a one pocket table which is typically tighter than any table in the place.
 
Good post Eric
Ppl don't want to spend years playing like the guys they say they want to play like right now. They usually see results fast and then it's a grind to get better. They just don't see that a very very small improvement is just as big later on as the big improvement early on.

When I did bench press comps I would be ecstatic about a 2.5lb improvement in a week knowing that if I could keep that up for one month it would be 10lbs which is huge when benching in the 500lb range. I should have kept playing pool instead because powerlifting does a lot more damage to your body than pool.
 
rackem said:
Your message is right on the money. I totally agree with the thought process.
I give you A+ for the capitalizing "I". I don't think you missed any. Most noticeable improvement.:thumbup2:
Your spelling was much better also. You got some tough ones, but still missed about 7.
To many commas, many times you could have used a period and just started a new sentence. Although better in the fact that you at least had the comma.
Now for your failing grade ''''''''''''''' there are the 15 apostrophes you are missing.
Firefox would fix that.:wink:
You did get 2 right towards the end of the post. I'm impressed.
You used one where you shouldn't have. Corporations was plural, no ' needed.
Great post buddy. I concur with the thoughts and there was improvement. :cool:
Click to expand...

Second, and c'mon man! Beside the too, it is very poor form to use numbers under ten rather than spelling them out.

Nice post Fatboy. I agree all the way around. What is the solution?
 
Eric the replies to your thread should tell you a lot of how your communication skills have improved. Each time you start a thread you ask for everyone to tell you what they think about your writing skills.

Today I read everyone's replies and very few are even commenting on your ability to put your thoughts into typed words but rather most are replying to what you are saying. That alone shows that you have made huge advances in your quest to be better at getting your thoughts out.

Dig up one of your posts from three or four years ago and place it next to your recent posts, the difference is amazing. Remember your not just teaching yourself how to type, many of us are learning from the responses that other members have given to you!
 
Views on Pool

Great post Eric and as usual I enjoyed reading what you had to say.

The first pool room I ever went to was a room here in Charleston and it was run by a player named Eldredge Tucker. I was just a teenager at the time and I didn't know a thing about gambling and matching up at first. I don't remember going there very many times when there wasn't a game of some kind going on. It was exciting to me to see the guys match up and play for descent amounts of money. I was strictly a banger since I was just starting out trying to learn and it was a treat for me to watch the guys who knew how to play match up and go at it.

One pocket and 9 ball were the games that the money was on and back then there would be much more side action than the actual match itself. Like you said the word would get out when a big game was going on and the room quickly filled with spectators and side bettors. Those were the days and also what got me interested in pool and to this day I love the game.

Today, pool is all about leagues and bar boxes and I hate it. What I wouldn't give to have a room like Eldridge had with the players coming in to match up and go at it, but sadly it's not going to happen here anymore.

James
 
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