Archer's View on Diamond tables

btoneill said:
So, would you recommend using Centennial balls over Super Aramith Pro? Do the new Aramith Tournament balls have the same issue? Asking, because a new set of balls is on my list of future purchases :)

Brian
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Either set is better than the Super Aramith Pro balls, as neither share the same finish fading problems of the Pro's...which IS the problem with the Pro's.;)
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
My understanding is that skidding occurs usually because some foreign substance (chalk, dirt, etc.) at the point of contact of the two balls causes the two balls to "lock up" so to speak. This usually results in a shot that appears to have been hit too full.

If it happens on Diamonds more often the other tables, particularly GC's, I'm thinking perhaps the reason is the marks put on the balls by the dyed leather pockets.
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BINGO! You nailed it there Mitchell. I also have a Diamond in my home and must clean the balls regularly. This is a problem that needs to be remedied. Fortunately a little hand cleaner does the trick getting these marks off the balls. So before any game I play with someone I clean them real good. After an hour or two, there are marks on all the balls again. Any time you hit the pocket hard, it leaves a mark. It has to do with the leather used in the pockets.

By the way, I LOVE my Diamond table! I will never trade it for anything else. I also happen to like the new Gold Crowns. To me it's like the difference between a Lincoln and a Caddy, both good cars. Compared with what else is out there, I'd prefer one of these two tables. I don't mind taking five minutes to clean the balls once in a while. Have you ever noticed how often Earl cleans the balls? He's always done that. So did Mosconi all those years ago. John Schmidt is another one who realizes clean balls play better. So what else is new? Shame on Johnny for not cleaning them after all those racks! It was inevitable this would happen eventually and he should know that.
 
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I dont know about static electricity or wool sweaters, but I have noticed one thing from several visits at One-Side in Manila: I hardly ever get a skid when I play there!

One unique fixture at that place are the spotters / refs. Several of them - at least my favourite spotter - cleans the top of the rails between each game with a small cloth. Takes less than 5 seconds..

I believe this is the main factor to keep dirt and chalk away from the balls and the playing surface. Your hands touch the rail and then the cloth and the balls. Amateurs like to put the chalk face down on the rail - both Efren and Dennis O do it - and if you dont wipe the rail properly, you are begging for a skid.
 
Neil said:
Thanks for the chuckles this morning guys! One thing is apparent in this thread- too many of you are "star struck". Just because someone is real, real, good at what they do, does NOT mean that everything they say is to be taken as the gospel truth! While the pros are very, very, good at what they do, you would be surprised at how often what they THINK they know is wrong.

When a pro says something, listen carefully, but keep your brain intact. They are just people too, just like you and me, and are often wrong about things. If Johnny really did make the statement that ball skidding is due to the brand of table, that statement alone should make ANYONE raise an eyebrow or two, and make you question ANYTHING else he says!

Just think about it for a second or two guys. There is NO WAY that the balls are sitting there saying, "Oh, we are so happy to be on a diamond table that we need to give each other a little hug when we come in contact with each other!" The only way the balls could know what brand table they were on is if they get knocked on the floor and happen to read the name on the side of the table while they are down there, and then they would have to have learned how to read! Sounds pretty ridiculous when you break down the statement, doesn't it!

Now, what Glenn said about the TYPES of balls used, THAT makes perfect sense. Don't really know if it's true, but at least it makes sense which gives it a good air of credibility.
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Amazing how you could possibly believe you know more about anything on a pool table than Johnny Archer. What I THINK they know is 1000x what you know. I've listened enough to top players over the years to realize they understand things about the game the rest of us don't. You can keep practicing in your garage and second guess the pros who travel all over the world and play on every table/ball combination imaginable or you can open up your mind and realize you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

I don't know whether JA really even said the anything bad about diamonds but if I heard him say it, I'd listen and try to educate myself.
 
realkingcobra said:
All Diamond tables used in tournaments, including the DCC, use the Super Aramith Pro balls;)
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I think in this particular situation they were using Centennials that were brought in for this 14.1 Challenge.

What is the old saying......"skid happens"?
 
skid in pool = shank in golf
cause is operator error doing the wrong thing at the wrong time.

bill
 
We all say things in the heat of battle that we'd like to take back. In this case maybe 20 people heard him say that. Now that it's put on AZ 10,000 people will hear of it. FOR WHAT REASON???? Johnnyt
 
I have a table that has pockets that leaves marks on the balls so I'm of the school that the table can affect skid along with a lot of other factors.
 
Johnnyt said:
We all say things in the heat of battle that we'd like to take back. In this case maybe 20 people heard him say that. Now that it's put on AZ 10,000 people will hear of it. FOR WHAT REASON???? Johnnyt
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So everyone will realize that the OP is "in the know".......you have been here long enough JT, I shouldn't have to give you a tutorial.;)
 
As far as "static electricity" is concerned...it's a non-starter of a theory. The quantity of charge that would be needed to impart any (no matter how slight) change in direction of a nearly 6 ounce ball would be VERY noticable when you went to pick one up. When's the last time you took a zap from a pool ball?
 
tryhonesty07 said:
I was watching the 2010 DCC 14.1 challenge tonight and specifically Johnny Archers 146 ball run. What ended the run appeared to be a ball skidding, which resulted in him missing a shot in the side pocket. After this, he starting talking about the shot.... then says "thats why these are the worst tables ever built" and goes on to say something about Gold Crowns that I was unable to hear. This is the first time I've ever heard a top pro dog Diamond like that. Just thought I would share.
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I wonder how he feels about them now, since Diamond is now one his sponsors!!
 
jay helfert said:
BINGO! You nailed it there Mitchell. I also have a Diamond in my home and must clean the balls regularly. This is a problem that needs to be remedied......

By the way, I LOVE my Diamond table! I will never trade it for anything else......
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You nailed it too Jay.

I also have a Diamond and LOVE it. The ONLY problem with it is the marks on the balls from the pockets.
 
Balls skidding

everyone has oil on their finger tips... Everyone touches all the balls when they rack them...everyone touches the cue rock when they get ball in hand... Not everyone cleans the cue rock when they are in the kitchen... The table cleans some of it off, but not all of it... When you clean the oil off the tops of the rails, you'll see how big of a bloch comes off our fingers and palms...clean hands often, in addition to the balls...great discussion.........diamond tables and gold crowns are awesome
 
mosconiac said:
As far as "static electricity" is concerned...it's a non-starter of a theory. The quantity of charge that would be needed to impart any (no matter how slight) change in direction of a nearly 6 ounce ball would be VERY noticable when you went to pick one up. When's the last time you took a zap from a pool ball?
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Electrical or financial? :grin-square:

Best,
Brian kc
 
LowRight said:
You nailed it too Jay.

I also have a Diamond and LOVE it. The ONLY problem with it is the marks on the balls from the pockets.
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I also have a Diamond and love it as much now as the day the Cobra finished setting it up. I no longer have the problems with the black marks on the balls but I agree the balls must be maintained... even more so then the cloth.
 
realkingcobra said:
First of all, let me say that statement would be more valuable if Johnny had made it instead of you.

As far as sharing goes...as you like to put it, then why don't you SHARE the fact that Johnny Archer....HAS in fact...a Diamond 9ft ProAm in his pool room!...or DIDN'T you know about that?;)

Are you even aware of the fact...that I redesigned the playing conditions of the rails on all Diamond tables?...or are you just interested in trying to stir the pot here on AZ?

Since the US Open...have you heard one negative comment about Diamond tables....since you like to share/report..what Johnny has to say about Diamond tables?

Here's a little thought for all of you who think Diamonds skid more than any other tables out here. First of all, all things being equal on Gold Crowns vs Diamond tables, same cloth and all...then ask yourselves what's different between the tables! Hmmmm....MAYBE we should take a look at the balls...COULD there be a major difference between the Brunswick Centennial balls used on a Gold Crown vs the Super Aramith Pro balls used on the Diamond's? YES...there is, the finish don't last on the Super Aramith Pro balls, which in turn with the loss of the finish, the friction factor increases...which in turn, causes cling/hold/ball hop...what ever you want to call it....it even causes balls to hopp off the rails...and play boingy off the cushions....often blamed on the TABLE!!!

So, I say to you....get your damn facts straight....go ask Johnny Archer....if he even knows who you are...what he thinks about Diamond tables...paticularly...the DIAMOND PROAM in his pool room!!!

You..."overheard"....Johnny....and took that to be FACT reporting...a year later?????

Glen, the "Realkingcobra"
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I dont get why you took this so personally? Because you installed a bunch of diamond?...one of which was for me a few years ago. Grow up. I didnt put words in anybodys mouth, or create a rumor, I took words that he said on video and wanted to see what others thought about it. It was is honest reaction to the table, not what hes told to say. I've always loved diamonds and it SHOCKED me that this was his response to a "skid". In my opinion, the ball didnt even skid, I watched it several times and he claims it skid so bad it didnt touch the ball next to it, which it did. thats besides the point. How can you get pissy with me over something that Johnny said? I guess your just another internet tough guy.
 
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Jay, cuebuddy, and a few others in this thread have alluded to the marks on balls caused by Diamond's pockets, specifically, I believe from the leather dye they used to use.

I seem to remember a discussion on azb a while back and there were some suggestions on how this might be remedied.

Does anyone (Glenn?) know how to fix this particular problem?

Best,
Brian kc
 
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