ABP boycotts Berhman's event

I think Joe W is on to something with the pre-sale of DVDs. However, the thought that 5,000 pool fans would pre-order the US open coverage is extremely optimistic. If one thousand were to come through I would be impressed. Still, that would be a good start.

Brainstorming time people...
 
If I did this correctly, there are 14 players that are past champions on this ABP list... that is a total of $7000.00 saved on entry fees for Barry. Maybe that alone will help Barry break even or even make some money...

If you didn't know, Barry pays the entry fee for the past champions. At $500 per that is $7000.00 saved.
 
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Abp

I don't believe the ABP should have events or a tour of their own. In the past all the UPA did was threaten all other promoters.
It was a bad situation.

The players do not need to react as they are.
It is absolutely imperative that players get paid for placing in a tournament.

Did the ABP try to negotiate anything with Behrman?
Behrman caused his own problems and I do not agree with things he has done - BUT he has run an event for 35 years and everyone has been paid.

There is usually a reasonable solution to any problem - but there has to be discussion. Threats do not constitute discussion.

I think this is a few players trying to flex their muscles.
It could backfire big time.

What the players need to understand is that they have to 'bring something' to the event. Most have not been willing to do that.

This is all unfortunate for the billiard industry in the US. But this will also be an opportunity or the new guns to show their stuff!

Mark griffin
 
Tom In Cincy said:
If I did this correctly, there are 14 players that are past champions on this ABP list... that is a total of $7000.00 saved on entry fees for Barry. Maybe that alone will help Barry break even or even make some money...
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. It will save Barry lots of money and maybe he can pay the winners on time when he doesn't have to start with money lost ;)

S.G.
 
Barry makes money MOST years IMO. If charlie W can make money on his poorly attended events through sponsorship, admissions and room kickbacks, The US Open is a home run. What other tournament gets over 30-40k in advanced VIP sales and Vendors? What other pool event fills 3-4 hotels?. He gets the damn Mayor there always cause its the biggest event in Chesapeake the whole year!

The US Open was the only thing that kept Barry going as the # of his poolrooms went from 3 to 2 to 1 struggling. He would have bowed out a long time ago if he wasnt making dough. You think he is subsidizing it, gimme a break.
 
Mark Griffin said:
I don't believe the ABP should have events or a tour of their own. In the past all the UPA did was threaten all other promoters.
It was a bad situation.

The players do not need to react as they are.
It is absolutely imperative that players get paid for placing in a tournament.

Did the ABP try to negotiate anything with Behrman?
Behrman caused his own problems and I do not agree with things he has done - BUT he has run an event for 35 years and everyone has been paid.

There is usually a reasonable solution to any problem - but there has to be discussion. Threats do not constitute discussion.

I think this is a few players trying to flex their muscles.
It could backfire big time.

What the players need to understand is that they have to 'bring something' to the event. Most have not been willing to do that.

This is all unfortunate for the billiard industry in the US. But this will also be an opportunity or the new guns to show their stuff!

Mark griffin
Click to expand...

Simple Solution,

Lose the Ego. From both sides......

Charlie, bless his heart, is one of the most egotistical people in the pool world. While some of his ideas are good, you cant bully people into seeing your points.
 
VIP Seats

I have purchased VIP seats the past few years and I will not this year nor will I be going if all these players Boycott. VIP seats can be cancelled for, if I remember correctly, a $25 charge. I wonder how many people will cancel their prepaid VIP seats rather than watch a watered down tournament with mid-level pro's...those seats aren't cheap!!!
 
ABP boycott of us open

I really hope all of the players really understand that their name is on this list.

I hope they understand all of the future ramifications - especially if they are a past champion.

I know several names that are listed as supporting the ABP - and they only 'loaned' their name. This whole situation is bizarre.

The ABP wants seeding (where is the rankings coming from?) - they want their own rules and length of races (without talking to the promoters of the events) - and other 'requirements'.

They are in conflict with all of the standards - even conflicting with all of the BCA points and what they represent. (WPA invites and Mosconi invites).

I am a promoter. I pay in full every time. With all of the requirements proposed by the ABP, it is very possible we will either change our events, or possibly cancel it. I would come out a lot better having more 7' tables - we do the pro event because we love the game.

This whole process was done with tunnel vision and in a vacuum.

Again, I really hope some of these players are perceptive enough to grasp what is going on.

Ok - no more rants. I am going to go for a walk.

Mark griffin
Markg@playcsipool.com

Ps. I prefer most communication through email- not pm. Thanks
 
There have been a lot of people suggesting that Barry could save a lot of money by having the tournament at his pool room instead of the convention center. What they aren't taking into consideration is what he'd lose by closing the poolroom to the customers during the event. That would take any advantage or savings out of the equation. Why do you think he moved it from the pool room to the convention center? This is a no win situation. The only way the US Open could be a viable event is if it somehow garnered some deep pocket corporate sponsorship from outside the billiard industry. Barry has built it into an extravaganza that can't possibly support itself. He's pumped a small fortune into the event over the last 35 years. Make that a not so small fortune, if you add it up. He goes into debt each year to pay off the players and still owes some of the others who make the tournament work, but he keeps plugging away. I think the players are shooting themselves in the foot by boycotting the event, but Barry's doing the same by having the event to begin with. The numbers just don't jive and I think it's amazing it's lasted this long.
 
Nostroke said:
Barry makes money MOST years IMO. If charlie W can make money on his poorly attended events through sponsorship, admissions and room kickbacks, The US Open is a home run. What other tournament gets over 30-40k in advanced VIP sales and Vendors? What other pool event fills 3-4 hotels?. He gets the damn Mayor there always cause its the biggest event in Chesapeake the whole year!

The US Open was the only thing that kept Barry going as the # of his poolrooms went from 3 to 2 to 1 struggling. He would have bowed out a long time ago if he wasnt making dough. You think he is subsidizing it, gimme a break.
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I don't think he does very well with it. Last couple years I've been around Barry during the Open and seen some of what goes on behind the scenes. There is no possible way he makes enough money to go through what he does every year.

I also do not think he slow pays out of some ulterior motive to benefit himself...it just doesnt make sense. The bad PR is more expensive than any profit he could realize. I think he just bites off more than he can chew trying to build the event every year. I suspect there is a strong component of him wanting to build a legacy as well which drives him to over reach.

I think he should scale it back added money wise. He would get most of the same players without all the headaches. If you know Barry then you know he does like the grandiose and that I think is the the biggest fault in the whole deal.

Slow pay is a bad thing but I dont see any notices about boycotting any future Makabenta events (World 10 Ball slow pay two years running) this is a power play plain and simple. I don't see any upside for the ABP. You should only fight battles you can win.
 
I hope these guys have themselves organized very well before they start threatening to pull themselves out of tours and tournaments.

They have to realize that organizing and then just dropping an idea like "lets boycott (event) because they are not guaranteed money." may blow up in their faces.

Step number one is to meet with whoever runs the even and get facts straight.
Is there going to be money?
Will it be at the event?
Can we agree that we should be expected to be paid in X amount of time?

Come up with a binding contract. If you are going to organize in a sport like this, be prepared to have a different contract for every event. And that contract can last 1 event or it can last a number of events.

Plus, they have to understand the give and take of the industry. Without the pros, the tournaments and tours are losing out.
Without the tours and tournaments, where does that leave the pros?
They have to sit down and find the best fit for each of them.

They have to realize what this is. This isn't a multi-billion dollar league like the NFL or MLB. At least not yet.....(im not being optimistic, but pool has the potential to become a high-dollar sporting event. I can hear the laughing already.)
Sponsors have to dump money into these things to create an initial fund. Spectators have to be willing to pay to see these things. More spectators = more sponsor interest = more money into the events.
It wouldnt be so much of a pipe dream if everyone in the sport would get on the same page.

But I just hope these guys aren't in over their heads. Before you decide to 'strike' an event, it would take months of negotiations just to see what you would be up against. I understand about not being paid for months etc. etc. But in this situation, you kind of got to put that aside and discuss the future. Hammer out the details now for future events. Then when the time comes, decide whether or not to attend an event or strike it.

This seems like pulling the trigger before looking down the sights to me.

I have a little experience with these kinds of dealings.
 
Well Said

JCIN said:
I don't think he does very well with it. Last couple years I've been around Barry during the Open and seen some of what goes on behind the scenes. There is no possible way he makes enough money to go through what he does every year.

I also do not think he slow pays out of some ulterior motive to benefit himself...it just doesnt make sense. The bad PR is more expensive than any profit he could realize. I think he just bites off more than he can chew trying to build the event every year. I suspect there is a strong component of him wanting to build a legacy as well which drives him to over reach.

I think he should scale it back added money wise. He would get most of the same players without all the headaches. If you know Barry then you know he does like the grandiose and that I think is the the biggest fault in the whole deal.

Slow pay is a bad thing but I dont see any notices about boycotting any future Makabenta events (World 10 Ball slow pay two years running) this is a power play plain and simple. I don't see any upside for the ABP. You should only fight battles you can win.
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Well said, Barry should realize that he has already built a legacy and scale back. His 30+ year running tournament is already a great legacy!!!
 
Tom In Cincy said:
This has a familiar sound to it... same sounds as the org that started in 2003.

What does the ABP have to guarantee the US Open 9 Ball event?



And the first act is to boycott an event that offers prize money. We have to lose money first, then we can grow?

I would like to see the ABP start its own tour.
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They offer the very best players in the world is all! You Go Boys!!!
 
Barry should just conduct the tourney how he wants, and totally disregard their threat, go on business as usual. If they don't attend so what. Their problem here is they have no value to anyone besides themselves...The event speaks for itself. US OPEN! So a few guys do not want to show..I did not even look at the list because pool players are easily replaced (ALL).

That is the real issue isn't it. They seem to be over inflating their value a little bit. They could be replaced by APA 7's, and normal people couldn't tell the difference. The event would probably do the same exact numbers.
 
I can understand boycotting an event that has a history of slow paying and they refuse to post. What I can’t see is the players trying to dictate to the promoters that they must have ABP ranked seeding, what game will be played, play by ABP rules, and like their site says…more things to come.

What I think is really sad is that less than a dozen US players make what I call a living for being some of the best pool players in the world. Most, if not all the ones that make any kind of living are sponsored. Will the sponsors keep sponsoring players that don’t play in all the big tournaments that are offered? W/O their sponsors you can subtract 30-35% from their yearly earnings when they have to pay for their own travel, hotel, and entry fees. Another words at best maybe two US players would make a living, and that living would be far less than 100k. JMO. Johnnyt
 
My opinion may not be important but I do have something to say.

1st, the ABP has no shot of being a real players union. For them to be successful in this format there would have to have been a successful, profitable tour for them to boycott. Boycotting independent events as a group gets them nowhere. I am sure the US Open or the Turning Stone events will go on in one form or another with or without these players but I do not fault any of them for not wanting to attend the US Open event based on what we all know about the lack of payouts in a timely manner or in a whole from this event.

2nd, the ABP should absolutely 100% without a doubt start there own tour. I happen to be personally familiar with the ins and outs of tours and I personally think it would be the right thing to do at the right time which is RIGHT NOW. I mentioned this in a conversation with Archer this past weekend and I think it took him by surprise and I really do not think they have given this idea much thought but the definitely should.

3rd, many here are right in saying this organization will not work. As soon as the 1st player crosses the picket line all is lost for the APB. The only people that will suffer will be the remaining players on the other side of the line that did not cross it.

To sum this up. There is NO TOUR and NO MULTIPLE events here in the USA for them (the ABP) to boycott. Last weekend Archer and Putnam both played in a $3,000 Guaranteed Prize Fund with only $1,000 guaranteed 1st place Olhausen/Maxim Billiards Tour event. I mean really, if they want to boycott any event under $25,000 added and not seeded which this event was not seeded either then neither one of them had any business showing up and playing at that event. How freaking serious are they and what were they thinking?

As of right now without any real tour to boycott the ABP is nothing more than a bad joke or press release if you will.

If these guys want to really get something going for themselves they need to add a promoter and tour coordinator to there roster and get the ball rolling now.
 
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