Pics of the "Fatboy" Rails and Pockets for TAR 21. Yeah they are a wee bit tight.
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
Yeah I can understand that, I just find it a little pussy footing around instead of just jumping right into it head first and doing it right the first time, this game changes at the pace of a slow growing tree normally and with the state it is in I kinda wish we at least threw some bloody fertilizer on the thing.
To begin with I would have made it 4.25, which for pro play on a 5x10 table would be perfect for the ongoing future, that is the specs of a table that would not get outplayed by Wu, Yang, Orcullo, SVB, or any of the top pros and it would work as a playing surface to determine the best of the best for the forseeable future in this sport. But taking the baby step of 4.5 inch pockets on the 5x10 is going to result in people figuring out the feel for the new angles and longer shots and getting to the same point eventually that we are on the 9-foots.
One has to wonder, if the upcomming 10-foot table going to be tougher then this tighter cut 9-foot table? If not it is a sideways step at best and that depresses me a wee bit.
You are the guy to ask this Glen, for pocket size how easy is it for you to convert a 4.5 inch pocket on these tables to 4.25? How much work to say build two sperate rail systems, one with 4.5 and one with 4.25 that could be swtiched in and out pretty quickly?
If you could do that then what you could do is invite a few pros to play on the new table with the two different specs, get a couple pros to do a couple exhibition matches on the thing with the two different setups as a stream (either free or PPV) and then ask them both their opinions on the table with the two different pocket sizes and what they think would be best for the game in the future and how well they think the pros would adapt in time to the two tables and what each might do for the game and the results in matches in the future.
IMO building two rail systems for the same table with the different specs for the purpose of testing the table at the different pocket sizes one after another would be a very useful test and worth the time and effort if Diamond ever decided to go forward with building more 10-foots.
Hmmm......Helfert and Incardone together for 3 days?
If there's a lull in the commentating, you'll know they're doing something on the
side.
I like Jay at head-on hold 'em
I like Billy at backgammon
Gin rummy is a wash
And could you speak a little louder on Saturday, please?..........
...I won't be near a computer....:angry:
gonna be a great match
Building different rails with tighter pockets is not the problem, that can actually be done real easy, but, are you just talking about playing rotation games on the 5'x10'...or did you consider 14.1 being played on the table as well with the 4 1/4" corner pockets? As well as bank pool, and 8 ball too. The problem I've come across, is that I've never really seen a 5'x10' that played real good, or had not only perfect pockets...but all corner pockets have been different in sizes. I use to play 14.1 at the 211 club in Seattle, WA on the old 5'x10's they had there, and the pockets were huge by todays standards...but everyone still missed sooner or later.:grin:
Glen
Well it is a little different for each game. Most of the games would be better on the tighter pockets, for some games it becomes crucial.
10-Ball: The larger playing surface is in some ways a benefit in 10-ball, there is less cluster, less chance that pockets are blocked, more room to move the cueball around without other balls being in the path of the cueball. For 10-ball the potting and shape play are the whole game, and the potting should be fairly difficult since the shapeplay has aspects that are actually easier.
Straight Pool: A 10-foot table with 4 1/4 inch pockets would be the ultimate for straight pool. The larger playing surface can help lessen cluster which GREATLY helps players in straight pool. And Straight pool is played largely in the lower portion of the table somewhat like the game of snooker when a player gets into the pack and starts playing reds, blacks and pinks with the rare blue thrown into the mix. For straight pool despite the table being large the players normally use only half of it once they get going for the most part.
1-pocket: 1-pocket players like pockets akin to thimbles for the most part that push the "moving" areas of the game and limit the "offensive runs". This game I care less about, but for most 1-pocket players if they played on the 10-foot table they would want 4 1/4.
8-Ball: Now for the grand daddy and THE game I would love to see pro's play on actual proper equipment. And one of these 10-foot tables with 4 1/4 inch pockets would be the PERFECT table to see professional level 8-ball played on. THIS is the table that is needed to suddenly make 8-ball sufficiently difficult for the professional ranks. I would LOVE to see 8-ball played on a 10-foot diamond with 4 1/4 inch pockets. 4 1/2 inchers would simply bring credence to the so many people on this forum that say "8-ball is too easy, the pros will just run out every table". IMO this would not be an issue if we had this 10-foot table with 4 1/4 inch pockets, that would make the game the perfect challenge for the pros and would be an amazingly interesting game to watch. IMO 8-ball on a 10-foot with 4 1/4 pockets might actually gain "public" insterest if they saw it on TV or played live in an exhibition match in a mall.
Part of the reason I think 4 1/4 would be ideal is your own words, the pockets will be built "right", they will actually take well hit balls and not spit them out. This wont be "gaff" tight, there will be pocket there that will accept a well hit ball from anywhere on the table, if you miss on this table with 4 1/4 inch pockets then you "DID" miss. And for the pro's that is the way it should be.
<edit> BTW Glen, I am already estatic that you guys are making these tables to begin with. I have been dreaming of 10-footers coming back into the game for decades. I also have dreamed about a table finally being built where professional 8-ball would become the game it should be. IMO 8-ball is THE best game the professionals could play if we ever want to see "pool" become a reasonably popular spectator sport. I think Joe Public would actually watch professional 8-ball played on proper equipment, and you are 4 1/4 inch pockets away from building EXACTLY what I have always dreamed was THE perfect 8-ball table for pro play.
My dream is a sport where the amature ranks play 8-ball in leagues like the BCA, TAP, ect...on 7-foot Diamonds with normal pockets, which are easy for bars to house and nice and reasonable for the amatures to compete on. The professional ranks are played on 10-foot Diamonds with 4 1/4 inch pockets, same game of 8-ball, same rules, just playing on the large tables and the smaller pockets, the big leagues. The amature ranks in effect become the qualifying school of the sport, the professional tour card would come from a large and well organized league system, IMO atm the BCAPL looks almost ripe to take something like this on. To make the professional game 8-ball on proper equipment would actually have alot of synergy with the amature league system, Joe Public watching professional 8-ball tournaments on television is going to give amature 8-ball leagues more legitimacy and more of a connection to the professional sport of "pool". For the BCA, who could easily run a professional 8-ball event on the new 10-foot tables at the same time as running their amature league championships in Las Vegas it would be a great way to slowly start introducing people to the new potential professional game, a far better endevour then the current pro 10-ball event and possibly have alot more payoff. If they did not want to risk it they could simply put the 8-ball event in the penthouse where the masters and pros used to play, let people watch the first years event for free with bleacher seating as they had up there because you want people to see the thing and see the potential. You need to get the sport out there.
The first few years you do this you also put 2 or 3 10-foot tables in the "action room" at the front of the convention area so people can watch the top amatures playing 8-ball and other games on the 10-foots with those 4 1/4 inch pockets and get an idea of how tough they are based on how Ike Runnels, Edwin Montal, Jason Kirkwood, Scott Rabon, and other top players are doing on the things as they gamble on them. What this does is make people go "wow, tough table, these guys are awesome and they are not getting out every time like they used too..., I wonder how Ralf, Thorsten, Archer and all those guys can manage these things playing the same game?" and off those people go to watch the pro event and see how it is going for them. And if the pros are not getting out on every single 8-ball rack, if the matches are battles, the spectator is going to be curious and stay to see. Some rare pro like a SVB or a Orcullo might show some extra gears that are letting them play pretty darn good, and that starts to really say something about who is who in the sport.
I do think 8-ball on THESE tables with 4 1/4 inch pockets would be the best thing this sport could EVER do for itself. Try it out, get a challenge 8-ball match on a table with those specs, I will pay to watch a PPV stream of Earl vs SVB playing 8-ball on a 10-foot with 4 1/4 pockets, and I am pretty sure quite afew other people would as well. And I think that after the match was all said and done ALOT of people are going to realize how good that game could be as the future of this sport when played on equippment like that.
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Just posted a promo featuring Shane Van Boening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzzUB7a5A8c
He gives his prediction on the match and talks about Alex a little bit.
He gives his prediction on the match and talks about Alex a little bit.
Go full screen, like everything TAR does, it's the nutz!
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100-75 
I'll take Alex plus 24....anyone? Shane? 
:thumbup:
:thumbup:
Sweet! Already bought my ticket.
Shane is not unfamiliar with tight pockets. The problem with a lot of tables is the gaffe way some pockets play that can, and will rattle some players who like to play a little more of the pocket than just center pocket when making balls. These pockets are not going to gaffe rattle any well played shot out of the pockets at all. So, keeping that in mind, this is going to be a match up between two world class players, playing against each other, and not against the table, having to adjust their game, and being surprised at how some shots that should have went in...didn't go. There won't be any balls shot down the rails that spit out of the pockets if they're hit good. So, in all fairness...this is a real match up between two players that are not scared to play on a table with tight pockets. The table has the same 860HR on the rails as it does on the bed cloth, so there's no off balance there either, the cloth is not going to be changed on Fatboy's rails as they don't need to be changed, they're like new as it is last time I saw his table.
Bottom line is, there isn't going to be any inside secrets that favors one player over the other in this match-up. Like two boxers slugging it out right dead in the middle of the ring...it don't matter where the ropes are, or how tight they are, if the fighters never leave center stage
Glen
Last night I played on a table like that and it was making me physically sick to play shots that were dead perfect and watch the pockets spit them out. It REALLY caused me to change my game as it took away a lot of shots.
I am really really excited to see this match played on a tight table that is not "funny". How great! World's best players on the world's best equipment.
I got to hit a few on the table while Justin and his crew were testing out some settings tonight. The table plays great and I was able to run patterns that I would expect to (then again, I play on the tight table at the Golden Fleece that Glen mentioned earlier in this thread on a regular basis). If a ball didn't go in it was because I missed and not because of the pockets. I really don't expect this table to slow Alex or Shane down this weekend, but it will definitely keep them honest.
By the way, I took off at 2:30am and Justin was still hard at work. He really is thinking about everyone: players, in-house spectators and of course the PPV viewers.
By the way, I took off at 2:30am and Justin was still hard at work. He really is thinking about everyone: players, in-house spectators and of course the PPV viewers.
Last I heard, Oscar was going to have who ever worked on his tables last...open up the pockets on that table because of all the cry babbies complaining about how tight it played...LOL...I know Harry Plattis sure as hell loved playing on that table, because it made it hard as hell for someone to just come in and rob him at one pockets...LMAO
Sadly I can't watch the stream as I'm a lightweight and go to bed at 9pm (2 year old and 4 month old steal some of my usual late-night abilities).
I do, however, have the cash ready for the DVD of this match. I can't freakin wait... Hey Justin, can I pre-order? lol.
I do, however, have the cash ready for the DVD of this match. I can't freakin wait... Hey Justin, can I pre-order? lol.
What size pockets do you normally play on John??
After 2,307 hits, the Poll Results are in: SVB: 62.90%; Alex: 22.98%; On the Fence: 14.11%